Wolves Defensive breakdowns

[Duke13]

Reading this thread, I don't think anyone was saying Wig is the sole reason for our poor defense. Just pointing out some pretty glaring weaknesses in his game. Undeniable I think.

[thedoper]

Reading this thread, I don't think anyone was saying Wig is the sole reason for our poor defense. Just pointing out some pretty glaring weaknesses in his game. Undeniable I think.

The title of this thread is "Wolves defensive breakdowns" shouldn't it be more accurately titled "Wiggins late help D". These are clips of Wiggins responding incorrectly to his teammates' breakdowns which is one area for improvement should he become Lebron or Leonard level.

This wasn't a breakdown of what's wrong with the team D. It is some isolated clips with no context of Wiggins poor points last night. The whole game had plenty of great defensive moments from Andrew and was not the problem with our d last night.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Doper - It takes a team effort to be as bad as we are on defense. That being said, these highlights show Wiggins at his worst. We've seen him dialed in when defending on the ball in isolation. But it's this stuff that drives me crazy about him. He never takes charges, rarely blocks shots, is a poor defensive rebounder. He needs to get waaaaay better as a team defender, and yes, that means sometimes covering for his team mates' butts.

Cool - LOL, when you don't like what you see, then disparage the messenger (in this case Nate Duncan). Classic. By the way, even your next door neighbor could see the problem in these clips. It doesn't take an expert to see lack of effort.

Like I said Q, I get it. Your daily efforts to convince us we suck at D along with my own eyes tell the story. And if you can drag Andrew through the mud while doing so means extra points for you. Nice job.

Oh, don't be so sensitive. May be we need a trigger warning for you prior to any discussion of Wiggins?

As for the discussion on defense, the reason I bring it up is because the vast majority of comments when analyzing our team and players is on the offensive side of the ball, yet we have been a top 10 offense all season. If we had point guards that could shoot and young guys that didn't get tunnel vision when things got tight, I'm sure we'd be even better.

But by far the greatest area for improvement is defense. I would challenge the well-informed posters on this board to talk MORE about defense, not less.

[Coolbreeze44]

Doper - It takes a team effort to be as bad as we are on defense. That being said, these highlights show Wiggins at his worst. We've seen him dialed in when defending on the ball in isolation. But it's this stuff that drives me crazy about him. He never takes charges, rarely blocks shots, is a poor defensive rebounder. He needs to get waaaaay better as a team defender, and yes, that means sometimes covering for his team mates' butts.

Cool - LOL, when you don't like what you see, then disparage the messenger (in this case Nate Duncan). Classic. By the way, even your next door neighbor could see the problem in these clips. It doesn't take an expert to see lack of effort.

Like I said Q, I get it. Your daily efforts to convince us we suck at D along with my own eyes tell the story. And if you can drag Andrew through the mud while doing so means extra points for you. Nice job.

Oh, don't be so sensitive. May be we need a trigger warning for you prior to any discussion of Wiggins?

As for the discussion on defense, the reason I bring it up is because the vast majority of comments when analyzing our team and players is on the offensive side of the ball, yet we have been a top 10 offense all season. If we had point guards that could shoot and young guys that didn't get tunnel vision when things got tight, I'm sure we'd be even better.

But by far the greatest area for improvement is defense. I would challenge the well-informed posters on this board to talk MORE about defense, not less.

I think your arguments could be a little more balanced.

[thedoper]

If I had no life like Nate Duncan I could make an hour long video of Rubio running 3 feet under screens all year.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Doper - It takes a team effort to be as bad as we are on defense. That being said, these highlights show Wiggins at his worst. We've seen him dialed in when defending on the ball in isolation. But it's this stuff that drives me crazy about him. He never takes charges, rarely blocks shots, is a poor defensive rebounder. He needs to get waaaaay better as a team defender, and yes, that means sometimes covering for his team mates' butts.

Cool - LOL, when you don't like what you see, then disparage the messenger (in this case Nate Duncan). Classic. By the way, even your next door neighbor could see the problem in these clips. It doesn't take an expert to see lack of effort.

Sometimes covering, more like always covering. The whole system is breaking down because everyone is getting beat to easily from the get go. I think my point still stands. Andrew's mistakes are not what make our team defense poor. I worst they account for 1/5 of our team mistakes. But since he is the best of our steaming pile of poo it is likely more like 1/8 or 1/10.

Disagree very much with this take. Now I definitely don't think he is the only problem on defense. But he is a major contributor to our overall poor team defense. I think KAT and LaVine are too. All three more than Dieng and Rubio (not that those guys are perfect either, but I believe both are at least neutral defensively). There are stats that suggest the same, but my own eyes tell me this as well. I guess we're seeing different things.

[thedoper]

Doper - It takes a team effort to be as bad as we are on defense. That being said, these highlights show Wiggins at his worst. We've seen him dialed in when defending on the ball in isolation. But it's this stuff that drives me crazy about him. He never takes charges, rarely blocks shots, is a poor defensive rebounder. He needs to get waaaaay better as a team defender, and yes, that means sometimes covering for his team mates' butts.

Cool - LOL, when you don't like what you see, then disparage the messenger (in this case Nate Duncan). Classic. By the way, even your next door neighbor could see the problem in these clips. It doesn't take an expert to see lack of effort.

Sometimes covering, more like always covering. The whole system is breaking down because everyone is getting beat to easily from the get go. I think my point still stands. Andrew's mistakes are not what make our team defense poor. I worst they account for 1/5 of our team mistakes. But since he is the best of our steaming pile of poo it is likely more like 1/8 or 1/10.

