Playing for Thibs

[Coolbreeze44]

Great to hear from you LST. I still agree on Ollie, he can be an excellent NBA coach. But the stigma from his college experience will probably have him becoming an assistant first. Chris Collins would be another i could get behind.

[Monster]

Hi guys. Thibs' absurd coaching forced me to take a break from the team (and this board), but I decided to check in with the playoffs looming. Good to see that board opinion about Thibs has turned decidedly negative. I became so disgusted with Thibs' poor coaching that I gave away all my tickets since January, with the exception of the Clippers game since a friend of mine from LA was visiting. I decided during that game that Thibs has completely lost his mind. I don't know if this was discussed here, but that was the game where Doc Rivers threw in the towel with over 5 minutes to go, and Thibs still left his starters on the floor until the final minute...insane! And now we see Butler hurt (and saying he was playing 40 MPG with a sore knee) and NBA vets Teague and Gibson publicly calling out their coach for not playing his bench. On top of that, we see the chart that shows how Thibs designs his defense to defend the long 2 and to allow 3's and shots in the paint...really???? I've had it...this guy needs to go. Now.

And the inventory of college coaches who could probably squeeze another 7-8 wins out of this team (while also protecting our stars' health) has never been stronger. I'm not a fan of Calipari (great recruiter, poor coach), but several other names intrigue me.

Kevin Ollie: Yes, UConn let him go because of undisclosed recruiting violations, but does that have any impact on how he would coach an NBA team? Just read Durant's and Westbrook's quotes about how Ollie turned around the culture in OkC, and you will begin to salivate over what he could do with KAT, Wig et al.

Tony Bennett: Like his dad, this guy is a basketball savant, and always seems to overachieve.

Jay Wright: What's not to like?

Eric Musselman: You can point to his sub-par record with the Warriors and the Kings, but he inherited horrible rosters and I would argue he overachieved. And his players would run through a brick wall for him. Plus, getting to gawk at his gorgeous wife on the sidelines would be great for ticket sales.

Chris Collins: Terrific pedigree and another overachiever.

Gregg Marshall: Why does he stay in Wichita? Added benefit? Halftime shows from his buddy Bruce Hornsby.

Buzz Williams: The guy flat out understands defense, unlike the Barking Ogre.

James Jones: The Yale coach's name seems to come up more in more for his basketball acumen and ability to motivate.

Come on, Glen...I know for sure that you are not happy with your coach's demeanor and performance. Learn from the Boston experiment with Brad Stephens, and correct the blunder you made two years ago and hire one of the guys listed above. Don't waste this window of opportunity that this roster has right now.

Welcome back LST...well I'm not sure how happy you are to be back. :) regardless good to hear from you.

For every Brad Stevens there are a number of guys that haven't made it. I agree with Lip Cal might be more interested now in the NBA than ever with possible changes looming. I think he might be a good coach for a young team but I don't have much confidence in him being the guy when it comes to the playoffs.

The idea of Jay Wright is probably the most intriguing. I'm still not quite convinced on any of these guys though. I like you brought up Musselman.

If you want to discuss leaving starters in when the game is over look no farther than the possible winner of COY in Houston and ask the same thing. It's honestly bizarre.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Eric Musselman sort of got railroaded out of the NBA, right? I know there was an untimely DUI deal.

But as LST noted, it can be argued that his teams largely overachieved in the NBA. He has an NBA pedigree. And he knows the young kids, apparently, too.

Plus, he's probably still young enough -- and hungry enough -- to be flexible in how he approaches/studies the game?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

As someone mentioned earlier, WFT came out of that sabbatical he took!? I thought that was supposed to be a mind-opening process, yet he's only become more like the caricature in Chicago.

In his defense, the Wolves' schedule has eased considerably these last couple of weeks with some long breaks between games. Still, if the players are speaking up about their minutes load, that's a problem.

[Monster]

As someone mentioned earlier, WFT came out of that sabbatical he took!? I thought that was supposed to be a mind-opening process, yet he's only become more like the caricature in Chicago.

In his defense, the Wolves' schedule has eased considerably these last couple of weeks with some long breaks between games. Still, if the players are speaking up about their minutes load, that's a problem.

The problem more people had with Thibs than his minutes in Chicago (note a bunch of guys played high minutes for Del Negro and Hoiberg as well) was his practices were brutal. It's been widely reported he takes it easy on guys and has given them days off when I'm guess he would have drilled the heck out of guys. I've wondered if taking it easy in practices has eliminated a bit of his advantage as a coach and maybe he hasn't been able to adjust to that aspect of change yet. His in game coaching sounds like it's pretty similar except he has dialed back the Thins theatrics but obviously it's still a lot.

