AbeVigodaLive wrote:In the interest of both sides... was ANYTHING said that wasn't overly glowing praise?
I acknowledge that the very nature of the hire and media news cycle is going to lead to more praiseworthy comments... I'm just asking because you were clearly on one side of this debate.
Kornheiser and Wilbon weren't all that favorable on PTI yesterday, although there were some positive comments also. Neither of them liked the idea of putting all the basketball power with Thibs, and Kornheiser talked about Thibs' reputation for running players into the ground. Kornheiser predicted thibs might be fires within 3 years (my biggest fear...the last thing this franchise needs) and Wilbon suggested the Wolves would win 41-2 games mext year. Since the Wolves were nearly a .500 club the last half of this year, I think most of us would have been disappointed if Sam had only led them to 41 wins next season.
That said, I really like the summary of quotes Cam assembled...really good stuff. I eapecialy love the tweets that Thibs says he has learned the value of rest for his players...that's my greatest wish for him. I also liked that Deng wants to play for thibs again. If Thibs teaches our guys to play defense, lightens up his practice schedule, and brings in Deng, this hiring is a total home run.
Wish I could remember who said it yesterday, but the comment was the Wolves could have made the playoffs this year if they had a different coach. So maybe Sam did us all a favor by allowing one more year of positioning for a high draft pick. Could be part of his legacy as coach here.
But the point I'm trying to make is 41 wins is not going to cut it next year. This team should make a dramatic improvement, maybe even get to the 2nd round of the playoffs.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Wish I could remember who said it yesterday, but the comment was the Wolves could have made the playoffs this year if they had a different coach. So maybe Sam did us all a favor by allowing one more year of positioning for a high draft pick. Could be part of his legacy as coach here.
But the point I'm trying to make is 41 wins is not going to cut it next year. This team should make a dramatic improvement, maybe even get to the 2nd round of the playoffs.
Not sure I agree. It depends on who they sign as FAs, as getting someone like Deng would be a huge move vs. going more conservative/cheaper.
Also, we always talk about the Western Conference getting weaker, yet teams like Dallas and Portland seem to always be able to figure out ways to patch together competitive squads. These other teams aren't going to stop moving either.
"Someone who knows Thibs well claims he has learned that rest is important for his players." - @DWolfsonKSTP
....This is starting to get old. Thibs was an assistant coach for 20 years and head coach for 5 years. He played his very best players, who were in their 20s at the time, a lot of minutes. Gasp!
While I realize some newer thinking has come into the equation on the NBA health & wellness front, the idea that Thibs is solely responsible for the Bulls injury problems seems too simplistic of a take. Like so many other things, luck (or lack thereof) is a big factor too.
I'm not suggesting that he hasn't picked up some new ideas along the way after his "consulting" tour this past year, but I feel like the playing time issue is getting overblown.
Q12543 wrote:"Someone who knows Thibs well claims he has learned that rest is important for his players." - @DWolfsonKSTP
....This is starting to get old. Thibs was an assistant coach for 20 years and head coach for 5 years. He played his very best players, who were in their 20s at the time, a lot of minutes. Gasp!
While I realize some newer thinking has come into the equation on the NBA health & wellness front, the idea that Thibs is solely responsible for the Bulls injury problems seems too simplistic of a take. Like so many other things, luck (or lack thereof) is a big factor too.
I'm not suggesting that he hasn't picked up some new ideas along the way after his "consulting" tour this past year, but I feel like the playing time issue is getting overblown.
A local sports radio hack (Dan Cole) made the same point yesterday, but I think he misunderstood what it means when pundits say Thibs overworked his players. I don't think this has anything to do with game minutes...I agree that has little to do with a player's ability to stay fresh and healthy (although I do subscribe to the Pop method of allowing his stars to skip games now and then). What Thibs' players apparently complained about (most off the record, but at least Noah publicly) was the intensity and frequency of Thibs' practices during the season. Noah said back in 2013 that Thibs didn't understand the concept of rest. Players hurt the morning after a game, and sometimes what they need most is a day off rather than another practice with full-speed scrimmaging. I watched a couple of Sam's practices last season, and they consisted primarily of teaching, shooting practice and walking through plays (plus some fun competitive contests that the players loved)...the practices I saw allowed the players to heal. I never watched a Saunders practice, but my understanding was that they were similar, and that Thibs is an outlier when it comes to practices. I have never heard a player complain because a coach played him too many minutes during a game, but they will grumble when they have to practice the next day. If this Wolfson quote means that Thibs has learned a lesson since his firing, and he is ready to lighten up on practices during the season, it will make him that much better a coach. I don't really care if he plays Wig and KAT 38 minutes unless it looks like it is impacting them negatively, but he needs to lighten up between games.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Wish I could remember who said it yesterday, but the comment was the Wolves could have made the playoffs this year if they had a different coach. So maybe Sam did us all a favor by allowing one more year of positioning for a high draft pick. Could be part of his legacy as coach here.
