Holy Sh*t, We'll Actually be Good Next Year

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I'm of the opinion if you can add a top 15 player who's only 28 in his prime you do it. I think this has been a tremendous offseason for us. I'm not a title or bust guy and frankly I just don't get that mentaility given the fact that only 1 team comes away with a title every year. At some point you have to shit or get off the pot in every rebuild or else you lose your young players to a losing culture that never goes away and you trade them away or they leave in free agency.

Also this got buried in another thread, but one could argue Teague is actually a better PG offensively than Rubio because he scores both shooting the ball and getting to the line and he is a comparable playmaker to Ricky at least statistically while protecting the ball better.

"While Ricky has great raw passing skills, Teague was only behind 1.3 APG (7.8 to 9.1) and he was only 3% behind Ricky in possessions that ended in an assist (36.4 to 38.9). He also protects the ball better than Ricky (career 16.4% turnover % to Ricky's 21.2) with a higher usage rate. Teague is just a really solid PG offensively."

[Monster]

I'm still sorting all this out in my own mind. My initial reaction to the Butler deal was mixed, but I have since embraced it as an exciting step forward while also landing us a promising big man named Justin Patton.

I'm having a more difficult time with what is effectively a Rubio for Teague and a low 1st round pick swap. The pick will probably be in the 25-29 range and we have $5 less cap space to spend in free agency to beef up our disturbingly thin bench. Comparing Ricky and Teague statistically, the swap hurts us defensively and on the boards. It's not clear how much it helps offensively given the positive impact of Ricky's precise passing and extraordinarily high basketball IQ. But I do like that Teague's shooting, while not dramatically better than Ricky's, is good enough to force opponents to pay a lot more attention to him defensively than Rubio. I like that he had a pretty good TS of 57.4% last season, which ranks him #104 in the League, ahead of John Wall's 54.1%, Rubio's 53.9% and Jrue Holiday's 53.2%. He's quickly and athletic. He seems more effective in a high-paced up and down offense. But will the stubborn Thibs run that sort of offense?

I wonder why Thibs didn't make an offer to Tony Snell, who re-signed with the Bucks for only $11 million per year. Strange to pass on such a bargain price for a 26-year old athletic wing who shoots threes.

Stepping back, there's enough so far this summer to get excited about. And I tip my hat to Thibs and Layden for making fairly bold moves. I don't see any move so far that I'd put in the boneheaded category and I think the Butler deal was a smart one. Looking forward to this next and likely final significant move in free agency.

Lip a couple other things I'll mention about Teague here and keep in mind Inam not a huge Teague fan. Actually I think he is one of those under-overrated guys. I saw something about how he was a very good player in the pick and roll. He was like 85 percentile compared to Rubio who was in the 50's. Another thing that shouldn't be overlooked is Teague's extensive playoff experience and therefore actually playing on teams that were pretty good and when he was with Atlanta they played defense. As much as we love Rubio and if he did continue his progression upwards he would have likely taken a year in the playoffs to find himself to some extent. That's not dogging him it's probably what would happen. Teague will have to fit in but he has gone to war at that ramped up level. Rubionwpuld ne a key ball handler learning along with a couple young guys in Wiggins and Towns. Teague has also been very durable.

12-13 million for Snell or 16 for Redick? It might not be how that plays out but if that was the option Inwould take JJ espcially if it was just a 3 year deal. I consider him a very good player.

Some good additional points about Teague, Monster. Actually I noticed his durability. As some have mentioned, durability is a skill and an important one.

I'd take Snell at $12-13 million in a heartbeat over Redick at $16 million. Snell's much younger, longer, more athletic and a better defender. And I'd put the $4 million in cap space I save to good use.

Fair enough. I could go either way. Snell's deal could be worth 46 million btw.

Yes, but only $44 million is guaranteed and that's what matters. In any event, even at $46 million it still only $11.5 million per year. That's a bargain for a player of Tony's caliber in this NBA market. Thibs must not like him from their days together in Chicago. As I recall, one of the bones of contention between Thibs and the Bulls front office was the fact that the Bulls drafted Snell over Thibs choice. I can't recall Thibs' choice at the time.

Dieng

[Lipoli390]

I'm still sorting all this out in my own mind. My initial reaction to the Butler deal was mixed, but I have since embraced it as an exciting step forward while also landing us a promising big man named Justin Patton.