The players speaking up about minutes is either troubling or encouraging or...it could be both! I've often wondered if Thins keeps things the same as much as possible and tries to have players force his hand either by their play (good or bad) or vet players speaking up and communicating he should do something different (don't put me in that guy is playing well) or (this dude can really play you gotta get him in there). I think that theory may still have some validity but it really did seem bizarre to not give some opportunity to bench guys after they did some good things even if it was in garbage time in that Philly game. The narrative reads like this is Thibs show and that there is limited input from players. How much of a partnership is this thing? Idk I'd be shocked if Thibs was not asking for any feedback but is there not enough of that type of communication and then actually action that shows you value those interactions? It's difficult to really know without having someone that's there with him and re team on a daily basis.

One thing I think could make Thibs look at more of what he could do this offseason is he brought in Taj, Butler and Teague plus even a vet like Crawford and it didn't fix a lot of things. He can't blame failings on youth etc. I hope he does something like Zimmer who talked to some of his trusted vets and got some feedback on what he could do better.

I also wonder if he needs a change of another assistant coach or give even more responsibility to some young up and coming one. Assistants matter and I'm not suggesting any of the assistants suck but at times it just feels like something is missing there. Maybe one guy with different strengths and weaknesses added to the mix could make a difference.

[Lipoli390]

Hi guys. Thibs' absurd coaching forced me to take a break from the team (and this board), but I decided to check in with the playoffs looming. Good to see that board opinion about Thibs has turned decidedly negative. I became so disgusted with Thibs' poor coaching that I gave away all my tickets since January, with the exception of the Clippers game since a friend of mine from LA was visiting. I decided during that game that Thibs has completely lost his mind. I don't know if this was discussed here, but that was the game where Doc Rivers threw in the towel with over 5 minutes to go, and Thibs still left his starters on the floor until the final minute...insane! And now we see Butler hurt (and saying he was playing 40 MPG with a sore knee) and NBA vets Teague and Gibson publicly calling out their coach for not playing his bench. On top of that, we see the chart that shows how Thibs designs his defense to defend the long 2 and to allow 3's and shots in the paint...really???? I've had it...this guy needs to go. Now.

And the inventory of college coaches who could probably squeeze another 7-8 wins out of this team (while also protecting our stars' health) has never been stronger. I'm not a fan of Calipari (great recruiter, poor coach), but several other names intrigue me.

Kevin Ollie: Yes, UConn let him go because of undisclosed recruiting violations, but does that have any impact on how he would coach an NBA team? Just read Durant's and Westbrook's quotes about how Ollie turned around the culture in OkC, and you will begin to salivate over what he could do with KAT, Wig et al.

Tony Bennett: Like his dad, this guy is a basketball savant, and always seems to overachieve.

Jay Wright: What's not to like?

Eric Musselman: You can point to his sub-par record with the Warriors and the Kings, but he inherited horrible rosters and I would argue he overachieved. And his players would run through a brick wall for him. Plus, getting to gawk at his gorgeous wife on the sidelines would be great for ticket sales.

Chris Collins: Terrific pedigree and another overachiever.

Gregg Marshall: Why does he stay in Wichita? Added benefit? Halftime shows from his buddy Bruce Hornsby.

Buzz Williams: The guy flat out understands defense, unlike the Barking Ogre.

James Jones: The Yale coach's name seems to come up more in more for his basketball acumen and ability to motivate.

Come on, Glen...I know for sure that you are not happy with your coach's demeanor and performance. Learn from the Boston experiment with Brad Stephens, and correct the blunder you made two years ago and hire one of the guys listed above. Don't waste this window of opportunity that this roster has right now.

So great to have you back, LST!! I've felt awfully alone in my view of Thibs while you were on sabbatical from this Board. I really like your list of potential replacements. I'd be inclined to take any of them over Thibs, but I'll need to dig deeper.

Several questions: First, who would be your first choice from your list? Second, what would you estimate the percentage chance that Glen replaces Thibs this summer and to what extent will it depend on how well the Wolves do in these final 6 games? Third, who do you think Glen will consult with and listen to in deciding whether to let Thibs go? Finally, is there anything I can do as a long-time season ticket holder to influence Glen's decision?

