Q12543 wrote:I'm not so sure we have the personnel to run. And I'm talking about stylistically, not athletically.
When has Butler ever been a guy that sprints down the court? Very rare. He's a grinder in every sense of the word. He is very methodical, which can actually be frustrating at times as it seems like plays take too long to develop and he's often the guy that is behind it all. But part of his success is his patience. It's just who he is and I don't see how that is going to change.
Teague....I think he's capable of pushing the pace, but it's not really his M.O. Only a couple of seasons he's been on a squad that has been upper half in pace of play. And he's the starting PG!
Wiggins....He's a loper, not a sprinter. He's very tough to stop when he is going down hill on the fast break, but the guy rarely puts out the effort to go full bore.
KAT....he could definitely thrive in an uptempo offense, but since he doesn't handle the ball and is usually the guy getting the defensive rebound, he can't do much himself to change the tempo.
Gibson.....He's a grinder, like Butler.
We aren't designed to be a pace and space team. That's not to say we shouldn't try to push it (and in fact I often hear Thibs bellowing, "Go! Go! Go!" off defensive rebounds), but I just don't think it's a fundamental habit ingrained in most of our players' games.
Q -- You might be right that we don't have the personnel to run. But we have the personnel to move with and without the ball in the half court far more than we have been. The stationary isolation style we play seems intentional as the style Thibs coaches. As for pace, I still think we can get up the court faster than we do and that we'd be far more effective if we did. But my main issue with with the lack of movement in our half-court offense.
Again it's worthwhile to ask is the last of movement just coaching or is it on the player's as well. I'm not giving Thibs a pass here but really I don't think of some of these guys as ones who really move without the ball well etc. Thibs absolutely needs to be better about getting more out of them but I do think some of this is actually because of the players on the roster. Towns being so much better in the screen game lately helps. It's easy to miss Lavine's level of movement plus his ability to shoot. I wish we had even a Wayne Ellington type off the bench. We don't really have a guy that can work off screens and fire shots. We need to sign/draft/develop some shooting. How long have we been saying this? Lol
Q12543 wrote:I'm not so sure we have the personnel to run. And I'm talking about stylistically, not athletically.
When has Butler ever been a guy that sprints down the court? Very rare. He's a grinder in every sense of the word. He is very methodical, which can actually be frustrating at times as it seems like plays take too long to develop and he's often the guy that is behind it all. But part of his success is his patience. It's just who he is and I don't see how that is going to change.
Teague....I think he's capable of pushing the pace, but it's not really his M.O. Only a couple of seasons he's been on a squad that has been upper half in pace of play. And he's the starting PG!
Wiggins....He's a loper, not a sprinter. He's very tough to stop when he is going down hill on the fast break, but the guy rarely puts out the effort to go full bore.
KAT....he could definitely thrive in an uptempo offense, but since he doesn't handle the ball and is usually the guy getting the defensive rebound, he can't do much himself to change the tempo.
Gibson.....He's a grinder, like Butler.
We aren't designed to be a pace and space team. That's not to say we shouldn't try to push it (and in fact I often hear Thibs bellowing, "Go! Go! Go!" off defensive rebounds), but I just don't think it's a fundamental habit ingrained in most of our players' games.
Q -- You might be right that we don't have the personnel to run. But we have the personnel to move with and without the ball in the half court far more than we have been. The stationary isolation style we play seems intentional as the style Thibs coaches. As for pace, I still think we can get up the court faster than we do and that we'd be far more effective if we did. But my main issue with with the lack of movement in our half-court offense.
Again it's worthwhile to ask is the last of movement just coaching or is it on the player's as well. I'm not giving Thibs a pass here but really I don't think of some of these guys as ones who really move without the ball well etc. Thibs absolutely needs to be better about getting more out of them but I do think some of this is actually because of the players on the roster. Towns being so much better in the screen game lately helps. It's easy to miss Lavine's level of movement plus his ability to shoot. I wish we had even a Wayne Ellington type off the bench. We don't really have a guy that can work off screens and fire shots. We need to sign/draft/develop some shooting. How long have we been saying this? Lol
I think your question is a good one, Monster. It's hard to know how much is coaching and how much is personnel. I do think we miss LaVine's 3-point shooting and movement off the ball. He really was active off the ball as I used to note in my game reports last season.
Q12543 wrote:I'm not so sure we have the personnel to run. And I'm talking about stylistically, not athletically.
When has Butler ever been a guy that sprints down the court? Very rare. He's a grinder in every sense of the word. He is very methodical, which can actually be frustrating at times as it seems like plays take too long to develop and he's often the guy that is behind it all. But part of his success is his patience. It's just who he is and I don't see how that is going to change.
Teague....I think he's capable of pushing the pace, but it's not really his M.O. Only a couple of seasons he's been on a squad that has been upper half in pace of play. And he's the starting PG!