Disagree very much with this take. Now I definitely don't think he is the only problem on defense. But he is a major contributor to our overall poor team defense. I think KAT and LaVine are too. All three more than Dieng and Rubio (not that those guys are perfect either, but I believe both are at least neutral defensively). There are stats that suggest the same, but my own eyes tell me this as well. I guess we're seeing different things.

We definitely are. Rubio is not a good defender inspite of drpm. I have full conviction of that. He has a nose for the ball and gets some timely steals. But he is ridiculously slow and lazy staying on the ball. As for Dieng 46 opponent points in the paint per game (3 worst in NBA) is not all on KAT.

[Monster]

There were 2 clips pointing out Towns playing poor D also.

I didn't watch or follow the NBA anywhere near as closely but I remember back in 2009-2010 it seemed like Durant (in his 3rd year) was playing defense and so was that whole team. Did he suddenly get it? Did he suddenly start caring more or was it partly coaching and teammates around him that was part of the end result? Idk I'd be interested to hear some takes on that. I'm not suggesting it's a perfect parallel but it could be an interesting one to examine.

One thing I believe the Wolves have continued to improve on is their transition defense. It wasn't as good in the Denver game but after being one of the worst teams in the league for most of the season hey are now closer to the middle of the pack. I mentioned that before it's about discapline and knowing where you are on the floor and of course running back too. I still think this team has a chance to stastistically get to the middle of the pack defensively by the end of the season. We saw last year how this team came together offensively I wouldn't be surprised if for 30 or so games this year they came together on that end also. We have seen stretches where they get it done. It's just not consistant enough. I've seen a Towns step up his D though these last few games and Rubio has been a lot better including his work on screens and he has been more comfortable overall and therefore being more disruptive. I'm not saying he is a great defender but he has been much better and more the guy we saw last year that was pretty good on that end easily the best of his career at that point.

[thedoper]

Some glaring aggregate stats by position:

Opponent Scoring:

PG Position - 24.8 ppg (4th worst in NBA) at league worst 47% FG, 2nd worst 39% from 3 - despite being 10 ten in creating turnovers at this position.

Basically guys are scoring at will from the PG position and getting great looks at 3 despite Ricky and Dunn causing some disruption.

Center Position - 23.7 ppg (4th worst in the NBA) at league worst 59% FG. We are the 6th best in creating turnovers at this position and have been getting a +1 rebound differential for the season. So G's defensive stats, like Rubio's, have been getting inflated by being relatively good at individual metrics while their cover is going off at will. Yes team concepts matter in covering these guys. But the 3pt % from the point only seems to highlight Ricky's inability to fight through screens. If you go back and look at the box scores of the center position for the year it is sad. There is always at least one big who seems to shoot 80% against us. We're 4th worst in the league in points in the paint as I mentioned above.

The basic summary - teams are getting their push on us from the PG and Center positions. PF we are 20th in the league, SG and SF are top 10. The Lavine junkies may love to know that we are 2nd in the league in scoring from the 2 at a league best 40%. Now I know Thibs doesn't play anywhere near a man D but the individual matchups matter especially in wearing a team down in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock.

We talk about team concepts a lot being the important factors when trying to assess defensive stats but I think the major deficiency in assessing defensive stats of a player is leaving out opponent scoring by position as a ratio with (on/off) lineup performance. Maybe I will build the equation for any of you future gms out there.

[Monster]

Some glaring aggregate stats by position:

Opponent Scoring:

PG Position - 24.8 ppg (4th worst in NBA) at league worst 47% FG, 2nd worst 39% from 3 - despite being 10 ten in creating turnovers at this position.

Basically guys are scoring at will from the PG position and getting great looks at 3 despite Ricky and Dunn causing some disruption.

Center Position - 23.7 ppg (4th worst in the NBA) at league worst 59% FG. We are the 6th best in creating turnovers at this position and have been getting a +1 rebound differential for the season. So G's defensive stats, like Rubio's, have been getting inflated by being relatively good at individual metrics while their cover is going off at will. Yes team concepts matter in covering these guys. But the 3pt % from the point only seems to highlight Ricky's inability to fight through screens. If you go back and look at the box scores of the center position for the year it is sad. There is always at least one big who seems to shoot 80% against us. We're 4th worst in the league in points in the paint as I mentioned above.

The basic summary - teams are getting their push on us from the PG and Center positions. PF we are 20th in the league, SG and SF are top 10. The Lavine junkies may love to know that we are 2nd in the league in scoring from the 2 at a league best 40%. Now I know Thibs doesn't play anywhere near a man D but the individual matchups matter especially in wearing a team down in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock.

We talk about team concepts a lot being the important factors when trying to assess defensive stats but I think the major deficiency in assessing defensive stats of a player is leaving out opponent scoring by position as a ratio with (on/off) lineup performance. Maybe I will build the equation for any of you future gms out there.

Those are some interesting stats. I'll sound like a super Dieng fan boy but how many of the easy points centers get against the Wolves when Dieng (or someone else) makes a rotation and nobody covers for them or they are super late? It feels like that happens a ton. I think I'm realistic about Dieng but I also think sometimes he ends up being underrated by some here.

I also think Dunn's actually play to play defensive impact is not as good as some people seem to assume. His defensive potential is off the charts but he still has some poor plays here and there. I think he is gonna be a defensive monster sooner rather than later which makes me glad we have him.