We need this one....Badly: Portland@Wolves GDT

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

LST, The defensive rating of the four starters plus Crawford (versus Wiggins) is 99.5 versus 103.6 with Wiggins. But that is based on a measly 21 minutes.

If you look at individual stats - Defensive RPM from ESPN is probably the closest to measuring individual defensive impact - both Crawford and Wiggins are miserable defenders. Crawford is ranked dead last among all shooting guards in the database (100 out of 100), whereas Wiggins is ranked 81st out of all 87 small forwards in the database.

I personally think DRPM undervalues Wiggins' defense. I think of him as a slightly below average all-around defender versus horrible. His length and athleticism allows him to switch and guard a few different positions at a competent level, but as a team defender (helping the helper, defensive rebounding, etc.) I think he's still pretty bad......But I think Crawford is worse.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

It's interesting....Zgoda has an article today in the Strib about this very topic. Wiggins is quoted as saying, "I think I'm a great defender, honestly".

The dude is delusional. He has occasional strong defensive moments, but he's not a "great" defender by any objective measure known to man kind.

At this point, Butler is practically calling Wiggins and KAT out by name in terms of not doing the little things and giving enough effort. Good to see. I hope Crawford keeps pushing Wiggins for crunch time minutes. May be the gravy train of entitled minutes has come to an end.....

[Lipoli390]

Wiggins ranks 293 in overall RPM. The only reason he ranks that "high" is becasue of a slight positive offensive RPM of 0.26. He has the 3rd worst defensive RPM on the Wolves at -1.73. Only Bazz and Crawford have worse defensive RPMs. How Wiggins can call himself a "great defender" is incomprehensible. Even those who say he's improved defensively, have to really reach for that observation.

To provide more perspective, Jimmy Butler ranks 6th in the League in overall RPM while KAT ranks 42nd. Belly ranks 68 while Teague ranks 104. It drops way down until you get to Wiggins at 293, Dieng at 398, Crawford at 443 and Bazz at 449. Gorgui's rank gets dragged down primarily by his offense, while Wiggins and Crawford get dragged down mainly by their poor defensive ranking. Bazz gets dragged down by both.

I don't know how far you can take RPM in evaluating individual players. But when the numbers are so stark, they do provide valuable insight.

Looking strictly at the RPM numbers tells us to continue building this team around Butler, KAT, Belly and Teague. The caveat on Belly is his foot. He may be another Pekovic in the making. The good news about KAT is that, in spite of where he is on the defensive learning curve, his defensive RPM isn't bad at -0.08 -- almost in the positive zone. And of course, he has a very positive offensive rating. Teague's defensive RPM is fairly bad at -0.86, but I thought it might be worse and he has a positive offensive RPM of 1.38 for an overall positive RPM of 0.52. For those still interested in the Rubio comparisons, Ricky ranks 168 with a negative offensive RPM of -0.67 and a positive defensive RPM of 0.30. No surprise there. Ricky's the better defender and Teague is the better offensive player.

Obviously, most troubling of all are Wiggins RPM numbers -- especially his defensive numbers, but also his barely positive offensive RPM and overall negative RPM of -1.47. That's totally unacceptable for a player with his gifts well into his 4th season with a max contract begging next season.

[thedoper]

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

Great article here on RPM explaining what it is used for. I don't think RPM numbers should be used to explain the season. Based on the defensive numbers through this season Wiggins will be much higher dRPM moving forward from what I understand of the stat and from what I am seeing this year.

This year Wiggins pretty much average in defensive win shares and defensive rating on NBA.com. (A little below average on D rating and a little above average in dWS). This kind of fits what I see. He has been ok on D overall. Sometimes great, sometimes lacking. He certainly is capable of great D at times, which is likely where his delusion is coming from.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

Great article here on RPM explaining what it is used for. I don't think RPM numbers should be used to explain the season. Based on the defensive numbers through this season Wiggins will be much higher dRPM moving forward from what I understand of the stat and from what I am seeing this year.