I'm having a more difficult time with what is effectively a Rubio for Teague and a low 1st round pick swap. The pick will probably be in the 25-29 range and we have $5 less cap space to spend in free agency to beef up our disturbingly thin bench. Comparing Ricky and Teague statistically, the swap hurts us defensively and on the boards. It's not clear how much it helps offensively given the positive impact of Ricky's precise passing and extraordinarily high basketball IQ. But I do like that Teague's shooting, while not dramatically better than Ricky's, is good enough to force opponents to pay a lot more attention to him defensively than Rubio. I like that he had a pretty good TS of 57.4% last season, which ranks him #104 in the League, ahead of John Wall's 54.1%, Rubio's 53.9% and Jrue Holiday's 53.2%. He's quickly and athletic. He seems more effective in a high-paced up and down offense. But will the stubborn Thibs run that sort of offense?

I wonder why Thibs didn't make an offer to Tony Snell, who re-signed with the Bucks for only $11 million per year. Strange to pass on such a bargain price for a 26-year old athletic wing who shoots threes.

Stepping back, there's enough so far this summer to get excited about. And I tip my hat to Thibs and Layden for making fairly bold moves. I don't see any move so far that I'd put in the boneheaded category and I think the Butler deal was a smart one. Looking forward to this next and likely final significant move in free agency.

Lip a couple other things I'll mention about Teague here and keep in mind Inam not a huge Teague fan. Actually I think he is one of those under-overrated guys. I saw something about how he was a very good player in the pick and roll. He was like 85 percentile compared to Rubio who was in the 50's. Another thing that shouldn't be overlooked is Teague's extensive playoff experience and therefore actually playing on teams that were pretty good and when he was with Atlanta they played defense. As much as we love Rubio and if he did continue his progression upwards he would have likely taken a year in the playoffs to find himself to some extent. That's not dogging him it's probably what would happen. Teague will have to fit in but he has gone to war at that ramped up level. Rubionwpuld ne a key ball handler learning along with a couple young guys in Wiggins and Towns. Teague has also been very durable.

12-13 million for Snell or 16 for Redick? It might not be how that plays out but if that was the option Inwould take JJ espcially if it was just a 3 year deal. I consider him a very good player.

Some good additional points about Teague, Monster. Actually I noticed his durability. As some have mentioned, durability is a skill and an important one.

I'd take Snell at $12-13 million in a heartbeat over Redick at $16 million. Snell's much younger, longer, more athletic and a better defender. And I'd put the $4 million in cap space I save to good use.

Fair enough. I could go either way. Snell's deal could be worth 46 million btw.

Yes, but only $44 million is guaranteed and that's what matters. In any event, even at $46 million it still only $11.5 million per year. That's a bargain for a player of Tony's caliber in this NBA market. Thibs must not like him from their days together in Chicago. As I recall, one of the bones of contention between Thibs and the Bulls front office was the fact that the Bulls drafted Snell over Thibs choice. I can't recall Thibs' choice at the time.

Dieng

I'm still sorting all this out in my own mind. My initial reaction to the Butler deal was mixed, but I have since embraced it as an exciting step forward while also landing us a promising big man named Justin Patton.

I'm having a more difficult time with what is effectively a Rubio for Teague and a low 1st round pick swap. The pick will probably be in the 25-29 range and we have $5 less cap space to spend in free agency to beef up our disturbingly thin bench. Comparing Ricky and Teague statistically, the swap hurts us defensively and on the boards. It's not clear how much it helps offensively given the positive impact of Ricky's precise passing and extraordinarily high basketball IQ. But I do like that Teague's shooting, while not dramatically better than Ricky's, is good enough to force opponents to pay a lot more attention to him defensively than Rubio. I like that he had a pretty good TS of 57.4% last season, which ranks him #104 in the League, ahead of John Wall's 54.1%, Rubio's 53.9% and Jrue Holiday's 53.2%. He's quickly and athletic. He seems more effective in a high-paced up and down offense. But will the stubborn Thibs run that sort of offense?

I wonder why Thibs didn't make an offer to Tony Snell, who re-signed with the Bucks for only $11 million per year. Strange to pass on such a bargain price for a 26-year old athletic wing who shoots threes.

Stepping back, there's enough so far this summer to get excited about. And I tip my hat to Thibs and Layden for making fairly bold moves. I don't see any move so far that I'd put in the boneheaded category and I think the Butler deal was a smart one. Looking forward to this next and likely final significant move in free agency.

Lip a couple other things I'll mention about Teague here and keep in mind Inam not a huge Teague fan. Actually I think he is one of those under-overrated guys. I saw something about how he was a very good player in the pick and roll. He was like 85 percentile compared to Rubio who was in the 50's. Another thing that shouldn't be overlooked is Teague's extensive playoff experience and therefore actually playing on teams that were pretty good and when he was with Atlanta they played defense. As much as we love Rubio and if he did continue his progression upwards he would have likely taken a year in the playoffs to find himself to some extent. That's not dogging him it's probably what would happen. Teague will have to fit in but he has gone to war at that ramped up level. Rubionwpuld ne a key ball handler learning along with a couple young guys in Wiggins and Towns. Teague has also been very durable.

