Let's isolate on Wiggins...

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

From Butler interview in strib
"Q: You're this team's best player, Thibs calls you "MVP caliber." Are you its most talented?

A: Who, me? Hell no, Wigs is. Wigs is the most talented by far. I see him do things and I'm like wow, like how? The crazy part is that was at 40 percent. Just think if you're 80 percent or what if you just go as hard as you can, 100? Wigs is easily the most talented person on this team.

Q: Will he get there?

A: Playing with me, you've got no choice because I'm going to get on your nerves every single day until you do what I know you can do, what I expect of you, what we expect of you. Then it's going to make winning a lot easier.

Q: What could you have done with that?

A: I don't know, I don't even want to think about that because I don't got that, I don't got that. I'm going to be who I am. I'm not Wigs."

Man, I love me some Jimmy Butler. We needed everything this guy has provided for this team on and off the court. Truly an MVP candidate and I'm thrilled he plays for the team that I root for.

I think he knows in his heart that Karl-Anthony Towns is the most talented, most skilled player on the team by quite a bit. But why hype Towns up? What is there to gain? Everyone and their mother knows KAT has the goods and is a superstar in the making. Hell, it wasn't much longer than a year ago a poll came out that the majority of GM's in the NBA would start their franchise with KAT over anyone else in the league. More importantly, Towns himself knows it as well. His ego doesn't need to be stroked and defense aside -- though there has been tangible evidence of his growth on that end -- he has zero holes in his game.

No, Jimmy Butler is a smart man and a good leader. He's using this as a tactic to push Andrew Wiggins. He's letting it be known that he's going to do his part to squeeze whatever he can get out of Andrew because he sees what everyone else knew years ago -- that his potential is sky high if only he would give a shit.

That's my take on this, and I'm glad we have Butler (and Thibodeau) in Minnesota here to lead the way.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I guarantee if Wiggins was averaging something like 18 pts / 5 reb / 3 ast / 1.5 stl on 46/37/78 shooting splits and playing decent individual/team defense like he's shown capable of the past month, the entire board would be overflowing with love for the guy, and rightfully so. Not only would that be a fantastic third option, but he'd be a pretty efficient role player as well. I don't even think it's out of reach for the guy either. That's basically what I'm hoping he gets to and that's a very good NBA player still.

If he wanted to corral more rebounds and steals, I'm confident he could. If he wanted to get more easy buckets in transition, and live at the rim in the halfcourt, thus increasing his efficiency from the field, I'm confident he could. I think he has decent mechanics with his jumper, but we have yet to see actual growth from 3P-range. With the scoring options around him, and the gravitational pull he could attract from defenses if he was attacking more often, I also don't see why he couldn't get to that assist mark either. And I can't even explain the complete fallout in his free throw shooting so I basically have to hope it bounces back at some point.

What's funny is the stat line that I laid out for him is a pretty realistic one in my mind. Would any of you argue that Wiggins couldn't actually average that for the year, 3P-shooting aside? If he could, he'd be one of just 10 players doing exactly that this season, which would be very impressive.

For single seasons, played in the NBA/BAA, in the regular season, in 2017-18, requiring Rebounds Per Game >= 5 and Assists Per Game >= 3 and Points Per Game >= 18 and Steals Per Game >= 1.5, sorted by descending Win Shares

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. LeBron James
3. Jimmy Butler
4. Steph Curry
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Chris Paul
7. Victor Oladipo
8. Paul George
9. DeMarcus Cousins

Please stop me if I'm way off base, I beg you, but I don't think that's unattainable for a player as gifted as Wiggins, but he'd absolutely have to be more consistent with his energy output and a lot smarter with the basketball. That's the line I want to see him get to. And that kind of productivity would be well worth a max contract and would satisfy me as a fan of the Wolves. Now let's see it.

[Coolbreeze44]

From Butler interview in strib
"Q: You're this team's best player, Thibs calls you "MVP caliber." Are you its most talented?

A: Who, me? Hell no, Wigs is. Wigs is the most talented by far. I see him do things and I'm like wow, like how? The crazy part is that was at 40 percent. Just think if you're 80 percent or what if you just go as hard as you can, 100? Wigs is easily the most talented person on this team.

Q: Will he get there?

A: Playing with me, you've got no choice because I'm going to get on your nerves every single day until you do what I know you can do, what I expect of you, what we expect of you. Then it's going to make winning a lot easier.

Q: What could you have done with that?

A: I don't know, I don't even want to think about that because I don't got that, I don't got that. I'm going to be who I am. I'm not Wigs."

Man, I love me some Jimmy Butler. We needed everything this guy has provided for this team on and off the court. Truly an MVP candidate and I'm thrilled he plays for the team that I root for.

I think he knows in his heart that Karl-Anthony Towns is the most talented, most skilled player on the team by quite a bit. But why hype Towns up? What is there to gain? Everyone and their mother knows KAT has the goods and is a superstar in the making. Hell, it wasn't much longer than a year ago a poll came out that the majority of GM's in the NBA would start their franchise with KAT over anyone else in the league. More importantly, Towns himself knows it as well. His ego doesn't need to be stroked and defense aside -- though there has been tangible evidence of his growth on that end -- he has zero holes in his game.

