Thibs Criticism

[Monster]

Wow....this board certainly has become jaded on the Thibs topic. The guy simply can't win.

If we win, it isn't by enough, and/or it was complete luck. But when we lose, it is 100% driven by Thibs and his "style". Despite the fact that we have the 7th best record in the entire NBA.

I get the frustration in some aspects of the game, but by the sounds of it, we have about 3-4 guys on this board that should be getting paid about $5MM+ to coach in the NBA. They obviously understand the NBA game much more than stupid Thibs. Not sure I love Thibs long term for this team, but he certainly has been successful in at least making this team win right now and begin to develop a different culture. If a new coach makes sense moving forward, by all means, let's do that. For now, I am excited to win some games and play productive basketball. Just my 2 cents.

I'll add to what you have said here.

I was thinking recently about how Thibs is viewed. People basically expect Thibs or really any team to take this team from where it was to being a upper tier team. Guess what? This is a crappy team and a crappy franchise. Sure the Wolves assembled talent but young talent doesn't always come together as quickly as you may like. Vinny Dell Negro took a couple teams in theBulls and Clippers with some talent that had struggled in past years and was the coach while those teams became at worst mediocre teams before being taken over by Thibs and then Doc Rivers. Thibs is doing the job of getting this team to respectability and the hopefully taking another step. This team hasn't even been respectable for over 10 years except an underachieving 40-42 season.

Based on what we have seen so far sticking with the group we had last year looks like a tough idea to buy into and I wouldn't have been against doing that. Sure we coulda spend some money on a wing that would have helped tie us over while Lavine got back but Butler has been absolutely terrific it's hard to imagine anyone being that good. Taj has been so good also and that wasn't the most popular signing. People want this to happen yesterday but the reality is it's gonna take some time even if you don't want to hear that.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Wow....this board certainly has become jaded on the Thibs topic. The guy simply can't win.

If we win, it isn't by enough, and/or it was complete luck. But when we lose, it is 100% driven by Thibs and his "style". Despite the fact that we have the 7th best record in the entire NBA.

I get the frustration in some aspects of the game, but by the sounds of it, we have about 3-4 guys on this board that should be getting paid about $5MM+ to coach in the NBA. They obviously understand the NBA game much more than stupid Thibs. Not sure I love Thibs long term for this team, but he certainly has been successful in at least making this team win right now and begin to develop a different culture. If a new coach makes sense moving forward, by all means, let's do that. For now, I am excited to win some games and play productive basketball. Just my 2 cents.

With adjusting to a roster overhaul we should have logically expected some bumps in the road. I think emotionally people wanted more with the acquistion of a top 15 player and exciting young players. If you look at the adjustments OKC has gone through it seems reasonable that teams are still working out kinks at this point in the season. We've had steady improvement all season and still haven't hit our peak yet which is exciting to me. We're already performing way beyond most of the board's prediction for wins, many here just didn't like Thibs to begin with from what I can tell. Arguing with winning seems silly to me but the grass is always greener I suppose.

I'm not accepting anything less than $8 million, Hicks :).

I love our wins/loss record and position in the standings...who wouldn't after so many years out of the playoffs? But there has to be a reason the local and national media are commenting so much on his coaching techniques, and some of us here are no different. Dead last in the NBA in an important stat like eFG% just can't be ignored, and although many here prefer to blame KAT and Wig for the defensive ineptitude, I think this article about the league catching up with Thibs' defense brings up a logical reason for our struggles. All kidding aside, I think many of us here could successfully coach a team consisting of a top 10 player and two #1 picks. I'm delighted that Flip and Thibs have assembled a roster with so much talent. But being so poor defensively and ranking near the bottom in 3-point attempts is unacceptable, and to say that the coach doesn't carry some responsibility for this is way too lenient in my opinion. I want this team to be better, and fortunately they have been since Thibs started playing his bench more like other teams. Now, I want him to make some adjustments to his offense and defense. If he can continue to improve, this will be a 52-win team.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

The team is playing at a 51-win pace as it stands right now so...

I get it. Those who didn't want Thibs here in the first place are going to say that he's a problem in Minnesota and that he's not a reason for their success. Got it. And we're all so stubborn here that we refuse to move even so slightly off our original stances despite results in the most important form of WINS being in our faces.

Have you ever heard the saying, "You're only as good as your record says you are." Well, we have some here essentially rewriting that phrase with, "You're only as good as your record says you are if you're playing a style of basketball that suits my liking." We talk each other's ears off, figuratively, about the offensive side of the ball despite the team being damn near elite at putting the ball in the hoop. It's just not the fun (I hate it, personally) "pass, pass, turn down an open layup to shoot a three" style that the modern era of basketball has turned to. Got it.

The real focus should be defensively where there's a ton of room to improve. And despite what some here say, the league-wide respected defensive mind -- the same coach whose concepts are copied routinely throughout the league -- who is good enough at his job to be a Team USA assistant coach and win 60% of the games he's coached in the NBA, might not be the problem there. Consider this, Minnesota has been an atrocious defensive team since... well, since an in-his-prime Kevin Garnett was shipped out almost 15 years ago. Perhaps this turnaround on that end is going to be a process and not an overnight change.

I'd also add that the bench being straight garbage -- just look at their net ratings -- really brings down the team's defensive stats, specifically. Hard to expect Thibs to make wine out of water defensively when you have Jamal Crawford, Shabazz Muhammad, Gorgui Dieng, and the physically limited Tyus Jones on the same bench. Individually, there's just not a lot there to work with.

