Jimmy Butler

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Pekovic has $23.7M left on his contract. Bennett had about $11M left on his contract when he was dealt.

Again, the math...

I'm not even in favor of trading LaVine and the No. 5 pick, first of all.

Second of all, you're trying to compare a deal of No. 5 pick -- in a widely-viewed weak draft class -- and an injury prone 30-year old center with two-years, $23.7M left on his contract to a deal centered around the No. 1 pick in the draft -- a strong draft -- and a 21-year old with roughly $11M left on his deal. That's comparing a horse to a dog, or cheesecake to an oatmeal cream pie. It's not the same and shouldn't even be compared. I don't understand why you think it's even remotely close to the same value.

Again, we don't know if our pick is #1 or #6. And again, I wouldn't say this only a two person draft yet. They were saying the same thing last year at this time and now that Porzingis kid is looking like a nice player in addition to Towns/Okafor. Let's see how things start changing as we get closer. It's my opinion that LaVine plus our pick would be too much to give for Butler at this time.

And lastly, I'm 100% confident you wouldn't speak to me in person the same way you are typing. That's "Old Cam" coming back. Not a shock. But I'm pretty sure once you sober up and think about it tomorrow morning - you'll better understand the comparison I was making. We need to have a Enjin Forum get together so I can put a face to some of you. Are you local? Would love to meet up for that math lesson....

1. The poster who initiated this thread said that he wouldn't make the trade until after the lottery.

2. I've already stated several times on the board and once in this very thread that I wouldn't trade LaVine + No. 5 for Butler, that deal is too rich for my liking. We agree there even though you responded like we don't.

3. I took issue with you arguing that the Wiggins/Love trade is comparable to your hypothetical trade involving our first rounder and Pekovic for Butler. That's just no where near the same value or same situation. If you'd like to argue your case some more, we can certainly do that. It's just really difficult to get my mind around why you think that's the same type of trade because it's not.

4. What have I said to you that you're getting pissy about? I called your response to someone smug? It was certainly written that way with the "oh, right, that's never happened before" attitude. It was so very off. Or was it me saying your math was off when it was? Either way, I don't see the problem and would 100% say both things in person.

5. You're the only one that has had a real problem with me as of late. I've had disagreements with Cool recently and they fizzle out before they get to the point you're taking this. I don't drink, by the way, but how polite of you to assume that I'm intoxicated when dismantling your awful trade proposal.

6. I'd be delighted to have an Enjin Forum get-together. What a splendid idea. There are some very interesting people on here whose company I would likely enjoy. If you getting worked up over the argument we're having in this thread is an indication of your personality, then I could see me shaking your hand and being on my way.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

Zach and the #5? Ahh Hellzzzz noooo....

[Monster]

Butler is awesome, but I have three concerns with a trade involving LaVine:

1) Butler is a little redundant with Wiggins - better defender, but ultimately worse offensively. It's been a bit of a slog for Butler to get to the level he's at offensively, yet Wiggins is already at that level in Year 2. And defensively, you have to believe Thibs will coach Wiggins up to be the defender many of us hoped he could become.

2) Butler's 3-point shot, like Wiggins, is a little inconsistent. LaVine on the other hand appears to be trending toward being one of the elite shooters in the NBA. It's his jump shot more than his dunking (which he hardly ever does in half court sets anyway) that will be his calling card. That's really important playing next to Wiggins and Rubio. Watching LaVine effortlessly drain corner jumpers in the second half of the season was a sight to behold given our sordid history as a 3-point shooting team!

3) When was the last time Butler played more than 67 games?

I like Butler, but I don't see how he complements the current roster. And I also think he sees himself as an alpha dog #1 player. That would create tension on a team with KAT and Wiggins, two guys whose personalities really complement each other well and need the space to begin asserting themselves more and more as the future leaders of the team.

I don't think any of these other ideas thrown out there, from Horford, to Favors, to Deng, etc. really crowd out the Wiggins/KAT duo. Butler would disrupt the pecking order in a way I'm not sure works in the long run.

You pretty much covered it. No way I do a Lavine AND whatever pick we had for Butler.

Also I'll cover it here no way the Bulls do #5 and Pek for Butler. If they did I would be worried what the hell was wrong with Butler they were willing to do that deal.

Honestly I think Thibs and Layden are smart and they will sit tight and pick the best player they can get with that pick and add some vets in FA. It's the last chance the franchise will have in a bunch of years to get a top 10 pick. Get an embarrassment of riches of young talent and count on your coaching and smart evaluation of guys you can get in FA not pay a premium to get a vet guy by dealing a pick to get it.

[Duke13]

I wanted to stay out of this but couldn't resist. I wouldn't do the above mentioned deal either but find it funny that Cam finds that trade laughable but would trade Simmons for Favors. Cmon dude.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I wanted to stay out of this but couldn't resist. I wouldn't do the above mentioned deal either but find it funny that Cam finds that trade laughable but would trade Simmons for Favors. Cmon dude.

Ben Simmons is a god. All hail Australia. Deport Ricky Rubio immediately. I will never agree with Camden0916 ever.

- Duke13

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

I think its short sighted. KAT, Wiggins and Zach are like brothers and they have many years to play together. i want to see the brothers grow up together and win rings together. Getting Butler is like hiring a mercenary. He'd cost us plenty and his personality might not fit in so well with our core. If we want a mercenary, we can always go after a free agent. Next year there will be even more big names available than this year.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

Also Butler has chronic injury issues. In 5 years, he's only had one season that he played more than 67 games.

