A battle of defensive powder puffs - Wolves@Denver GDT

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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: A battle of defensive powder puffs - Wolves@Denver GDT

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

bleedspeed177 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:

- I dig Gary Harris. He can shoot. He has a but of bounce. And he's not unplayable on defense. Plus, he's made significant improvement in each of his 3 seasons... I see that continuing.

.


What is his upside? Gerald Henderson? That was what I thought when he came out.


It's arguable that he's already better than Henderson...

Henderson's best season:
15.5 ppg / 3.7 reb / 2.6 ast / 44.7% fg / 33.0% 3fg

Harris this season:
13.4 ppg / 3.2 reb / 2.5 ast / 47.6% fg / 42.1% 3fg / (in only 29 mpg)

I'm not entirely sure who the best comp is. Potentially a Bradley Beal? I don't think he has the craftiness or handles to become McCollum-esque (with better defense). We'll see if this steady improvement stops like with Henderson or continues like with the other guys...
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: A battle of defensive powder puffs - Wolves@Denver GDT

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

This was a good win, despite playing a team missing some key players. Let's not lose sight of the fact we were also playing without Zach and Stephenson who has really looked good to me, not to mention Adre...well, Zach and Lance at least. And we beat a good team fairly easily on the road...nice job.

But it's a season where I have a hard time being "all in" with praise, because I continue to be frustrated with Thib' bullheaded and I think incorrect decisions. Here's what I have come to realize...Thibs makes appropriate rotation decisions (like last night) only when he is forced to do so. Otherwise, given a healthy roster not in a BTB, he will continue to do three things that I think are holding us back:

-trying to force Wig to be a SF
-playing his bench way less than our competitors. and
-not playing Tyus Jones.

I first started developing my "Thibs is a very good coach only when he is forced to make moves he wouldn't normally make" theory in the first home Laker game. Zach wasn't available, and Thibs was forced to start a big lineup with Wig at SG...and we completely dominated the Lakers. Last night Zach was unavailable and we were tired from a tough game the previous night, so Thibs was forced to not make the three mistakes I list above. And look at what happens...we are the fresher team in the second half and win the half and the game! At halftime when I looked at the box score and saw that Thibs had played his bench much more than Malone, I knew we would have a great second half and win this game...our starters are better than most of our opponents when they aren't gassed.

Wig will continue to dominate the rest of the season because Zach's injury allows him to play SG where he is most effective. But as long as we are at least mathematically in the hunt for the 8th spot, Thibs needs to play Tyus and his bench to give us a chance...the results when he does this are very good.

But you know what...it ain't gonna happen. After the break, Thibs will go back to his bad rotation decisions, and we will finish with 30 wins. Sigh...
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: A battle of defensive powder puffs - Wolves@Denver GDT

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
bleedspeed177 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:

- I dig Gary Harris. He can shoot. He has a but of bounce. And he's not unplayable on defense. Plus, he's made significant improvement in each of his 3 seasons... I see that continuing.

.


What is his upside? Gerald Henderson? That was what I thought when he came out.


It's arguable that he's already better than Henderson...

Henderson's best season:
15.5 ppg / 3.7 reb / 2.6 ast / 44.7% fg / 33.0% 3fg

Harris this season:
13.4 ppg / 3.2 reb / 2.5 ast / 47.6% fg / 42.1% 3fg / (in only 29 mpg)

I'm not entirely sure who the best comp is. Potentially a Bradley Beal? I don't think he has the craftiness or handles to become McCollum-esque (with better defense). We'll see if this steady improvement stops like with Henderson or continues like with the other guys...


I think Harris is somewhere between Courtney Lee and Bradley Beal. Not sure he can ever score in volume the way Beal can.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: A battle of defensive powder puffs - Wolves@Denver GDT

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

longstrangetrip wrote:This was a good win, despite playing a team missing some key players. Let's not lose sight of the fact we were also playing without Zach and Stephenson who has really looked good to me, not to mention Adre...well, Zach and Lance at least. And we beat a good team fairly easily on the road...nice job.

But it's a season where I have a hard time being "all in" with praise, because I continue to be frustrated with Thib' bullheaded and I think incorrect decisions. Here's what I have come to realize...Thibs makes appropriate rotation decisions (like last night) only when he is forced to do so. Otherwise, given a healthy roster not in a BTB, he will continue to do three things that I think are holding us back:

-trying to force Wig to be a SF
-playing his bench way less than our competitors. and
-not playing Tyus Jones.

