monsterpile wrote:I'm glad Thibs is coaching this team I guess. This team shot 58% from the field shot 32 threes and had 30 assists and people are complaining about offense?
Those morons on TNT were going on and on and on about don't shoot 3's get in the post. Stupid. Why would you put Towns in the post against Bogut who is still a good defender down there? Let Towns shoot 50 3's on Bogut if he basically leaves him open. I'm not suggesting don't post up but take the mismatches that are out there. It's not like Taj doesn't school people down low or anything.
This seems like the perfect thing to have a link to after this broadcast.
You're right about Towns taking 3's. I'm happy if he takes as many as he wants. He shoots a good percentage.
Of course it depends on who is guarding him too, I mean, he can't be stopped down low either against smaller guys. But many nights, the big is often times taller and bigger then Towns. Stretching them out is great.
But at the same time, the slow offense is annoying, and many times results in late shot jack ups. The offense could be better if they pushed it, like when Tyus is in the game. Why not try and get an easy layup or wide open corner three?
Just letting the defense set up all the time is annoying. They also said Wiggins is made for fast transition game, that is true as well. Wiggins game is the best when he is driving and finishing around the hoop. His weakness is in set offense.
I really think people overrate Tyus effect on pace of the offense. Why?
1. Some numbers simply don't support it. Teague has a much higher rating when it comes to PACE. Tyus often takes plenty of time to dribble the ball up the court. There are plenty of times Teague is up the court and 3 guys jog in behind him.
2. Often Tyus doesn't even bring up the ball it's either Crawford or Butler. He actually has the lowest usuage on the team.
Now if you want to say the ball moves better once the offense starts with Tyus that I could agree with. Should Tyus have a higher usuage? Worthwhile question.
Guess what top level team tends to have one of the slowest Pace numbers in the league the last couple years? Yep the Spurs. Nobody wants to be that team right? If the Wolves actually keep getting better on D they will likely get more of those easy baskets. They are 4th in points off turnovers already, 4th in points in the paint and 4th in 2nd chance points. This team already find plenty of ways to get easy buckets. Should they push it more? Sure I wouldn't mind a seeing it. They are 19th in fast break points. I'm more interested to see if they can clean up allowing easy buckets that way which is part of their problem defensively.
Do we have the outlet passer that we had in Love and Rubio? The team is better now, but I always loved seeing those 3/4 court passes for the dunk. We also seem to be having trouble lobbing the ball for dunks.
We really don't have the personnel to push the pace and play high pace games. Teague and Butler just aren't Harden/CP3 or the Warriors who usually have 5 guys who can rebound and push the ball. Wiggins isn't a ball handler so having him dribble from even half-court isn't a great option to get to the rim. We know Taj can't run all game long and Towns isn't a superfreak athlete himself when it comes to general foot speed. We also aren't a highly efficient offense so pushing the pace means more misses and giving up more transition points and defense just gets harder and guys take off more plays when there are more plays in general. Run and gun works when you can actually gun at a high level. We don't have efficient shooters who do it at a high volume outside of KAT. We have volume scorers who make tough shots.
The improvement needs to come from the ball movement in the half-court. Our pace matches our personnel. The looks we get do not match the talent we have. Guys just need to do more work to get better looks for their teammates and for themselves. That's our biggest opportunity for improvement. Running and gunning just isn't gonna work for this team. Heavy minutes and just a lack of top end to end player talent should be a clear signal that we shouldn't be pushing pace. We should be grinding games out, but focusing on efficiency improvements in the offense we have.
khans2k5 wrote:We really don't have the personnel to push the pace and play high pace games. Teague and Butler just aren't Harden/CP3 or the Warriors who usually have 5 guys who can rebound and push the ball. Wiggins isn't a ball handler so having him dribble from even half-court isn't a great option to get to the rim. We know Taj can't run all game long and Towns isn't a superfreak athlete himself when it comes to general foot speed. We also aren't a highly efficient offense so pushing the pace means more misses and giving up more transition points and defense just gets harder and guys take off more plays when there are more plays in general. Run and gun works when you can actually gun at a high level. We don't have efficient shooters who do it at a high volume outside of KAT. We have volume scorers who make tough shots.