12-13 million for Snell or 16 for Redick? It might not be how that plays out but if that was the option Inwould take JJ espcially if it was just a 3 year deal. I consider him a very good player.

Some good additional points about Teague, Monster. Actually I noticed his durability. As some have mentioned, durability is a skill and an important one.

I'd take Snell at $12-13 million in a heartbeat over Redick at $16 million. Snell's much younger, longer, more athletic and a better defender. And I'd put the $4 million in cap space I save to good use.

Fair enough. I could go either way. Snell's deal could be worth 46 million btw.

Yes, but only $44 million is guaranteed and that's what matters. In any event, even at $46 million it still only $11.5 million per year. That's a bargain for a player of Tony's caliber in this NBA market. Thibs must not like him from their days together in Chicago. As I recall, one of the bones of contention between Thibs and the Bulls front office was the fact that the Bulls drafted Snell over Thibs choice. I can't recall Thibs' choice at the time.

Dieng

That's right. It was Gorgui! Can't fault Thibs for being pissed about that. Interesting that Thibs has love Gorgui from the moment he arrived here and then, at the end of the season, referred to him as the Wolves most improved player last season. I wonder if it's inherent bias or just seeing the same things in Gorgui now that he saw before when he wanted to draft him.

By the way, I was talking to someone earlier today who purports to have some connection to Thibs. He said there is absolutely no chance Thibs trades Gorgui this summer or probably ever.

[Monster]

Interesting Stuff about Dieng Lip. I think it has been telling there has not been as much talk about PF when it comes to the Wolves.

I'll say this about Snell and Thibs. I don't see Thibs being a guy that is gonna punish a kid for being the guy he didn't want. He is a basketball guy and JVG said he loves developing players even if he is hard on them. I've read Bulls message boards in the past and people were pretty split about Snell when they did that trade for MCW. They were also split about how Thibs played or didn't play him etc. it wa she classic he sucked what was Thibs supposed to do or Thibs jacked him around that's why he sucked! lol I don't know what level of coach Kidd is but he has gotten some good stuff out of guys that weren't exactly highly regarded especially last season. Middleton went down and they were able to piece together Snell, Beasley and Brogdon all those guys had effective seasons and nobody was expecting all of them to be worthwhile.

I kinda wonder if Thibs has some low cost ideas for defensive wings.

[Lipoli390]

Interesting Stuff about Dieng Lip. I think it has been telling there has not been as much talk about PF when it comes to the Wolves.

I'll say this about Snell and Thibs. I don't see Thibs being a guy that is gonna punish a kid for being the guy he didn't want. He is a basketball guy and JVG said he loves developing players even if he is hard on them. I've read Bulls message boards in the past and people were pretty split about Snell when they did that trade for MCW. They were also split about how Thibs played or didn't play him etc. it wa she classic he sucked what was Thibs supposed to do or Thibs jacked him around that's why he sucked! lol I don't know what level of coach Kidd is but he has gotten some good stuff out of guys that weren't exactly highly regarded especially last season. Middleton went down and they were able to piece together Snell, Beasley and Brogdon all those guys had effective seasons and nobody was expecting all of them to be worthwhile.

I kinda wonder if Thibs has some low cost ideas for defensive wings.

I'd say that Thibs must have some low cost defensive wings in mind. He must also have some lower cost 3-point shooters in mind. I get the sense from various reports that the Wolves are pursuing Redick agressively. Meanwhile the Clippers are apparently interested in Gallo and Ingles. I haven't seen any reports suggesting the Wolves are interested in Ingles. That surprises and disappoints me.

[Monster]

Interesting Stuff about Dieng Lip. I think it has been telling there has not been as much talk about PF when it comes to the Wolves.

I'll say this about Snell and Thibs. I don't see Thibs being a guy that is gonna punish a kid for being the guy he didn't want. He is a basketball guy and JVG said he loves developing players even if he is hard on them. I've read Bulls message boards in the past and people were pretty split about Snell when they did that trade for MCW. They were also split about how Thibs played or didn't play him etc. it wa she classic he sucked what was Thibs supposed to do or Thibs jacked him around that's why he sucked! lol I don't know what level of coach Kidd is but he has gotten some good stuff out of guys that weren't exactly highly regarded especially last season. Middleton went down and they were able to piece together Snell, Beasley and Brogdon all those guys had effective seasons and nobody was expecting all of them to be worthwhile.

I kinda wonder if Thibs has some low cost ideas for defensive wings.

I'd say that Thibs must have some low cost defensive wings in mind. He must also have some lower cost 3-point shooters in mind. I get the sense from various reports that the Wolves are pursuing Redick agressively. Meanwhile the Clippers are apparently interested in Gallo and Ingles. I haven't seen any reports suggesting the Wolves are interested in Ingles. That surprises and disappoints me.