No, Jimmy Butler is a smart man and a good leader. He's using this as a tactic to push Andrew Wiggins. He's letting it be known that he's going to do his part to squeeze whatever he can get out of Andrew because he sees what everyone else knew years ago -- that his potential is sky high if only he would give a shit.

That's my take on this, and I'm glad we have Butler (and Thibodeau) in Minnesota here to lead the way.

Well at least your posts aren't agenda driven. Thibs and KAT. Somehow you think you're responsible for the two of them being here, and we need to be reminded of that all the time. I'll take what Jimmy said at face value, and not try to read in some special meaning that suits your familiar narrative.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I personally called Tom Thibodeau and convinced him to go to Minnesota and I alone turned in the draft card that got Karl-Anthony Towns in a Wolves uniform. You can thank me later.

Seriously, what are you talking about? You've had an attitude with several posters here lately and I have yet to see it be justified. I enjoy your analysis and respect your opinions on the game, but I hate to see you get snarky over a discussion you don't particularly agree with. I used to do that from time to time and I think it hurt my credibility here.

[TAFKASP]

I personally called Tom Thibodeau and convinced him to go to Minnesota and I alone turned in the draft card that got Karl-Anthony Towns in a Wolves uniform. You can thank me later.

Seriously, what are you talking about? You've had an attitude with several posters here lately and I have yet to see it be justified. I enjoy your analysis and respect your opinions on the game, but I hate to see you get snarky over a discussion you don't particularly agree with. I used to do that from time to time and I think it hurt my credibility here.

If credibility is all that is at risk I guess I can be as snarky as possible!

[Coolbreeze44]

I personally called Tom Thibodeau and convinced him to go to Minnesota and I alone turned in the draft card that got Karl-Anthony Towns in a Wolves uniform. You can thank me later.

Seriously, what are you talking about? You've had an attitude with several posters here lately and I have yet to see it be justified. I enjoy your analysis and respect your opinions on the game, but I hate to see you get snarky over a discussion you don't particularly agree with. I used to do that from time to time and I think it hurt my credibility here.

Yeah, I'm grouchy. I'm a life long Vikings fan and I was just reminded that we can't have nice things. I'll get over it eventually.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

This is why the argument about wiggs will never die.

People will either see a lazy guy gifted with the physical trait of the gods that is a bust or a physically gifted wing that shows flashes of greatness. He doesnt get the benfit of doubt on anything yet all the criticisms.

Hes frustrating for both sides because he is capable of doing everything on the floor, yet he doesnt always do it.

He also doesn't have that rah rah personality people want. Hes an introvert that beats to his own drum. People prefer and will give the benfit of doubt to the extroverts.

Its half full vs half empty.

[Monster]

I guarantee if Wiggins was averaging something like 18 pts / 5 reb / 3 ast / 1.5 stl on 46/37/78 shooting splits and playing decent individual/team defense like he's shown capable of the past month, the entire board would be overflowing with love for the guy, and rightfully so. Not only would that be a fantastic third option, but he'd be a pretty efficient role player as well. I don't even think it's out of reach for the guy either. That's basically what I'm hoping he gets to and that's a very good NBA player still.

If he wanted to corral more rebounds and steals, I'm confident he could. If he wanted to get more easy buckets in transition, and live at the rim in the halfcourt, thus increasing his efficiency from the field, I'm confident he could. I think he has decent mechanics with his jumper, but we have yet to see actual growth from 3P-range. With the scoring options around him, and the gravitational pull he could attract from defenses if he was attacking more often, I also don't see why he couldn't get to that assist mark either. And I can't even explain the complete fallout in his free throw shooting so I basically have to hope it bounces back at some point.

What's funny is the stat line that I laid out for him is a pretty realistic one in my mind. Would any of you argue that Wiggins couldn't actually average that for the year, 3P-shooting aside? If he could, he'd be one of just 10 players doing exactly that this season, which would be very impressive.

For single seasons, played in the NBA/BAA, in the regular season, in 2017-18, requiring Rebounds Per Game >= 5 and Assists Per Game >= 3 and Points Per Game >= 18 and Steals Per Game >= 1.5, sorted by descending Win Shares

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. LeBron James
3. Jimmy Butler
4. Steph Curry
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Chris Paul
7. Victor Oladipo
8. Paul George
9. DeMarcus Cousins

Please stop me if I'm way off base, I beg you, but I don't think that's unattainable for a player as gifted as Wiggins, but he'd absolutely have to be more consistent with his energy output and a lot smarter with the basketball. That's the line I want to see him get to. And that kind of productivity would be well worth a max contract and would satisfy me as a fan of the Wolves. Now let's see it.

Good post on those expectations.

[Lipoli390]

I guarantee if Wiggins was averaging something like 18 pts / 5 reb / 3 ast / 1.5 stl on 46/37/78 shooting splits and playing decent individual/team defense like he's shown capable of the past month, the entire board would be overflowing with love for the guy, and rightfully so. Not only would that be a fantastic third option, but he'd be a pretty efficient role player as well. I don't even think it's out of reach for the guy either. That's basically what I'm hoping he gets to and that's a very good NBA player still.