This year Wiggins pretty much average in defensive win shares and defensive rating on NBA.com. (A little below average on D rating and a little above average in dWS). This kind of fits what I see. He has been ok on D overall. Sometimes great, sometimes lacking. He certainly is capable of great D at times, which is likely where his delusion is coming from.

Good article and I agree. I think RPM has always underrated Wiggins' defense. "OK-ish" is probably the best way to describe his defense, but I still think he's below average.

[AbeVigodaLive]

More fun with stats:

Wiggins OBPM is -1.2. His DBPM is -1.7. And for the 4th year in a row... he has a negative VORP. So according to that statistic... he's worse than some random average replacement guy. Again.

Towns
Butler
Gibson
Teague
Jones
Dieng
Bjelicia

All have a positive BPM. Crawford does not because of defense.

As for VORP...

Wiggins -.03
Muhammad -.03
Crawford -.02

EVERYBODY else is above. Now I know that Wiggins apologists can point to ppg or mythical, non-tangible defense stuff or spin move or long 2 makes every game...

... but eventually... when enough statistics show time and time and time again that he's simply not getting the job done and not getting better...

You get the point. He's fast becoming a $146.5M bust UNLESS something changes. SOON.

After 270+ games, I'm done holding my breath.

[Lipoli390]

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

Great article here on RPM explaining what it is used for. I don't think RPM numbers should be used to explain the season. Based on the defensive numbers through this season Wiggins will be much higher dRPM moving forward from what I understand of the stat and from what I am seeing this year.

This year Wiggins pretty much average in defensive win shares and defensive rating on NBA.com. (A little below average on D rating and a little above average in dWS). This kind of fits what I see. He has been ok on D overall. Sometimes great, sometimes lacking. He certainly is capable of great D at times, which is likely where his delusion is coming from.

Good article and I agree. I think RPM has always underrated Wiggins' defense. "OK-ish" is probably the best way to describe his defense, but I still think he's below average.

I agree that it's a very interesting article. Thanks for posting, Doper. But I don't think RPM understates Wiggins' defense. Yes, the RPM takes into account Wiggins' prior defensive performance before this season. But his past stats won't make a big difference unless Wiggins improved a lot as in the Anthony Davis example given by the author. And I haven't seen any other stats to suggest that Wiggins has improved substantially in any category of performance. You look at stat after stat and see no improvement or even regression -- points, FG%, 3-point%, FT%, rebounding. The bottom line is that the RPM is designed to be predictive. And that's what's so troubling. Because the best predictive stat shows Wiggins to be one of the worst defenders at his position with an overall rank of 293 in the League compared to all players at all positions. Small differences in RPM can be easily dismissed as not very instructive. But when your RPM is as bad as Wiggins' RPM comparatively, then it becomes pretty telling -- especially when there are no reliable other stats showing significant individual improvement.

[Monster]

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

Great article here on RPM explaining what it is used for. I don't think RPM numbers should be used to explain the season. Based on the defensive numbers through this season Wiggins will be much higher dRPM moving forward from what I understand of the stat and from what I am seeing this year.

This year Wiggins pretty much average in defensive win shares and defensive rating on NBA.com. (A little below average on D rating and a little above average in dWS). This kind of fits what I see. He has been ok on D overall. Sometimes great, sometimes lacking. He certainly is capable of great D at times, which is likely where his delusion is coming from.

Thanks Doper for posting that article. It explains a lot of stuff really well. I thought the most interesting thing was that RPM has an element based on past performance. I always found RPM interesting and worthwhile hit also thought it like plenty of other stats was not an end all be all thing either. I really need to start learning some statistics. It's pretty fascinating.

The funny thing is that Crawford basically told Wolfson on his last podcast that he doesn't pay attention to a lot of stats that say what is and isn't a good shot etc. He said he can't think to much or that is the best defense against you thinking too much. He said he practices every shot he ever takes in a game. Wolfson asked him about Wiggins and Crawford went back to that and said Part of Wiggins was he was thinking too much. Crawford wasn't saying throw out everything and just play but I think there is some validity to just going out and playing to a certain extent. I think part of Wiggins thing is and always has he thinks too much instead of playing. He is the anti Crawford or Lavine. Towns is a mixture of both of those those things and when on that podcast with Redick, JJ said that someone from
the movie industry told him after watching him play that he was fighting against himself and he said that after contemplating it it was really insightful. He said he really sees that with Towns and Karl agreed and went on to say why and how critical he can be of himself after a game.

