longstrangetrip wrote:While I think we all agree this is only a hypothetical discussion because we are not a viable trading partner for Philly, I side with bleedspeed on this one...you can't have too many front-line players. Q states that the only way Jahlil can be effective is if he has lots of touches, but I don't think we know that. We know that at every level...even in his rookie year in the NBA...he has been far and away the most effective offensive option on his team, so certainly he has had a lot of options. But playing with KAT, Wig and Zach, he would only be one of many options, and clearly his usage rate would go down. But I think we could expect him to show the same unstoppable low post moves while making over 50% of his shots...albeit on lower volume. And since he demands a lot of defensive attention, he opens things up for our other scorers who are no longer going to see as many double teams. Defensively he is only average, but as hoops said above, he's an athletic lengthy 20-year-old kid, so it's way too early to declare him a 1-way player.
Philly needs to move one of their bigs to balance their roster, and if we had available guards that they coveted, I would be all over this deal...unfortunately, we don't, so this deal isn't a possibility.
How was Okafor's passing this year? I didn't see enough of him to know. That was a strength coming out of college it seemed he was going to be much better than say Al Jefferson was.
Well, it's nice in this dead time of the year to have a heated debate about something that will never happen!
LST, I don't see how Okafor "opens things up" when his best spot on the floor is to be planted on the low box. OK, so he draws a double team once in a while. I'm sure teams will be intimidated by all of our elite stand-still shooters we have parked out beyond the arc!
Okafor does the opposite of opening things up. He clogs the paint and makes it more difficult for guys like Wiggins, LaVine, Rubio, and Dunn to get into the paint and make a play. His defender will inevitably be the opposing team's Center. Now instead of having to chase KAT all over the place, he can park in the paint and stay close to the rim.
Philly was much worse on both ends of the court when Okafor was in the game last year - his net On/Off rating was -10. I realize that rookies have struggles, especially defensively, but those numbers have to be troubling. He made his team worse on both ends. The offense AND defense was better when he was on the bench.
And to counter Bleed's point, I believe the team is beyond the "collection of assets" phase and now firmly into the "build a team" phase, where things like fit, attitude, and playing style are important criteria to consider. Okafor doesn't make us a better team.
Q12543 wrote:Well, it's nice in this dead time of the year to have a heated debate about something that will never happen!
LST, I don't see how Okafor "opens things up" when his best spot on the floor is to be planted on the low box. OK, so he draws a double team once in a while. I'm sure teams will be intimidated by all of our elite stand-still shooters we have parked out beyond the arc!
Okafor does the opposite of opening things up. He clogs the paint and makes it more difficult for guys like Wiggins, LaVine, Rubio, and Dunn to get into the paint and make a play. His defender will inevitably be the opposing team's Center. Now instead of having to chase KAT all over the place, he can park in the paint and stay close to the rim.
Philly was much worse on both ends of the court when Okafor was in the game last year - his net On/Off rating was -10. I realize that rookies have struggles, especially defensively, but those numbers have to be troubling. He made his team worse on both ends. The offense AND defense was better when he was on the bench.
And to counter Bleed's point, I believe the team is beyond the "collection of assets" phase and now firmly into the "build a team" phase, where things like fit, attitude, and playing style are important criteria to consider. Okafor doesn't make us a better team.
Okafor may end up being a more well rounded player than you suggest Q. The guy is 20 but the question regardless of where he ends up is how much more well rounded does his game get and can a team compliment him.
I agree both that you get as much talent as possible and also you have to build a team. This isn't fantasy sports but talent wins.
I could see Okafor fitting with players on this roster. Toens can fit with anyone so that pairing could be pretty sweet it's like having a more talented and much bigger version of Love and Al Jefferson in your front court. That could be fun to see. Rubio and Okafor might actually work fine. After that I'm not sure. It's unlikely we will find out which is fine.
Q, I think a low-post scorer who both attracts double teams and knows how to pass out of them sets up the most efficient shot in basketball...the open 3-point shot. Okafor was not a great passer as a rookie, but I was impressed with his ability to find the open shooter when I watched him in a few summer league games in 2015. And let's not denigrate the Wolves' 3-point shooting...they're young and didn't have enough volume last year, but they did rank second in the NBA in 3-point percentage the last half of last season. It's logical to conclude that they could improve on last year's 3-point shooting if they were able to add a guy like Okafor.
But since the deal isn't going to happen, let me continue the optimism using our current roster. KAT may be even better than Okafor at finding the open shooter, and also commands double teams when he gets the ball down low. I'm hoping Thibs is aware of how accurate our 3-point shooters were the last half of last season (especially ZAch, Wig and Belly), and makes use of KAT's passing skills by using an inside-out offense more frequently.
JasonIsDaMan wrote:Dieng/Shabazz/Jones/Payne for Okafor/Mcconnell/Covington/AFirstThatCanBeUsedIn2018. That clears a roster spot for Stephenson if that is the way Thibs wants to go. That's really the only way it works for me. Still not my favorite.
Philly will never do it.
Probably not. But I've said it before and I'll say it again: How excited am I supposed to get about the "talent" on one of the 5 worst teams in NBA history?
BizarroJerry wrote:No thanks Okafor, don't need another one-trick pony. Having KAT play center gives us a smaller, quicker lineup.
hmm...there've been some pretty good one-trick ponies. Mariano Rivera comes to mind.
That said, monster nailed it above. We're not a good trading partner for Philly because we're both long in bigs (although the jury is still way out on several of them) and short on guards. Fun discussion with lots of differing opinions, but this one isn't going to happen.
No fair. Baseball is a sport that thrives on specialization. A more fair comparison to Okafor at this point: Danny Heatley. All they could do was score, and not the guy you want driving home.
BizarroJerry wrote:No thanks Okafor, don't need another one-trick pony. Having KAT play center gives us a smaller, quicker lineup.
hmm...there've been some pretty good one-trick ponies. Mariano Rivera comes to mind.
That said, monster nailed it above. We're not a good trading partner for Philly because we're both long in bigs (although the jury is still way out on several of them) and short on guards. Fun discussion with lots of differing opinions, but this one isn't going to happen.
No fair. Baseball is a sport that thrives on specialization. A more fair comparison to Okafor at this point: Danny Heatley. All they could do was score, and not the guy you want driving home.
BizarroJerry wrote:No thanks Okafor, don't need another one-trick pony. Having KAT play center gives us a smaller, quicker lineup.
hmm...there've been some pretty good one-trick ponies. Mariano Rivera comes to mind.
That said, monster nailed it above. We're not a good trading partner for Philly because we're both long in bigs (although the jury is still way out on several of them) and short on guards. Fun discussion with lots of differing opinions, but this one isn't going to happen.
No fair. Baseball is a sport that thrives on specialization. A more fair comparison to Okafor at this point: Danny Heatley. All they could do was score, and not the guy you want driving home.
So you are saying if JR Smith can play defense for at least a few weeks Okafor can do it too?
