khans2k5 wrote:With Zach out I wouldn't be opposed to D Rose. Wiggins and Towns need some help now to get some buckets. He solves nothing defensively and I don't neccessarily want him long-term if he really wants to charge as much as he says, but we need some help down the stretch to close out strong. Ideally you swap him and a piece for Ricky and see if it works. I want no part of Noah though. He's just done. Rose at least has some juice left.
Have you seen Rose this year?
Rose basically freezes everyone out and goes iso.
Gorgui becomes the best passer in the starting lineup with this trade.
Bingo.
Also, Rose is damaged goods and a flake. He is hardly the example of toughness, team-first attitude, and veteran leadership we need. Yuck!
Mstermisty wrote:Well it works as a salary dump (which I like better than the R. Jackson idea) and probably if anything tells you Thibs believes in Dunn. Personally I think at 14 mill a year for the next two years Rubio can be a valuable part of the point guard platoon. Sure it could open up more salary in the short term, but do we even need it? I'd rather keep a contributing player at a reasonable salary, not to mention one that has been playing his best basketball of the season as of late.
I see no way we take on Noah. Unless Thibs can put him through a time machine first...and while he's at it, put Rose in there too.
One other unlikely, but not impossible, scenario that frightens me: Rose comes here, reunites with Thibs and finishes the season strong, then we sign him and he reverts back to what he is now--a shell of the mvp player under Thibs. I mean, I just don't see it, but Thibs might see something else.
My bet is this trade does go down though. Let the D(unn)Rose era begin...
I think you nailed it, misty. No, we don't need the cap room right now...we have plenty. Our problem comes when the Big 3 and pieces needed to win a championship all demand the contracts they deserve, and we cant afford them without going "lux"...I don't see how this deal helps us in any way. Keep Ricky, and don't go after Rose.
I agree with these takes. To me the possible positive scenario of acquiring Rose (assuming the Knicks want Rubio at all...who knows) is if Thibs can convince Rose to accept a reasonable salary this offseason. Based on what I have read...um that seems doubtful and he would have to be willing to be a possible backup. I don't see it. I'll just throw out there than Rose ain't a better 3 point shooter than Rubio. I think Rose is a better basketball player than Rubio when it's all said and done but it's debateable about how large of a gap the difference is. Again if you add Rose you add another guy who's primary value is scoring. How exactly will that make sense?
khans2k5 wrote:With Zach out I wouldn't be opposed to D Rose. Wiggins and Towns need some help now to get some buckets. He solves nothing defensively and I don't neccessarily want him long-term if he really wants to charge as much as he says, but we need some help down the stretch to close out strong. Ideally you swap him and a piece for Ricky and see if it works. I want no part of Noah though. He's just done. Rose at least has some juice left.
Have you seen Rose this year?
Rose basically freezes everyone out and goes iso.
Gorgui becomes the best passer in the starting lineup with this trade.
Bingo.
Also, Rose is damaged goods and a flake. He is hardly the example of toughness, team-first attitude, and veteran leadership we need. Yuck!
Thibs may disagree with some of this. Thibs talks glowingly about Derrick, especially his competitiveness.
Personally I think Rose is some of what you described but maybe said some things that got twisted a bit (his fault for saying dumb things) and he isn't as bad as it seems but it's hard to think "Oh yeah Derrick Rose that guy will bring leadership to the team we want".
I think what I havam gathered Thibs and Layden are looking for guys especially vets that are willing to play for something other than money. Based on reports about Rosewanting to get paid this offseason and some of his past comments...it doesn't seem like he fits what they are looking for. I've written too much about Rose already.
1. After 6 years, it's probably time for Rubio to move on. More importantly, I think he'd agree.
2. Thibs has made it clear Rubio is not his type of PG.
3. The Wolves would be terrible to watch. I'm a PG guy. There's an aesthetic to the game that's important as a fan. The Wolves already play too much iso ball. Rose would make it near unbearable. Yuck.
4. Cap space is irrelevant.
5. Noah is irrelevant. He's done.
6. Kyle O'Quinn? I still think there's something there.
7. Is Rubio even a Triangle PG?
8. I'm still thinking Rubio's team is behind trade rumors more than the Wolves are.
9. Kris Dunn is NOT ready. I'm starting to worry the Wolves are gonna pass a top PG in the draft because Dunn is already on the roster.
10. This is what everybody worried about with Thibs. But it never materialized. So why would he grow so impatient now? I think it's all conjecture or... see #8.
1. After 6 years, it's probably time for Rubio to move on. More importantly, I think he'd agree.
2. Thibs has made it clear Rubio is not his type of PG.
3. The Wolves would be terrible to watch. I'm a PG guy. There's an aesthetic to the game that's important as a fan. The Wolves already play too much iso ball. Rose would make it near unbearable. Yuck.