The improvement needs to come from the ball movement in the half-court. Our pace matches our personnel. The looks we get do not match the talent we have. Guys just need to do more work to get better looks for their teammates and for themselves. That's our biggest opportunity for improvement. Running and gunning just isn't gonna work for this team. Heavy minutes and just a lack of top end to end player talent should be a clear signal that we shouldn't be pushing pace. We should be grinding games out, but focusing on efficiency improvements in the offense we have.
I think the bold comment is one where you would be in the extreme minority. Pushing pace and making the extra pass matches our personnel perfectly. No defense can defend us if we're doing that.
I think Thibs doesn't push the pace because of our transition D woes. Higher pace would mean more turnovers and based on our shooting, other teams could turn around and get on runs quick. Now the opponent's 10 pt runs could turn into 20. And we all know how well we play from behind.
monsterpile wrote:I'm glad Thibs is coaching this team I guess. This team shot 58% from the field shot 32 threes and had 30 assists and people are complaining about offense?
Those morons on TNT were going on and on and on about don't shoot 3's get in the post. Stupid. Why would you put Towns in the post against Bogut who is still a good defender down there? Let Towns shoot 50 3's on Bogut if he basically leaves him open. I'm not suggesting don't post up but take the mismatches that are out there. It's not like Taj doesn't school people down low or anything.
This seems like the perfect thing to have a link to after this broadcast.
You're right about Towns taking 3's. I'm happy if he takes as many as he wants. He shoots a good percentage.
Of course it depends on who is guarding him too, I mean, he can't be stopped down low either against smaller guys. But many nights, the big is often times taller and bigger then Towns. Stretching them out is great.
But at the same time, the slow offense is annoying, and many times results in late shot jack ups. The offense could be better if they pushed it, like when Tyus is in the game. Why not try and get an easy layup or wide open corner three?
Just letting the defense set up all the time is annoying. They also said Wiggins is made for fast transition game, that is true as well. Wiggins game is the best when he is driving and finishing around the hoop. His weakness is in set offense.
I really think people overrate Tyus effect on pace of the offense. Why?
1. Some numbers simply don't support it. Teague has a much higher rating when it comes to PACE. Tyus often takes plenty of time to dribble the ball up the court. There are plenty of times Teague is up the court and 3 guys jog in behind him.
2. Often Tyus doesn't even bring up the ball it's either Crawford or Butler. He actually has the lowest usuage on the team.
Now if you want to say the ball moves better once the offense starts with Tyus that I could agree with. Should Tyus have a higher usuage? Worthwhile question.
Guess what top level team tends to have one of the slowest Pace numbers in the league the last couple years? Yep the Spurs. Nobody wants to be that team right? If the Wolves actually keep getting better on D they will likely get more of those easy baskets. They are 4th in points off turnovers already, 4th in points in the paint and 4th in 2nd chance points. This team already find plenty of ways to get easy buckets. Should they push it more? Sure I wouldn't mind a seeing it. They are 19th in fast break points. I'm more interested to see if they can clean up allowing easy buckets that way which is part of their problem defensively.
Yeah, I think we might do that a little. When I'm watching a game, I find myself frustrated with the pace regardless of who is running the point. I'm with the TBS guys and those here who would like to see us push the pace a little more.
thedoper wrote:I think Thibs doesn't push the pace because of our transition D woes. Higher pace would mean more turnovers and based on our shooting, other teams could turn around and get on runs quick. Now the opponent's 10 pt runs could turn into 20. And we all know how well we play from behind.