If he wanted to corral more rebounds and steals, I'm confident he could. If he wanted to get more easy buckets in transition, and live at the rim in the halfcourt, thus increasing his efficiency from the field, I'm confident he could. I think he has decent mechanics with his jumper, but we have yet to see actual growth from 3P-range. With the scoring options around him, and the gravitational pull he could attract from defenses if he was attacking more often, I also don't see why he couldn't get to that assist mark either. And I can't even explain the complete fallout in his free throw shooting so I basically have to hope it bounces back at some point.

What's funny is the stat line that I laid out for him is a pretty realistic one in my mind. Would any of you argue that Wiggins couldn't actually average that for the year, 3P-shooting aside? If he could, he'd be one of just 10 players doing exactly that this season, which would be very impressive.

For single seasons, played in the NBA/BAA, in the regular season, in 2017-18, requiring Rebounds Per Game >= 5 and Assists Per Game >= 3 and Points Per Game >= 18 and Steals Per Game >= 1.5, sorted by descending Win Shares

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. LeBron James
3. Jimmy Butler
4. Steph Curry
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Chris Paul
7. Victor Oladipo
8. Paul George
9. DeMarcus Cousins

Please stop me if I'm way off base, I beg you, but I don't think that's unattainable for a player as gifted as Wiggins, but he'd absolutely have to be more consistent with his energy output and a lot smarter with the basketball. That's the line I want to see him get to. And that kind of productivity would be well worth a max contract and would satisfy me as a fan of the Wolves. Now let's see it.

Cam -- I think you're analysis is spot on. I agree completely that Wiggins is fully capable of the stat line you suggested. He clearly has the talent to achieve those numbers. And I agree that posters on this Board would be almost unanimously euphoric in their praise of Wiggins if he did. Since I can't see inside Andrew's heart I can't know for sure why he's fallen short so far. But I take some comfort in knowing that he's still only 22 years old and in the fact the Jimmy is here pushing him.

[Lipoli390]

From Butler interview in strib
"Q: You're this team's best player, Thibs calls you "MVP caliber." Are you its most talented?

A: Who, me? Hell no, Wigs is. Wigs is the most talented by far. I see him do things and I'm like wow, like how? The crazy part is that was at 40 percent. Just think if you're 80 percent or what if you just go as hard as you can, 100? Wigs is easily the most talented person on this team.

Q: Will he get there?

A: Playing with me, you've got no choice because I'm going to get on your nerves every single day until you do what I know you can do, what I expect of you, what we expect of you. Then it's going to make winning a lot easier.

Q: What could you have done with that?

A: I don't know, I don't even want to think about that because I don't got that, I don't got that. I'm going to be who I am. I'm not Wigs."

Wow. I love Jimmy's candor. I'm a bit surprised he didn't mention KAT as well, but instead focused exclusively on Wiggins. Does he really believe Wiggins is more talented than Towns or did he instead single out Wiggins in an effort to light a fire under him? I guess it doesn't really matter. I just like that Jimmy is focused on pushing Wiggins. He'll either break Wiggins or help turn Wiggins into the player he can be. I also like that Butler is so high on Wiggins' talent.

As I've mentioned before, a friend of mine is good friends with a former Wolves player who hangs with KG. The former Wolves player told my friend that KG said Wiggins "has no heart." I was also told by someone inside the organization that Wiggins couldn't stand KG and I'm not surprised based on KG's view of him. I can see how a guy like KG could piss off and demoralize someone like Wiggins. In contrast, I like the way Butler is dealing with Wiggins. Instead of simply dismissing Wiggins as having no heart, he publicly praises his talent and then says Wiggins will reach his potential because he is "going to get on [Andrew's] nerves every single day until he does." It's tough, but positive and tempered with a touch of humor.

That's not the first person associated with the Wolves to Say wiggins is the most talented. Jim Peterson has said numerous times.

As for KG saying what he said...Sam Mitchell a guy that had to fight for his career and played his butt off is all in on Wiggins and continues to talk up that guy. If Wiggins really was the lame guy that doesn't give a whatever Mitchell would say something he doesn't hold back. He has also said Wiggins has to be coached differently. It's been widely reported KG tore down some guys and maybe those guys weren't good but that doesn't mean his approach was the right one. Of course that doesn't mean he was a bad teammate he was probably o e of the best teammates of all time but everyone has their faults.

Which brings us back to Butler and his approach. It sounds like previously he was more like KG but I remember hearing Dwayne wade talked to him last year about how to lead. Butler uses a lot of humor and he is actually good at it. One thing I don't hear about any Wolves is that anyone is lazy and doesn't work hard in practice working on their games etc and that includes Wiggins. That likely goes a long way both for Butler and Thibs.

The fact that Sam and Thibs both seem convinced Wiggins has the heart to be great helps keep me from giving up on him.

KG was a great unselfish teammate on the court. But he was notorious as a player who alienated a lot of his teammates off the court and in the lockerroom. Butler and KG have very different personalities. And Butler strikes me as a really, really smart guy. So I trust Butler as a leader and motivator.