I first started developing my "Thibs is a very good coach only when he is forced to make moves he wouldn't normally make" theory in the first home Laker game. Zach wasn't available, and Thibs was forced to start a big lineup with Wig at SG...and we completely dominated the Lakers. Last night Zach was unavailable and we were tired from a tough game the previous night, so Thibs was forced to not make the three mistakes I list above. And look at what happens...we are the fresher team in the second half and win the half and the game! At halftime when I looked at the box score and saw that Thibs had played his bench much more than Malone, I knew we would have a great second half and win this game...our starters are better than most of our opponents when they aren't gassed.

Wig will continue to dominate the rest of the season because Zach's injury allows him to play SG where he is most effective. But as long as we are at least mathematically in the hunt for the 8th spot, Thibs needs to play Tyus and his bench to give us a chance...the results when he does this are very good.

But you know what...it ain't gonna happen. After the break, Thibs will go back to his bad rotation decisions, and we will finish with 30 wins. Sigh...


LST, The injuries to Zach and Stephenson will pretty much force Wiggins to play mostly SG (unless you think of Rush as a SG?) and for Tyus to get some run, so that checks the box on two out of your three desires.

Now perhaps Stephenson recovers quickly and is available after the ASB, but still, his situation is a bit tenuous either way.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: A battle of defensive powder puffs - Wolves@Denver GDT

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

AbeVigodaLive wrote:My usual "way-too-late-to-relevant" takeaways...

- I dig the green shoes on Wiggins. A lot. By the way, amid everything else... this marks the 2nd straight season that he showed improvement during the season. Now, I know I've pointed to stats that showed he was only on a gradual ascent, less than other elite guys... but it's a very good thing that he is finishing seasons strong after starting on the slower side. As much as it's an antiquated shot, I'd like to see just how "good" he is in the midrange. He can get that shot whenever he wants. Always.

- Towns missed so many bunnies. But it more than evened out on the other end with Jokic having one of his very worst games.

- I try not to look at the offense when Dunn is in the game. It's a mess. But I dig how, as noted, he literally rips the ball away from guys at times. I just heard the Celtics Play-by-Play guy gush about Marcus Smart and how he doesn't want him to ever be traded. Smart is Dunn on steroids. But I guess we can hope Dunn reaches his level? The scary thing is that Smart is younger.

- So Thibs prefers Belly over Dieng in the 4th? I've noticed it several times now. Yesterday it paid off a bit. There was another play not in the boxscore where Belly made a tip pass or something that was really nice, but the Wolves missed the shot.

- Jameer Nelson. 16 points. 11 assists. At 48 years old. The Nuggets are simply a better team with him on the court instead of Mudiay.

- The Wolves were fortunate (again) that so many guys were out.

- I dig Gary Harris. He can shoot. He has a but of bounce. And he's not unplayable on defense. Plus, he's made significant improvement in each of his 3 seasons... I see that continuing.

- Good win.


Good observations Abe. Speaking of Gary Harris, he's a good example of someone that started off as an offensive train wreck and has since recovered into a pretty dangerous shooter. While Dunn doesn't need to shoot 40%+ from 3 to be effective, let's hope he straightens some things out this summer.

Belly also made a nice putback basket late in the game that helped seal the win. He is normally the king of small mistakes and fumbles that add up over time, but last night he did the opposite.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: A battle of defensive powder puffs - Wolves@Denver GDT

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Q12543 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:This was a good win, despite playing a team missing some key players. Let's not lose sight of the fact we were also playing without Zach and Stephenson who has really looked good to me, not to mention Adre...well, Zach and Lance at least. And we beat a good team fairly easily on the road...nice job.

But it's a season where I have a hard time being "all in" with praise, because I continue to be frustrated with Thib' bullheaded and I think incorrect decisions. Here's what I have come to realize...Thibs makes appropriate rotation decisions (like last night) only when he is forced to do so. Otherwise, given a healthy roster not in a BTB, he will continue to do three things that I think are holding us back:

-trying to force Wig to be a SF
-playing his bench way less than our competitors. and
-not playing Tyus Jones.