Except that Thibs has never been one to push the pace. His teams have historically looked the same to me.
khans2k5 wrote:We really don't have the personnel to push the pace and play high pace games. Teague and Butler just aren't Harden/CP3 or the Warriors who usually have 5 guys who can rebound and push the ball. Wiggins isn't a ball handler so having him dribble from even half-court isn't a great option to get to the rim. We know Taj can't run all game long and Towns isn't a superfreak athlete himself when it comes to general foot speed. We also aren't a highly efficient offense so pushing the pace means more misses and giving up more transition points and defense just gets harder and guys take off more plays when there are more plays in general. Run and gun works when you can actually gun at a high level. We don't have efficient shooters who do it at a high volume outside of KAT. We have volume scorers who make tough shots.
The improvement needs to come from the ball movement in the half-court. Our pace matches our personnel. The looks we get do not match the talent we have. Guys just need to do more work to get better looks for their teammates and for themselves. That's our biggest opportunity for improvement. Running and gunning just isn't gonna work for this team. Heavy minutes and just a lack of top end to end player talent should be a clear signal that we shouldn't be pushing pace. We should be grinding games out, but focusing on efficiency improvements in the offense we have.
I think the bold comment is one where you would be in the extreme minority. Pushing pace and making the extra pass matches our personnel perfectly. No defense can defend us if we're doing that.
So what is your push the pace strategy that matches our personnel? From the defensive rebound to the finish on the other end. The only guy we have that can do it from end to end is Jimmy. Teague can't finish around the rim that well. There's a reason he finishes with floaters so often and not true layups. Wiggins can't dribble more than 1 or 2 at a time. Gibson can't run and Towns can't rebound and get up the court fast enough. It requires ball handlers who can finish in traffic or make he right pass. If Teague can't finish in traffic and Wiggins can't even dribble the ball up the court, how is your pushing the pace going to work consistently?
khans2k5 wrote:We really don't have the personnel to push the pace and play high pace games. Teague and Butler just aren't Harden/CP3 or the Warriors who usually have 5 guys who can rebound and push the ball. Wiggins isn't a ball handler so having him dribble from even half-court isn't a great option to get to the rim. We know Taj can't run all game long and Towns isn't a superfreak athlete himself when it comes to general foot speed. We also aren't a highly efficient offense so pushing the pace means more misses and giving up more transition points and defense just gets harder and guys take off more plays when there are more plays in general. Run and gun works when you can actually gun at a high level. We don't have efficient shooters who do it at a high volume outside of KAT. We have volume scorers who make tough shots.
The improvement needs to come from the ball movement in the half-court. Our pace matches our personnel. The looks we get do not match the talent we have. Guys just need to do more work to get better looks for their teammates and for themselves. That's our biggest opportunity for improvement. Running and gunning just isn't gonna work for this team. Heavy minutes and just a lack of top end to end player talent should be a clear signal that we shouldn't be pushing pace. We should be grinding games out, but focusing on efficiency improvements in the offense we have.
I think the bold comment is one where you would be in the extreme minority. Pushing pace and making the extra pass matches our personnel perfectly. No defense can defend us if we're doing that.
So what is your push the pace strategy that matches our personnel? From the defensive rebound to the finish on the other end. The only guy we have that can do it from end to end is Jimmy. Teague can't finish around the rim that well. There's a reason he finishes with floaters so often and not true layups. Wiggins can't dribble more than 1 or 2 at a time. Gibson can't run and Towns can't rebound and get up the court fast enough. It requires ball handlers who can finish in traffic or make he right pass. If Teague can't finish in traffic and Wiggins can't even dribble the ball up the court, how is your pushing the pace going to work consistently?
My idea of pushing the pace doesn't require much dribbling. In fact the ball shouldn't touch the floor much at all. You push the pace by passing and running the court. You force the defense to be reactive instead of being able to set up and dictate flow. You finish by making the extra pass. I coach a long way from the NBA level, but my system has played well as the game has changed.
