bleedspeed177 wrote:Taylor handed over the keys to a great foundation that Flip built and Thibs has fumbled it. Can we recover or will this be a year or 2 bounce and than back to rebuilding?
That is unfair to Thibs. Flip handed Thibs, KAT, Wiggins and Lavine. He flipped Lavine for an All NBA type player in Butler. We don't know how Kat and/or wiggins would have developed under Flip. We have to remember Flip was even more of a long 2 specialist in his offensive theory so I have no idea how he would have been under Flip. Also Who knows if Kat would be any better or worse.
You failed to mention Dunn ( a year removed from being the #5 pick, most people thought was a ROY candidate, but Tibs helped kill his value) and the #8 pick was including in that trade. It you look around the league, that's a lot to give up for a disgruntled super star. I'm not bashing the trade but just pointing out Tibs had a lot of assets to make that deal. I'm not willing to give Tibs credit for making some genius trade.
Did he kill his value or was Dunn not good to begin with. He was an old rookie/2nd year player and once again the Bulls are worse with him on the court. I mean when Dunn is on the court the Bulls offense gets worse 1.4 pts worse (43 percentile of PG) and teams get 2 pts better with him on the court (33 percentile of PGs). Compared to Butler that teams score 10 pts less (98 percentile), 4.2% worse eFG% (95 percentile). Also a 15 pt difference overall when Butler is on the court. (98th percentile).
We got an All NBA player it is going to be hard for us to lose the trade in any way. Only if Lavine or Marrkkanen really figures it out, its even a debate. We got a damn good player.
bleedspeed177 wrote:Taylor handed over the keys to a great foundation that Flip built and Thibs has fumbled it. Can we recover or will this be a year or 2 bounce and than back to rebuilding?
That is unfair to Thibs. Flip handed Thibs, KAT, Wiggins and Lavine. He flipped Lavine for an All NBA type player in Butler. We don't know how Kat and/or wiggins would have developed under Flip. We have to remember Flip was even more of a long 2 specialist in his offensive theory so I have no idea how he would have been under Flip. Also Who knows if Kat would be any better or worse.
You failed to mention Dunn ( a year removed from being the #5 pick, most people thought was a ROY candidate, but Tibs helped kill his value) and the #8 pick was including in that trade. It you look around the league, that's a lot to give up for a disgruntled super star. I'm not bashing the trade but just pointing out Tibs had a lot of assets to make that deal. I'm not willing to give Tibs credit for making some genius trade.
Since when was Jimmy a disgruntled star? He wanted to stay in Chicago and had two years left on his deal for cheap
bleedspeed177 wrote:Taylor handed over the keys to a great foundation that Flip built and Thibs has fumbled it. Can we recover or will this be a year or 2 bounce and than back to rebuilding?
That is unfair to Thibs. Flip handed Thibs, KAT, Wiggins and Lavine. He flipped Lavine for an All NBA type player in Butler. We don't know how Kat and/or wiggins would have developed under Flip. We have to remember Flip was even more of a long 2 specialist in his offensive theory so I have no idea how he would have been under Flip. Also Who knows if Kat would be any better or worse.
You failed to mention Dunn ( a year removed from being the #5 pick, most people thought was a ROY candidate, but Tibs helped kill his value) and the #8 pick was including in that trade. It you look around the league, that's a lot to give up for a disgruntled super star. I'm not bashing the trade but just pointing out Tibs had a lot of assets to make that deal. I'm not willing to give Tibs credit for making some genius trade.
Since when was Jimmy a disgruntled star? He wanted to stay in Chicago and had two years left on his deal for cheap
I'd say the fued with the coach and front office would qualify, it was pretty public. On top of that you had a roster that wasn't able to compete at the level he wanted. It was pretty obvious he was being moved. Actually being it was Tibs dealing with the Chicago front office drove up the price. He was rumored to be traded to the Celtics and Cavs. He was being moved.
bleedspeed177 wrote:Taylor handed over the keys to a great foundation that Flip built and Thibs has fumbled it. Can we recover or will this be a year or 2 bounce and than back to rebuilding?
That is unfair to Thibs. Flip handed Thibs, KAT, Wiggins and Lavine. He flipped Lavine for an All NBA type player in Butler. We don't know how Kat and/or wiggins would have developed under Flip. We have to remember Flip was even more of a long 2 specialist in his offensive theory so I have no idea how he would have been under Flip. Also Who knows if Kat would be any better or worse.
You failed to mention Dunn ( a year removed from being the #5 pick, most people thought was a ROY candidate, but Tibs helped kill his value) and the #8 pick was including in that trade. It you look around the league, that's a lot to give up for a disgruntled super star. I'm not bashing the trade but just pointing out Tibs had a lot of assets to make that deal. I'm not willing to give Tibs credit for making some genius trade.
Since when was Jimmy a disgruntled star? He wanted to stay in Chicago and had two years left on his deal for cheap
I'd say the fued with the coach and front office would qualify, it was pretty public. On top of that you had a roster that wasn't able to compete at the level he wanted. It was pretty obvious he was being moved. Actually being it was Tibs dealing with the Chicago front office drove up the price. He was rumored to be traded to the Celtics and Cavs. He was being moved.
Just how low was it before he became disgruntled AND Thibs got jobbed by his former team and the bidding wars started?
Because at the time of the trade, it was a near-unanimous consensus that the Wolves came out ahead.
If I turned the conversation into a debate about who won the trade that wasn't my intention. My objective to to point out the significant assets used to acquire Butler after two contenders, Cleveland and Boston chose not to pursue Butler in a trade.