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Hi guys. Thibs' absurd coaching forced me to take a break from the team (and this board), but I decided to check in with the playoffs looming. Good to see that board opinion about Thibs has turned decidedly negative. I became so disgusted with Thibs' poor coaching that I gave away all my tickets since January, with the exception of the Clippers game since a friend of mine from LA was visiting. I decided during that game that Thibs has completely lost his mind. I don't know if this was discussed here, but that was the game where Doc Rivers threw in the towel with over 5 minutes to go, and Thibs still left his starters on the floor until the final minute...insane! And now we see Butler hurt (and saying he was playing 40 MPG with a sore knee) and NBA vets Teague and Gibson publicly calling out their coach for not playing his bench. On top of that, we see the chart that shows how Thibs designs his defense to defend the long 2 and to allow 3's and shots in the paint...really???? I've had it...this guy needs to go. Now.

And the inventory of college coaches who could probably squeeze another 7-8 wins out of this team (while also protecting our stars' health) has never been stronger. I'm not a fan of Calipari (great recruiter, poor coach), but several other names intrigue me.

Kevin Ollie: Yes, UConn let him go because of undisclosed recruiting violations, but does that have any impact on how he would coach an NBA team? Just read Durant's and Westbrook's quotes about how Ollie turned around the culture in OkC, and you will begin to salivate over what he could do with KAT, Wig et al.

Tony Bennett: Like his dad, this guy is a basketball savant, and always seems to overachieve.

Jay Wright: What's not to like?

Eric Musselman: You can point to his sub-par record with the Warriors and the Kings, but he inherited horrible rosters and I would argue he overachieved. And his players would run through a brick wall for him. Plus, getting to gawk at his gorgeous wife on the sidelines would be great for ticket sales.

Chris Collins: Terrific pedigree and another overachiever.

Gregg Marshall: Why does he stay in Wichita? Added benefit? Halftime shows from his buddy Bruce Hornsby.

Buzz Williams: The guy flat out understands defense, unlike the Barking Ogre.

James Jones: The Yale coach's name seems to come up more in more for his basketball acumen and ability to motivate.

Come on, Glen...I know for sure that you are not happy with your coach's demeanor and performance. Learn from the Boston experiment with Brad Stephens, and correct the blunder you made two years ago and hire one of the guys listed above. Don't waste this window of opportunity that this roster has right now.

So great to have you back, LST!! I've felt awfully alone in my view of Thibs while you were on sabbatical from this Board. I really like your list of potential replacements. I'd be inclined to take any of them over Thibs, but I'll need to dig deeper.

Several questions: First, who would be your first choice from your list? Second, what would you estimate the percentage chance that Glen replaces Thibs this summer and to what extent will it depend on how well the Wolves do in these final 6 games? Third, who do you think Glen will consult with and listen to in deciding whether to let Thibs go? Finally, is there anything I can do as a long-time season ticket holder to influence Glen's decision?

Great questions, Lip (and based on a quick read of a few threads here, you're far from alone in your thoughts about Thibs...seems like the majority has turned against him in the last month).

My first choice isn't on the list because he's got a 10 year contract at Kansas, but I think Bill Self may be the best coach in college basketball today...brilliant offense, tough defense coach, and inspirational to his players. But he's not leaving Kansas. I don't know the contract status of my other choices, but I'm sure all would love to exit the year-round job of recruiting high school kids and coach this Wolves' roster. My first choice is Ollie...Glen knows him well, and I would trust him to determine whether Ollie's recruiting violations are the kind of thing that indicate a character deficiency. I'm guessing they do not. I'm intrigued by Musselman because he seems like a superb motivational coach who gets the most out of his players, and always sounds basketball-smart in his interviews. But now that I think about it, it would be tough to pass on a guy like Bennett...I love the way his Virginia teams play basketball. But having said all that, I agree that anybody on the list would be an upgrade over what we have seen the past two years.

I have it from a very reliable (second-hand) source that Glen is quite unhappy with Thibs. Glen looks and seems like a nebbish, but he has a very good understanding of the game and recognizes what many of us see about Thibs' deficiencies. However, my source says there is almost no chance Glen will let Thibs go if they make the playoffs (and right now I have them at 48 wins and a 5 seed against the Pelicans). Glen thinks he can influence Thibs (he believes that the private spanking he gave Thibs last fall about his sideline behavior has had a positive impact (I agree, at least during home games when Glen is there :)) So I would say that barring a complete collapse where SAS and Denver sneak into the 7 and 8 spots (I think the Clippers will make it BTW), there is only a 5% chance of a new coach this fall. (If they do falter and fall out of the playoff picture, I give it at least a 75% chance of firing him). As for who Glen listens to, I honestly have no idea since Flip died. I can tell you that he only listens to his minority owners on business and financial matters.