I'll leave you all with this. Be patient. Let this group of assembled talent have more than 40 games under their belt before calling for the coach's head. Rome wasn't built overnight, and the Wolves damn sure won't go from perennial lottery team to championship contender in one season. That almost never happens so adjust your expectations accordingly.

* Hope you all had a fantastic Christmas and holiday season. Looking forward to 2018 with you all. *

[thedoper]

The team is playing at a 51-win pace as it stands right now so...

I get it. Those who didn't want Thibs here in the first place are going to say that he's a problem in Minnesota and that he's not a reason for their success. Got it. And we're all so stubborn here that we refuse to move even so slightly off our original stances despite results in the most important form of WINS being in our faces.

Have you ever heard the saying, "You're only as good as your record says you are." Well, we have some here essentially rewriting that phrase with, "You're only as good as your record says you are if you're playing a style of basketball that suits my liking." We talk each other's ears off, figuratively, about the offensive side of the ball despite the team being damn near elite at putting the ball in the hoop. It's just not the fun (I hate it, personally) "pass, pass, turn down an open layup to shoot a three" style that the modern era of basketball has turned to. Got it.

The real focus should be defensively where there's a ton of room to improve. And despite what some here say, the league-wide respected defensive mind -- the same coach whose concepts are copied routinely throughout the league -- who is good enough at his job to be a Team USA assistant coach and win 60% of the games he's coached in the NBA, might not be the problem there. Consider this, Minnesota has been an atrocious defensive team since... well, since an in-his-prime Kevin Garnett was shipped out almost 15 years ago. Perhaps this turnaround on that end is going to be a process and not an overnight change.

I'd also add that the bench being straight garbage -- just look at their net ratings -- really brings down the team's defensive stats, specifically. Hard to expect Thibs to make wine out of water defensively when you have Jamal Crawford, Shabazz Muhammad, Gorgui Dieng, and the physically limited Tyus Jones on the same bench. Individually, there's just not a lot there to work with.

I'll leave you all with this. Be patient. Let this group of assembled talent have more than 40 games under their belt before calling for the coach's head. Rome wasn't built overnight, and the Wolves damn sure won't go from perennial lottery team to championship contender in one season. That almost never happens so adjust your expectations accordingly.

* Hope you all had a fantastic Christmas and holiday season. Looking forward to 2018 with you all. *

Yeah but they should be playing at a 54 win pace. This is a great post. Thibs and our offense is not the problem, no matter how sloppy it looks.

[Shumway]

The team is playing at a 51-win pace as it stands right now so...

I get it. Those who didn't want Thibs here in the first place are going to say that he's a problem in Minnesota and that he's not a reason for their success. Got it. And we're all so stubborn here that we refuse to move even so slightly off our original stances despite results in the most important form of WINS being in our faces.

Have you ever heard the saying, "You're only as good as your record says you are." Well, we have some here essentially rewriting that phrase with, "You're only as good as your record says you are if you're playing a style of basketball that suits my liking." We talk each other's ears off, figuratively, about the offensive side of the ball despite the team being damn near elite at putting the ball in the hoop. It's just not the fun (I hate it, personally) "pass, pass, turn down an open layup to shoot a three" style that the modern era of basketball has turned to. Got it.

The real focus should be defensively where there's a ton of room to improve. And despite what some here say, the league-wide respected defensive mind -- the same coach whose concepts are copied routinely throughout the league -- who is good enough at his job to be a Team USA assistant coach and win 60% of the games he's coached in the NBA, might not be the problem there. Consider this, Minnesota has been an atrocious defensive team since... well, since an in-his-prime Kevin Garnett was shipped out almost 15 years ago. Perhaps this turnaround on that end is going to be a process and not an overnight change.

I'd also add that the bench being straight garbage -- just look at their net ratings -- really brings down the team's defensive stats, specifically. Hard to expect Thibs to make wine out of water defensively when you have Jamal Crawford, Shabazz Muhammad, Gorgui Dieng, and the physically limited Tyus Jones on the same bench. Individually, there's just not a lot there to work with.

I'll leave you all with this. Be patient. Let this group of assembled talent have more than 40 games under their belt before calling for the coach's head. Rome wasn't built overnight, and the Wolves damn sure won't go from perennial lottery team to championship contender in one season. That almost never happens so adjust your expectations accordingly.

* Hope you all had a fantastic Christmas and holiday season. Looking forward to 2018 with you all. *

Great post Cam. Good to hear the counterpoints on this hot-topic

True to my personality type, I take a bit of a middle ground on this.

In our own preseason win predictions, our average (both mean and median) prediction was 48 wins. We're on track for 51. As fans, it's easy to micro-analyse every Wolves game and over-react to every sign of imperfection. But every team drops games that they shouldn't drop. The 'paradox of skill' states that the more resources go into a task. the more difficult it gets to outperform as the competition continually improves. In an elite league like the NBA, it's really tough to be great. So our bottom line results are actually ahead of what we'd (collectively) hoped for.

But I can also see the caution in what appears to be some systematic flaws that will be tough to overcome. For me, that primarily comes down to the lack of progress from KAT and Wiggins. I'm very open to the idea that there are growing pains with new teammates. But in my eyes, the key to our long term success was based on the progress we'd see from KAT and Wiggins and, to date, that has been a major disappointment.