4. Cap space is irrelevant.
5. Noah is irrelevant. He's done.
6. Kyle O'Quinn? I still think there's something there.
7. Is Rubio even a Triangle PG?
8. I'm still thinking Rubio's team is behind trade rumors more than the Wolves are.
9. Kris Dunn is NOT ready. I'm starting to worry the Wolves are gonna pass a top PG in the draft because Dunn is already on the roster.
10. This is what everybody worried about with Thibs. But it never materialized. So why would he grow so impatient now? I think it's all conjecture or... see #8.
While #1 and #2 might be true, there needs to be a solution for post-Ricky before pulling the trigger on anything. Rose and Dunn aren't that solution, as the rest of your points articulate quite well.
khans2k5 wrote:With Zach out I wouldn't be opposed to D Rose. Wiggins and Towns need some help now to get some buckets. He solves nothing defensively and I don't neccessarily want him long-term if he really wants to charge as much as he says, but we need some help down the stretch to close out strong. Ideally you swap him and a piece for Ricky and see if it works. I want no part of Noah though. He's just done. Rose at least has some juice left.
Have you seen Rose this year?
Rose basically freezes everyone out and goes iso.
Gorgui becomes the best passer in the starting lineup with this trade.
Bingo.
Also, Rose is damaged goods and a flake. He is hardly the example of toughness, team-first attitude, and veteran leadership we need. Yuck!
I'm on board with this. I don't like the man's character, period.
I don't see how more capspace is irrelevant. If we could come out of this offseason with Milsap and Patty Mills I take it in a heartbeat. Where we are right now we could sign one Tier 2 (more likely) or a Tier 1 free agent. With Ricky gone we have much more options.
Mstermisty wrote:Well it works as a salary dump (which I like better than the R. Jackson idea) and probably if anything tells you Thibs believes in Dunn. Personally I think at 14 mill a year for the next two years Rubio can be a valuable part of the point guard platoon. Sure it could open up more salary in the short term, but do we even need it? I'd rather keep a contributing player at a reasonable salary, not to mention one that has been playing his best basketball of the season as of late.
I see no way we take on Noah. Unless Thibs can put him through a time machine first...and while he's at it, put Rose in there too.
One other unlikely, but not impossible, scenario that frightens me: Rose comes here, reunites with Thibs and finishes the season strong, then we sign him and he reverts back to what he is now--a shell of the mvp player under Thibs. I mean, I just don't see it, but Thibs might see something else.
My bet is this trade does go down though. Let the D(unn)Rose era begin...
I think you nailed it, misty. No, we don't need the cap room right now...we have plenty. Our problem comes when the Big 3 and pieces needed to win a championship all demand the contracts they deserve, and we cant afford them without going "lux"...I don't see how this deal helps us in any way. Keep Ricky, and don't go after Rose.
I agree with these takes. To me the possible positive scenario of acquiring Rose (assuming the Knicks want Rubio at all...who knows) is if Thibs can convince Rose to accept a reasonable salary this offseason. Based on what I have read...um that seems doubtful and he would have to be willing to be a possible backup. I don't see it. I'll just throw out there than Rose ain't a better 3 point shooter than Rubio. I think Rose is a better basketball player than Rubio when it's all said and done but it's debateable about how large of a gap the difference is. Again if you add Rose you add another guy who's primary value is scoring. How exactly will that make sense?
It makes sense because a pass first non-scoring PG hasn't worked here at all during Ricky's career. It's time to try something else and if Rose doesn't work out you just let him go and try to find someone else in the off season. We know Ricky doesn't work here. Why keep banging our heads against that wall? Rose can't shoot from behind the arc but he is shooting 46% inside the arc which is light years better than Ricky and still really good for a PG. If you put guys like Towns and Wiggins around him it might work out. It also might not I'm fully aware but at this point we know Ricky just doesn't work here and Rose knows Thibs so he's the best in-season change we could probably make in the middle of a season to try something else and have a good idea if it works or not.
Mstermisty wrote:Well it works as a salary dump (which I like better than the R. Jackson idea) and probably if anything tells you Thibs believes in Dunn. Personally I think at 14 mill a year for the next two years Rubio can be a valuable part of the point guard platoon. Sure it could open up more salary in the short term, but do we even need it? I'd rather keep a contributing player at a reasonable salary, not to mention one that has been playing his best basketball of the season as of late.
I see no way we take on Noah. Unless Thibs can put him through a time machine first...and while he's at it, put Rose in there too.
One other unlikely, but not impossible, scenario that frightens me: Rose comes here, reunites with Thibs and finishes the season strong, then we sign him and he reverts back to what he is now--a shell of the mvp player under Thibs. I mean, I just don't see it, but Thibs might see something else.
My bet is this trade does go down though. Let the D(unn)Rose era begin...