Finally, I like your question about what a long-time season ticket holder can do. Have you talked with your season ticket rep to see if he can help you? Glen is a basketball nut, and if you can get to him with some solid data (things like what an outlier Thibs is in using his bench and designing an offense around the 3-pointer, and especially data from that article that appeared in another thread last week about how his defensive scheme is exactly the opposite of what a defense should be in today's NBA), I think it would help Glen make a move...but only if they miss the playoffs.

I'm going to end my attendance boycott and go to a few games in the playoffs because I'm playoff-hungry (BTW, I think they could beat the Pelicans if Butler is healthy), but I don't plan to watch any more games before the playoffs either live or on TV...Thibs has taken the fun out of this team for me.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

https://www.mnspn.com/jon-krawczynski-s-you-betcha-basket

alot of insight into the thibs regime and what actual went on about the thibs and rubio relationship.

got to admit, im liking teague a little bit more.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

?The Wolves' defense has improved among its best players and will be fine if they can find a better backup wing player this off-season. Leaguewide, defensive ratings range from the Celtics (101.2) to the Suns (110.8 ). The Wolves overall are near the bottom, 26th, at 108.9. Their improvement from last season lies in how their starters do against other team's starters. Last year's Wolves starters were at 109.7. Their second most used group (starters after LaVine's injury, with Brandon Rush) wasn't a lot better (108.3). This year's full-strength starters are down to 104.3, closer to the top of the league than the bottom. Sub Bjelica in for Jimmy and it's still okay (105.1). Sub in Tyus for Teague and it's ridiculously good (94.9). Wolves young starters seem to be improving on defense. The problems defensively stem from Jamal, who was never known for defense and is now 38-years old. The stats are pretty damning on this. Crawford's overall defensive rating is 113.8, substantially worse than the league's worst defense. He staggers in with the starters more than other bench players and the results defensively have been catastrophic. Jimmy's rating without Jamal is 102.7 -- extremely good. With Jamal, it balloons to 115.2. KAT without Jamal is a respectable 105.5. With Jamal, however, it's 115.0. Wig sans Crawford is 105.2. With him, it goes up to 115.6. And so on and so on. Replacing those minutes with a league-average defender would have the Wolves overall defense somewhere around middle of the pack, maybe slightly better than that. ?

Removing Crawford from this team would make us better by subtraction. Acquiring a capable wing to replace him via free agency, trade, and/or trade would do wonders for this team next season.

[thedoper]

?The Wolves' defense has improved among its best players and will be fine if they can find a better backup wing player this off-season. Leaguewide, defensive ratings range from the Celtics (101.2) to the Suns (110.8 ). The Wolves overall are near the bottom, 26th, at 108.9. Their improvement from last season lies in how their starters do against other team's starters. Last year's Wolves starters were at 109.7. Their second most used group (starters after LaVine's injury, with Brandon Rush) wasn't a lot better (108.3). This year's full-strength starters are down to 104.3, closer to the top of the league than the bottom. Sub Bjelica in for Jimmy and it's still okay (105.1). Sub in Tyus for Teague and it's ridiculously good (94.9). Wolves young starters seem to be improving on defense. The problems defensively stem from Jamal, who was never known for defense and is now 38-years old. The stats are pretty damning on this. Crawford's overall defensive rating is 113.8, substantially worse than the league's worst defense. He staggers in with the starters more than other bench players and the results defensively have been catastrophic. Jimmy's rating without Jamal is 102.7 -- extremely good. With Jamal, it balloons to 115.2. KAT without Jamal is a respectable 105.5. With Jamal, however, it's 115.0. Wig sans Crawford is 105.2. With him, it goes up to 115.6. And so on and so on. Replacing those minutes with a league-average defender would have the Wolves overall defense somewhere around middle of the pack, maybe slightly better than that. ?

Removing Crawford from this team would make us better by subtraction. Acquiring a capable wing to replace him via free agency, trade, and/or trade would do wonders for this team next season.

This was a point I was trying to make earlier this season too. Thank you for parsing it out so clearly.

The real issue with this team is overall depth. Once we got our 3rd star our back was against the wall. We have this offseason to make some savvy moves, let's hope Thibs can figure it out.