[Lipoli390]

LST, the reason I would pull the trigger is because while I think LaVine could become as good as Butler offensively, I don't think LaVine will ever get to where Butler is defensively. We'd be adding an All-Star SG in the early parts of his prime, a guy who would also fit well with what we have, and could help teach the young guys Tib's system, as well as bolster our defense and help turn this thing around on that end.

First of all, I'm not sure why anyone associated with or supporting the Wolves would consider trading Zach. We all saw him blossom after the all-star break when he was finally allowed to play his natural position. He is one of the fastest guys with the ball in the League who can jump out of the gym while maintaining excellent body control. He's also a terrific perimeter shooter. A rare combination of speed, great athleticism AND excellent perimeter shooting. He's also proven to be a decent passer with a tremendous work ethic - known as a gym rat - and therefore, at age 21, he has a high probability of getting much better. And he hasn't even had the chance to be coached up by an elite head coach like Thibs. In addition, he has great chemistry with Towns and Wiggins. And since those three are all about the same age, they're in a position to peak together and form a core trio that can contend for a championship for years.

As for his defense, all I can say is that Flip told me he drafted him him in large part because he thought he could become a really good defender. And he didn't just base that on Zach's athleticism or great lateral quickness. Flip based it on Zach's statistical performance defensively in college. Given Flip's reputation as a top basketball mind and his track record so far with draft picks, I'd say his view of Zach's defensive potential is significant.

I'll add that Thibs will teach Thibs' system just like he did in Chicago.

[Coolbreeze44]

LST, the reason I would pull the trigger is because while I think LaVine could become as good as Butler offensively, I don't think LaVine will ever get to where Butler is defensively. We'd be adding an All-Star SG in the early parts of his prime, a guy who would also fit well with what we have, and could help teach the young guys Tib's system, as well as bolster our defense and help turn this thing around on that end.

First of all, I'm not sure why anyone associated with or supporting the Wolves would consider trading Zach. We all saw him blossom after the all-star break when he was finally allowed to play his natural position. He is one of the fastest guys with the ball in the League who can jump out of the gym while maintaining excellent body control. He's also a terrific perimeter shooter. A rare combination of speed, great athleticism AND excellent perimeter shooting. He's also proven to be a decent passer with a tremendous work ethic - known as a gym rat - and therefore, at age 21, he has a high probability of getting much better. And he hasn't even had the chance to be coached up by an elite head coach like Thibs. In addition, he has great chemistry with Towns and Wiggins. And since those three are all about the same age, they're in a position to peak together and form a core trio that can contend for a championship for years.

As for his defense, all I can say is that Flip told me he drafted him him in large part because he thought he could become a really good defender. And he didn't just base that on Zach's athleticism or great lateral quickness. Flip based it on Zach's statistical performance defensively in college. Given Flip's reputation as a top basketball mind and his track record so far with draft picks, I'd say his view of Zach's defensive potential is significant.

I'll add that Thibs will teach Thibs' system just like he did in Chicago.

Like what you wrote here Lip. All of our young core needs to be given the opportunity to play under Thibs. Let's exhibit some patience here and see how we look this year. I'd be willing to shop our draft pick for a good young veteran, but I don't want to see any of our young stars traded at this point.

[mrhockey89]

LST, the reason I would pull the trigger is because while I think LaVine could become as good as Butler offensively, I don't think LaVine will ever get to where Butler is defensively. We'd be adding an All-Star SG in the early parts of his prime, a guy who would also fit well with what we have, and could help teach the young guys Tib's system, as well as bolster our defense and help turn this thing around on that end.

First of all, I'm not sure why anyone associated with or supporting the Wolves would consider trading Zach. We all saw him blossom after the all-star break when he was finally allowed to play his natural position. He is one of the fastest guys with the ball in the League who can jump out of the gym while maintaining excellent body control. He's also a terrific perimeter shooter. A rare combination of speed, great athleticism AND excellent perimeter shooting. He's also proven to be a decent passer with a tremendous work ethic - known as a gym rat - and therefore, at age 21, he has a high probability of getting much better. And he hasn't even had the chance to be coached up by an elite head coach like Thibs. In addition, he has great chemistry with Towns and Wiggins. And since those three are all about the same age, they're in a position to peak together and form a core trio that can contend for a championship for years.

As for his defense, all I can say is that Flip told me he drafted him him in large part because he thought he could become a really good defender. And he didn't just base that on Zach's athleticism or great lateral quickness. Flip based it on Zach's statistical performance defensively in college. Given Flip's reputation as a top basketball mind and his track record so far with draft picks, I'd say his view of Zach's defensive potential is significant.

I'll add that Thibs will teach Thibs' system just like he did in Chicago.

Lip, I agree with all of what you say about LaVine offensively. I think he could become fairly elite offensively. Where I'm going to disagree is the defense. I understand that Flip told you he thinks he has the ability to become a really good defender, but I would trust Flip a lot more for his offensive mind than his defensive mind. With that said, I think Zach has some physical tools that could make him a good defender, but the reason I don't see it happening is that I don't think he has the mentality of reading the play defensively. Can Thibodeau coach that up? Maybe. Nature vs nurture, but I just don't know if I see it. Maybe I'll be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. Butler is the bird in hand, however.