I first started developing my "Thibs is a very good coach only when he is forced to make moves he wouldn't normally make" theory in the first home Laker game. Zach wasn't available, and Thibs was forced to start a big lineup with Wig at SG...and we completely dominated the Lakers. Last night Zach was unavailable and we were tired from a tough game the previous night, so Thibs was forced to not make the three mistakes I list above. And look at what happens...we are the fresher team in the second half and win the half and the game! At halftime when I looked at the box score and saw that Thibs had played his bench much more than Malone, I knew we would have a great second half and win this game...our starters are better than most of our opponents when they aren't gassed.

Wig will continue to dominate the rest of the season because Zach's injury allows him to play SG where he is most effective. But as long as we are at least mathematically in the hunt for the 8th spot, Thibs needs to play Tyus and his bench to give us a chance...the results when he does this are very good.

But you know what...it ain't gonna happen. After the break, Thibs will go back to his bad rotation decisions, and we will finish with 30 wins. Sigh...


LST, The injuries to Zach and Stephenson will pretty much force Wiggins to play mostly SG (unless you think of Rush as a SG?) and for Tyus to get some run, so that checks the box on two out of your three desires.

Now perhaps Stephenson recovers quickly and is available after the ASB, but still, his situation is a bit tenuous either way.

I'm not sure it really matters. Andrew is still going to guard the top wing of the opponent, and he's still going to draw the best defender. Zach being out really doesn't change that.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: A battle of defensive powder puffs - Wolves@Denver GDT

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

Our standards are really low/skewed when we count the absence of Lance Stephenson a loss.

He's been on the court a whopping 49 minutes for MN and only 162 minutes in NO. Small sample size? Sure. But the Wolves (and Pelicans) have been shockingly bad with him on the court rather than sitting in a chair off of it this season.
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: A battle of defensive powder puffs - Wolves@Denver GDT

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:
Q12543 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:This was a good win, despite playing a team missing some key players. Let's not lose sight of the fact we were also playing without Zach and Stephenson who has really looked good to me, not to mention Adre...well, Zach and Lance at least. And we beat a good team fairly easily on the road...nice job.

But it's a season where I have a hard time being "all in" with praise, because I continue to be frustrated with Thib' bullheaded and I think incorrect decisions. Here's what I have come to realize...Thibs makes appropriate rotation decisions (like last night) only when he is forced to do so. Otherwise, given a healthy roster not in a BTB, he will continue to do three things that I think are holding us back:

-trying to force Wig to be a SF
-playing his bench way less than our competitors. and
-not playing Tyus Jones.

I first started developing my "Thibs is a very good coach only when he is forced to make moves he wouldn't normally make" theory in the first home Laker game. Zach wasn't available, and Thibs was forced to start a big lineup with Wig at SG...and we completely dominated the Lakers. Last night Zach was unavailable and we were tired from a tough game the previous night, so Thibs was forced to not make the three mistakes I list above. And look at what happens...we are the fresher team in the second half and win the half and the game! At halftime when I looked at the box score and saw that Thibs had played his bench much more than Malone, I knew we would have a great second half and win this game...our starters are better than most of our opponents when they aren't gassed.

Wig will continue to dominate the rest of the season because Zach's injury allows him to play SG where he is most effective. But as long as we are at least mathematically in the hunt for the 8th spot, Thibs needs to play Tyus and his bench to give us a chance...the results when he does this are very good.

But you know what...it ain't gonna happen. After the break, Thibs will go back to his bad rotation decisions, and we will finish with 30 wins. Sigh...


LST, The injuries to Zach and Stephenson will pretty much force Wiggins to play mostly SG (unless you think of Rush as a SG?) and for Tyus to get some run, so that checks the box on two out of your three desires.

Now perhaps Stephenson recovers quickly and is available after the ASB, but still, his situation is a bit tenuous either way.

I'm not sure it really matters. Andrew is still going to guard the top wing of the opponent, and he's still going to draw the best defender. Zach being out really doesn't change that.


I think that's probably true, Cool, but I think what is more important is who guards Wig. With Rush starting instead of Zach, it seems that generally the shorter (and less long) defender guards Wig as the SG...and he seems to thrive offensively when he is guarded by a SG rather than a SF. I don't have to stats to prove this, but his spectacular offensive outbursts since Zach went down are just more evidence that he is more comfortable as a SG.