Let's see how much Ingles gets paid.

[TheFuture]

I don't get the snell love at all. Can see matching his production with a 6 mil per contract. Just wait til day 3.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Interesting Stuff about Dieng Lip. I think it has been telling there has not been as much talk about PF when it comes to the Wolves.

I'll say this about Snell and Thibs. I don't see Thibs being a guy that is gonna punish a kid for being the guy he didn't want. He is a basketball guy and JVG said he loves developing players even if he is hard on them. I've read Bulls message boards in the past and people were pretty split about Snell when they did that trade for MCW. They were also split about how Thibs played or didn't play him etc. it wa she classic he sucked what was Thibs supposed to do or Thibs jacked him around that's why he sucked! lol I don't know what level of coach Kidd is but he has gotten some good stuff out of guys that weren't exactly highly regarded especially last season. Middleton went down and they were able to piece together Snell, Beasley and Brogdon all those guys had effective seasons and nobody was expecting all of them to be worthwhile.

I kinda wonder if Thibs has some low cost ideas for defensive wings.

I'd say that Thibs must have some low cost defensive wings in mind. He must also have some lower cost 3-point shooters in mind. I get the sense from various reports that the Wolves are pursuing Redick agressively. Meanwhile the Clippers are apparently interested in Gallo and Ingles. I haven't seen any reports suggesting the Wolves are interested in Ingles. That surprises and disappoints me.

Let's see how much Ingles gets paid.

Hopefully by us despite the lack of rumors!

[Monster]

Interesting Stuff about Dieng Lip. I think it has been telling there has not been as much talk about PF when it comes to the Wolves.

I'll say this about Snell and Thibs. I don't see Thibs being a guy that is gonna punish a kid for being the guy he didn't want. He is a basketball guy and JVG said he loves developing players even if he is hard on them. I've read Bulls message boards in the past and people were pretty split about Snell when they did that trade for MCW. They were also split about how Thibs played or didn't play him etc. it wa she classic he sucked what was Thibs supposed to do or Thibs jacked him around that's why he sucked! lol I don't know what level of coach Kidd is but he has gotten some good stuff out of guys that weren't exactly highly regarded especially last season. Middleton went down and they were able to piece together Snell, Beasley and Brogdon all those guys had effective seasons and nobody was expecting all of them to be worthwhile.

I kinda wonder if Thibs has some low cost ideas for defensive wings.

I'd say that Thibs must have some low cost defensive wings in mind. He must also have some lower cost 3-point shooters in mind. I get the sense from various reports that the Wolves are pursuing Redick agressively. Meanwhile the Clippers are apparently interested in Gallo and Ingles. I haven't seen any reports suggesting the Wolves are interested in Ingles. That surprises and disappoints me.

Let's see how much Ingles gets paid.

Hopefully by us despite the lack of rumors!

I've seen reports he could get 15 per. I get why he is valued he can do a lot of stuff but that's too much money IMO.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Interesting Stuff about Dieng Lip. I think it has been telling there has not been as much talk about PF when it comes to the Wolves.

I'll say this about Snell and Thibs. I don't see Thibs being a guy that is gonna punish a kid for being the guy he didn't want. He is a basketball guy and JVG said he loves developing players even if he is hard on them. I've read Bulls message boards in the past and people were pretty split about Snell when they did that trade for MCW. They were also split about how Thibs played or didn't play him etc. it wa she classic he sucked what was Thibs supposed to do or Thibs jacked him around that's why he sucked! lol I don't know what level of coach Kidd is but he has gotten some good stuff out of guys that weren't exactly highly regarded especially last season. Middleton went down and they were able to piece together Snell, Beasley and Brogdon all those guys had effective seasons and nobody was expecting all of them to be worthwhile.

I kinda wonder if Thibs has some low cost ideas for defensive wings.

I'd say that Thibs must have some low cost defensive wings in mind. He must also have some lower cost 3-point shooters in mind. I get the sense from various reports that the Wolves are pursuing Redick agressively. Meanwhile the Clippers are apparently interested in Gallo and Ingles. I haven't seen any reports suggesting the Wolves are interested in Ingles. That surprises and disappoints me.

Let's see how much Ingles gets paid.

Hopefully by us despite the lack of rumors!

I've seen reports he could get 15 per. I get why he is valued he can do a lot of stuff but that's too much money IMO.

Whoa, that is a lot of money. I just think the guy is super versatile and gives you great three point shooting, so on a Snell-like deal, it's worth it.

Still, he's an RFA, so both the Bucks or the Jazz would probably match anyway. The whole Ingles thing has kind of been a pipe dream of mine, and I guess I should just admit it. We could sign him, and then the Jazz could wait for 3 days, then match and we'd have missed out on other opportunities.