But the point I'm trying to make is 41 wins is not going to cut it next year. This team should make a dramatic improvement, maybe even get to the 2nd round of the playoffs.
David Thorpe said it on a TrueHoop podcast yesterday. And 41 probably doesn't make the playoffs next year, but I think this team will be sniffing 50 wins. Replacing Mitchell with Thibodeau is probably worth 10-15 wins alone. Coaching matters, as we all know. Add in whatever moves we make in free agency, how we use our draft pick, and almost-assured improvement from our young players and I think 50's a realistic expectation.
LST's brought up the Noah comment several times, so I'll post the original source of where he's getting that from. Let me just say that LST's not really telling the whole story either. Noah was dealing with an injury and the team had just won against the Nets while being shorthanded (starters were: Hinrich, Belinelli, Deng, Boozer, Noah -- of course Deng and Noah were playing big minutes).
From Sam Smith of Bulls.com:
"I saw the way the game was going," said Thibodeau. "You're jogging back. They've got a lot of three point shooting on the floor. A 10-point lead can dissipate in a minute. You knock down three threes, you get a foul, boom. And then we were in the penalty; we're recklessly fouling. We've got to do better."
"What do you want me to say? Yeah, I'm tired, pretty tired," Noah offered with a shrug. "Working on (his plantar fasciitis) every day, massages, lots of treatments, doing everything possible to keep it under control. It's not really right after the game (you feel tired). It's the next morning that's the roughest.
"We've got a great coach," Noah said as he began to smile and let out a laugh and you know one of those subtle, understated zingers was coming. "But he doesn't understand the whole rest thing yet I don't think. But it's all good. We all want to win. It's good."
As of now... without knowing what's to come in FA or with rookies... I have them at about 44 wins. I'm totally aware I'm usually on the low end among prognosticators. But the team has largely the foundation already in place. It's not about a new guy or two that can create an immediate impact like Shaq, James, Garnett/Allen or even Steve Nash.
And they improved by 13 games this past season. I look to similar growth next season. Remember, the 2016 Wolves were extremely healthy.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Wish I could remember who said it yesterday, but the comment was the Wolves could have made the playoffs this year if they had a different coach. So maybe Sam did us all a favor by allowing one more year of positioning for a high draft pick. Could be part of his legacy as coach here.
But the point I'm trying to make is 41 wins is not going to cut it next year. This team should make a dramatic improvement, maybe even get to the 2nd round of the playoffs.
David Thorpe said it on a TrueHoop podcast yesterday. And 41 probably doesn't make the playoffs next year, but I think this team will be sniffing 50 wins. Replacing Mitchell with Thibodeau is probably worth 10-15 wins alone. Coaching matters, as we all know. Add in whatever moves we make in free agency, how we use our draft pick, and almost-assured improvement from our young players and I think 50's a realistic expectation.
Your point about Thibs being worth 10-15 wins is why I think the absolute floor has to be at least 52 wins. The 2009-10 Thunder improved 27 wins despite keeping the same coach. Why did they improve so much? Primarily because Durant and Westbrook entered their third and second years, respectively, and that's when most NBA stars take their biggest leap. Since our roster is at the same point as OkC was with most of our stars entering years 2-4, we should have been expecting a 10 game improvement over the nearly .500 basketball they were playing the last half of the year...even without a coaching change. Add in another lottery pick, one or two key free agents, improvement from Belly, and a coach who has a winning pedigree, and we shouldn't be satisfied with 50. There's no reason we shouldn't replicate what OkC did the season its stars matured.
Instead of wins, I prefer to think of it in terms of points.
The Wolves won 28 games at a minus 3.5. Portland won 44 at a plus .8. So 4.5 points. OK, start with a healthy Pek/KG. Then add the #5 pick (I prefer Sabonnis, every one has somebody they prefer). Then add a decent coach. If KG doesn't retire and they decline their option on Rudez, they are at 11 players signed at $63.6m (approx. $25.4m in cap space). So maybe one really good FA (back-up PG?), and two bench guys. Unless they really like someone at #43, then one really good FA and one not-so-much FA.