[60WinTim]

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

Great article here on RPM explaining what it is used for. I don't think RPM numbers should be used to explain the season. Based on the defensive numbers through this season Wiggins will be much higher dRPM moving forward from what I understand of the stat and from what I am seeing this year.

This year Wiggins pretty much average in defensive win shares and defensive rating on NBA.com. (A little below average on D rating and a little above average in dWS). This kind of fits what I see. He has been ok on D overall. Sometimes great, sometimes lacking. He certainly is capable of great D at times, which is likely where his delusion is coming from.

Thanks Doper for posting that article. It explains a lot of stuff really well. I thought the most interesting thing was that RPM has an element based on past performance. I always found RPM interesting and worthwhile hit also thought it like plenty of other stats was not an end all be all thing either. I really need to start learning some statistics. It's pretty fascinating.

The funny thing is that Crawford basically told Wolfson on his last podcast that he doesn't pay attention to a lot of stats that say what is and isn't a good shot etc. He said he can't think to much or that is the best defense against you thinking too much. He said he practices every shot he ever takes in a game. Wolfson asked him about Wiggins and Crawford went back to that and said Part of Wiggins was he was thinking too much. Crawford wasn't saying throw out everything and just play but I think there is some validity to just going out and playing to a certain extent. I think part of Wiggins thing is and always has he thinks too much instead of playing. He is the anti Crawford or Lavine. Towns is a mixture of both of those those things and when on that podcast with Redick, JJ said that someone from
the movie industry told him after watching him play that he was fighting against himself and he said that after contemplating it it was really insightful. He said he really sees that with Towns and Karl agreed and went on to say why and how critical he can be of himself after a game.

Just like we say in golf: Grip it and rip it! ;-)

[Monster]

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

Great article here on RPM explaining what it is used for. I don't think RPM numbers should be used to explain the season. Based on the defensive numbers through this season Wiggins will be much higher dRPM moving forward from what I understand of the stat and from what I am seeing this year.

This year Wiggins pretty much average in defensive win shares and defensive rating on NBA.com. (A little below average on D rating and a little above average in dWS). This kind of fits what I see. He has been ok on D overall. Sometimes great, sometimes lacking. He certainly is capable of great D at times, which is likely where his delusion is coming from.

Thanks Doper for posting that article. It explains a lot of stuff really well. I thought the most interesting thing was that RPM has an element based on past performance. I always found RPM interesting and worthwhile hit also thought it like plenty of other stats was not an end all be all thing either. I really need to start learning some statistics. It's pretty fascinating.

The funny thing is that Crawford basically told Wolfson on his last podcast that he doesn't pay attention to a lot of stats that say what is and isn't a good shot etc. He said he can't think to much or that is the best defense against you thinking too much. He said he practices every shot he ever takes in a game. Wolfson asked him about Wiggins and Crawford went back to that and said Part of Wiggins was he was thinking too much. Crawford wasn't saying throw out everything and just play but I think there is some validity to just going out and playing to a certain extent. I think part of Wiggins thing is and always has he thinks too much instead of playing. He is the anti Crawford or Lavine. Towns is a mixture of both of those those things and when on that podcast with Redick, JJ said that someone from
the movie industry told him after watching him play that he was fighting against himself and he said that after contemplating it it was really insightful. He said he really sees that with Towns and Karl agreed and went on to say why and how critical he can be of himself after a game.

Just like we say in golf: Grip it and rip it! ;-)

:)

I saw on Twitter than Wiggins trainer Drew Hanlen was coming to Phoenix to work with him. A number of media people have been saying this should happen and I agree. It's been reported many teams including the Wolves going back to flip like to keep stuff in house and not have guys work with their clients like this during the season. I get why but at this point it makes sense to get him in here and help Wiggins out. Hanlen is very highly regarded and I think he has done some pretty good work with some players that have made improvements.