Q, I don't know that Zach and Lance both being out means Thibs plays Tyus. In the game he got hurt, Lance only played 3 minutes and Tyus still couldn't see the court. And last night he still only played 11 minutes. I think if (when?) Lance comes back, Tyus is banished to the bench again, and even with him out Tyus doesn't seem to get many minutes.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: A battle of defensive powder puffs - Wolves@Denver GDT

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

longstrangetrip wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
Q12543 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:This was a good win, despite playing a team missing some key players. Let's not lose sight of the fact we were also playing without Zach and Stephenson who has really looked good to me, not to mention Adre...well, Zach and Lance at least. And we beat a good team fairly easily on the road...nice job.

But it's a season where I have a hard time being "all in" with praise, because I continue to be frustrated with Thib' bullheaded and I think incorrect decisions. Here's what I have come to realize...Thibs makes appropriate rotation decisions (like last night) only when he is forced to do so. Otherwise, given a healthy roster not in a BTB, he will continue to do three things that I think are holding us back:

-trying to force Wig to be a SF
-playing his bench way less than our competitors. and
-not playing Tyus Jones.

I first started developing my "Thibs is a very good coach only when he is forced to make moves he wouldn't normally make" theory in the first home Laker game. Zach wasn't available, and Thibs was forced to start a big lineup with Wig at SG...and we completely dominated the Lakers. Last night Zach was unavailable and we were tired from a tough game the previous night, so Thibs was forced to not make the three mistakes I list above. And look at what happens...we are the fresher team in the second half and win the half and the game! At halftime when I looked at the box score and saw that Thibs had played his bench much more than Malone, I knew we would have a great second half and win this game...our starters are better than most of our opponents when they aren't gassed.

Wig will continue to dominate the rest of the season because Zach's injury allows him to play SG where he is most effective. But as long as we are at least mathematically in the hunt for the 8th spot, Thibs needs to play Tyus and his bench to give us a chance...the results when he does this are very good.

But you know what...it ain't gonna happen. After the break, Thibs will go back to his bad rotation decisions, and we will finish with 30 wins. Sigh...


LST, The injuries to Zach and Stephenson will pretty much force Wiggins to play mostly SG (unless you think of Rush as a SG?) and for Tyus to get some run, so that checks the box on two out of your three desires.

Now perhaps Stephenson recovers quickly and is available after the ASB, but still, his situation is a bit tenuous either way.

I'm not sure it really matters. Andrew is still going to guard the top wing of the opponent, and he's still going to draw the best defender. Zach being out really doesn't change that.


I think that's probably true, Cool, but I think what is more important is who guards Wig. With Rush starting instead of Zach, it seems that generally the shorter (and less long) defender guards Wig as the SG...and he seems to thrive offensively when he is guarded by a SG rather than a SF. I don't have to stats to prove this, but his spectacular offensive outbursts since Zach went down are just more evidence that he is more comfortable as a SG.

Q, I don't know that Zach and Lance both being out means Thibs plays Tyus. In the game he got hurt, Lance only played 3 minutes and Tyus still couldn't see the court. And last night he still only played 11 minutes. I think if (when?) Lance comes back, Tyus is banished to the bench again, and even with him out Tyus doesn't seem to get many minutes.

Do you think Kawhi is going to guard Rush and not Andrew? I don't see it LST.
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Monster
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Re: A battle of defensive powder puffs - Wolves@Denver GDT

Post by Monster »

Just finished this game. Good stuff

Towns won the battle between him and Jokic and both guys started out struggling badly.

Wiggins misfired a couple times but damn that guy was just doing his thing. He also made some other plays that helped his team. Dude is really playing well.

Nelson was torching Rubio and I was actually thinking Thibs should put in Dunn at the end but the Wolves played good enough D to win.

Back to dunn his defense seems to be back. What's impressive as anything is the guy goes up for rebounds you think it's a PF or something. The guy can play HUGE. If he can translate some of that crazy athletic ability to the offensive end...yikes. Love the guys defense it's great to see it coming around. Overall he seems to be back to the guy he was before that hand injury.

Bazz helped keep them in that game in the first half. He is so much fun to see play when he is doing well.
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