I think you nailed it, misty. No, we don't need the cap room right now...we have plenty. Our problem comes when the Big 3 and pieces needed to win a championship all demand the contracts they deserve, and we cant afford them without going "lux"...I don't see how this deal helps us in any way. Keep Ricky, and don't go after Rose.
I agree with these takes. To me the possible positive scenario of acquiring Rose (assuming the Knicks want Rubio at all...who knows) is if Thibs can convince Rose to accept a reasonable salary this offseason. Based on what I have read...um that seems doubtful and he would have to be willing to be a possible backup. I don't see it. I'll just throw out there than Rose ain't a better 3 point shooter than Rubio. I think Rose is a better basketball player than Rubio when it's all said and done but it's debateable about how large of a gap the difference is. Again if you add Rose you add another guy who's primary value is scoring. How exactly will that make sense?
It makes sense because a pass first non-scoring PG hasn't worked here at all during Ricky's career. It's time to try something else and if Rose doesn't work out you just let him go and try to find someone else in the off season. We know Ricky doesn't work here. Why keep banging our heads against that wall? Rose can't shoot from behind the arc but he is shooting 46% inside the arc which is light years better than Ricky and still really good for a PG. If you put guys like Towns and Wiggins around him it might work out. It also might not I'm fully aware but at this point we know Ricky just doesn't work here and Rose knows Thibs so he's the best in-season change we could probably make in the middle of a season to try something else and have a good idea if it works or not.
If we want to do the "let's trying something different" angle, I see more upside in Reggie Jackson. Another flawed player, but maybe there's something there and he's just returning from injury a bit slower than expected this season.
So let's say it doesn't work out with him... trade him for cheap. With Rose, you'd be giving him up for nothing.
Mstermisty wrote:Well it works as a salary dump (which I like better than the R. Jackson idea) and probably if anything tells you Thibs believes in Dunn. Personally I think at 14 mill a year for the next two years Rubio can be a valuable part of the point guard platoon. Sure it could open up more salary in the short term, but do we even need it? I'd rather keep a contributing player at a reasonable salary, not to mention one that has been playing his best basketball of the season as of late.
I see no way we take on Noah. Unless Thibs can put him through a time machine first...and while he's at it, put Rose in there too.
One other unlikely, but not impossible, scenario that frightens me: Rose comes here, reunites with Thibs and finishes the season strong, then we sign him and he reverts back to what he is now--a shell of the mvp player under Thibs. I mean, I just don't see it, but Thibs might see something else.
My bet is this trade does go down though. Let the D(unn)Rose era begin...
I think you nailed it, misty. No, we don't need the cap room right now...we have plenty. Our problem comes when the Big 3 and pieces needed to win a championship all demand the contracts they deserve, and we cant afford them without going "lux"...I don't see how this deal helps us in any way. Keep Ricky, and don't go after Rose.
I agree with these takes. To me the possible positive scenario of acquiring Rose (assuming the Knicks want Rubio at all...who knows) is if Thibs can convince Rose to accept a reasonable salary this offseason. Based on what I have read...um that seems doubtful and he would have to be willing to be a possible backup. I don't see it. I'll just throw out there than Rose ain't a better 3 point shooter than Rubio. I think Rose is a better basketball player than Rubio when it's all said and done but it's debateable about how large of a gap the difference is. Again if you add Rose you add another guy who's primary value is scoring. How exactly will that make sense?
It makes sense because a pass first non-scoring PG hasn't worked here at all during Ricky's career. It's time to try something else and if Rose doesn't work out you just let him go and try to find someone else in the off season. We know Ricky doesn't work here. Why keep banging our heads against that wall? Rose can't shoot from behind the arc but he is shooting 46% inside the arc which is light years better than Ricky and still really good for a PG. If you put guys like Towns and Wiggins around him it might work out. It also might not I'm fully aware but at this point we know Ricky just doesn't work here and Rose knows Thibs so he's the best in-season change we could probably make in the middle of a season to try something else and have a good idea if it works or not.
If we want to do the "let's trying something different" angle, I see more upside in Reggie Jackson. Another flawed player, but maybe there's something there and he's just returning from injury a bit slower than expected this season.
So let's say it doesn't work out with him... trade him for cheap. With Rose, you'd be giving him up for nothing.
I've put forth the idea for a while that as much as I like and respect Rubio's game I've wondered if he is the next Calderon type. Very worthwhile but flawed player with a nice contract but ultimately he is a guy that has to play in the perfect situation to cover his flaws or be a top backup...on a really good team. The idea that Rubio doesn't work here is a bit flawed though. He is playing for his 4th coach in 4 years. It's. It like he has been playing in a ststem with the same player for 3 years or something. I'm not totally against Rose he has actually been able to score pretty well this year and relatively efficiently. I'm certainly not against giving up Rubio for Rose but it's not a no-brainer either. Having cap space might mean paying around what rubio makes for a good fringe starter/backup PG. Delly got what 10 million per last summer?