Wiggins....He's a loper, not a sprinter. He's very tough to stop when he is going down hill on the fast break, but the guy rarely puts out the effort to go full bore.
KAT....he could definitely thrive in an uptempo offense, but since he doesn't handle the ball and is usually the guy getting the defensive rebound, he can't do much himself to change the tempo.
Gibson.....He's a grinder, like Butler.
We aren't designed to be a pace and space team. That's not to say we shouldn't try to push it (and in fact I often hear Thibs bellowing, "Go! Go! Go!" off defensive rebounds), but I just don't think it's a fundamental habit ingrained in most of our players' games.
Q -- You might be right that we don't have the personnel to run. But we have the personnel to move with and without the ball in the half court far more than we have been. The stationary isolation style we play seems intentional as the style Thibs coaches. As for pace, I still think we can get up the court faster than we do and that we'd be far more effective if we did. But my main issue with with the lack of movement in our half-court offense.
Again it's worthwhile to ask is the last of movement just coaching or is it on the player's as well. I'm not giving Thibs a pass here but really I don't think of some of these guys as ones who really move without the ball well etc. Thibs absolutely needs to be better about getting more out of them but I do think some of this is actually because of the players on the roster. Towns being so much better in the screen game lately helps. It's easy to miss Lavine's level of movement plus his ability to shoot. I wish we had even a Wayne Ellington type off the bench. We don't really have a guy that can work off screens and fire shots. We need to sign/draft/develop some shooting. How long have we been saying this? Lol
I think your question is a good one, Monster. It's hard to know how much is coaching and how much is personnel. I do think we miss LaVine's 3-point shooting and movement off the ball. He really was active off the ball as I used to note in my game reports last season.
I think most of it is coaching. Ellington is shooting an absurd amount of 3's per minutes, historically high. He's shooting a high percentage so that makes it easier to give him the green light. I think it's coaching and putting a system in place to let players play and excel. The pressure Ellington puts on defense immense. It's not in Tibs DNA to play or coach that way.
Q12543 wrote:I'm not so sure we have the personnel to run. And I'm talking about stylistically, not athletically.
When has Butler ever been a guy that sprints down the court? Very rare. He's a grinder in every sense of the word. He is very methodical, which can actually be frustrating at times as it seems like plays take too long to develop and he's often the guy that is behind it all. But part of his success is his patience. It's just who he is and I don't see how that is going to change.
Teague....I think he's capable of pushing the pace, but it's not really his M.O. Only a couple of seasons he's been on a squad that has been upper half in pace of play. And he's the starting PG!
Wiggins....He's a loper, not a sprinter. He's very tough to stop when he is going down hill on the fast break, but the guy rarely puts out the effort to go full bore.
KAT....he could definitely thrive in an uptempo offense, but since he doesn't handle the ball and is usually the guy getting the defensive rebound, he can't do much himself to change the tempo.
Gibson.....He's a grinder, like Butler.
We aren't designed to be a pace and space team. That's not to say we shouldn't try to push it (and in fact I often hear Thibs bellowing, "Go! Go! Go!" off defensive rebounds), but I just don't think it's a fundamental habit ingrained in most of our players' games.
Q -- You might be right that we don't have the personnel to run. But we have the personnel to move with and without the ball in the half court far more than we have been. The stationary isolation style we play seems intentional as the style Thibs coaches. As for pace, I still think we can get up the court faster than we do and that we'd be far more effective if we did. But my main issue with with the lack of movement in our half-court offense.
Again it's worthwhile to ask is the last of movement just coaching or is it on the player's as well. I'm not giving Thibs a pass here but really I don't think of some of these guys as ones who really move without the ball well etc. Thibs absolutely needs to be better about getting more out of them but I do think some of this is actually because of the players on the roster. Towns being so much better in the screen game lately helps. It's easy to miss Lavine's level of movement plus his ability to shoot. I wish we had even a Wayne Ellington type off the bench. We don't really have a guy that can work off screens and fire shots. We need to sign/draft/develop some shooting. How long have we been saying this? Lol
I think your question is a good one, Monster. It's hard to know how much is coaching and how much is personnel. I do think we miss LaVine's 3-point shooting and movement off the ball. He really was active off the ball as I used to note in my game reports last season.
I think most of it is coaching. Ellington is shooting an absurd amount of 3's per minutes, historically high. He's shooting a high percentage so that makes it easier to give him the green light. I think it's coaching and putting a system in place to let players play and excel. The pressure Ellington puts on defense immense. It's not in Tibs DNA to play or coach that way.
Lets remember Thibs system and organization as a whole is less than 2 years in. Ellington has taken his shooting game to a new level espcially last year with the heat as he shots much more on the move than in past years. The Heat are a good organization and Spolstra is a very good coach. Maybe Thibs and Layden don't have it but I don't think we can say that yet. We need to have more time for them to build things.
