Wolves Hire Thibs

[Duke13]

Not gonna happen, so I'm gonna use an ole Tibbs quote that I always love, "enjoy the process" Cam!

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=15281730

Zach Lowe and Tom Haberstroh on it too.

Thibs talk starts around the 41:00 mark. The first 40 or so minutes are about the NBA Playoffs first round. Lowe's mainly talking about how Thibs will be as a decision maker and/or how much power he really has. Haberstroh's curious about if the Wolves will try to start winning now or keep building for the future. I'm puzzled by that mainly because you can do both if you're not a moron. Lowe's worried about him not changing his ways in terms of understanding his players limits. He then follows it up by saying, "If you can get Tom Thibodeau to coach your team, you go get Tom Thibodeau to coach your team." Says it was a no-brainer hire (yoo-hoo, some on this board said the same thing). Haberstroh keeps comparing us to the Pelicans, which I think is entirely off base. The Pels have one star prospect. We have three, potentially four depending on where we land in the draft as well as several other young players.

That's about as much as I got from this. Nothing all that great, but Lowe's definitely in favor of the hire, as are most people surrounding the NBA community.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

As long as Thibs listens to Arnie and gives him final say on what guys are fit to play I think this could work out fantastic for the team. Arnie is a wizard at keeping guys healthy so let him do his thing and let Thibs coach them up and that would be a great combo moving forward. I'll get worried if it comes out Thibs ignores Arnie or ends up firing him which he has the power to do as POBO.

[TheFuture]

I wish I was more excited about these moves than I currently am.
You could feel that our young team was finally clicking at the end of the year, and buying into Sam's style.
I'm worried that this sets their progress back a year, particularly LaVine. I was on board with one more year of Sam, and then looking for a new coach if that didn't pan out. We play like shit all year and see no change, then see a change after we play .500 ball and beat a Warrior team that was hunting for the record, treating all of the games like the playoffs.

Towns will be good with whoever is coaching. Dieng I see excelling, as well as Shabazz. Wiggins could very well benefit from Thibs approach, or he could cave. The LaVine scenario is worrisome. He doesn't have the greatest Bball IQ, and seems to thrive when he's thinking less. He was finally doing that after 3/4 of a year in Sam's system, call it more than that if you want to include Flips time coaching. I can see Thibs getting frustrated with LaVine and putting him back in a bench role. That'd be tough on a kid to go through 3 times in 3 years. Also, how will Rubios game work in a slowed down Thib's style offense? If we don't see vastly improved 3 point shooting from our team as a whole then I worry we will become a bit anemic on that side.

That post by Lip from Layden is particularly bad. I know the Knicks owner is one of the worst, but that either says Layden is a pushover and deferred to his boss constantly, or that he didn't make any good personnel decisions in all of his years there. I don't want anymore of that when the last 3 years have been wonderful in that aspect. Change is good, but too much change can ruin a good thing. Here's to hoping we didn't make one too many moves. I wouldn't have been bothered with letting good decisions play out a bit more before we decided to overhaul. If there are any player trades with any of our top 6 this offseason/regular season I won't be happy. That's Rubio, Towns, Wiggins, LaVine, Dieng, Shabazz in case you were wondering.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Listen to the first 20 minutes of this and tell me this doesn't get you excited. David Thorpe is one of the smartest basketball guys out there, he and Windhurst are drooling over this move. I like when Thorpe said we should take the slow approach with this roster.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/play?id=15281177

Thorpe thought it was smart, manages to insult the franchise before saying, "At worst you're getting a fantastic basketball coach that helps his players play better, play harder, play smarter, understand how to win, and that means as a team he wins games." Says Glen Taylor could/should be more reluctant to sell the team now that there's a high profile coach and "Hall of Fame talent" at multiple positions. Thorpe said this team, 2015-16 Wolves, would have been a playoff team this year with any legitimate coaching. I agree with that take.

Windhorst still sounds like Jonah Hill's second cousin. Wonders if we'll try to accelerate the movement and use some cap space. Basically, the same thing that Lowe talked about. Thorpe says that maybe Thibs will make some mistakes evaluating talent, but he's so damn good at coaching up talent that they'll play much better. He also says to get some cheaper talent this off-season in free agency and let Thibs coach them up better than they are (note: this follows the Bazemore/Turner level FA that I would really like). He also says that Wiggins has Kawhi Leonard type potential on defense, that he's a much better athlete than Leonard (agreed) and that it isn't even close. Says Rubio is top-three defensively for his position (agreed). Says Towns is gonna be an elite level center defensively and can play some four (duh). He could see Minnesota as a top-five defensive team in 2017, which I also agree with.

Windhorst says it'd be a mistake for the Bulls to move Jimmy Butler, but then presents the scenario of trading the No. 5 pick AND Zach LaVine for Butler, which will never happen because that's one-sided in favor of Chicago and Thibs isn't a dummy, nor is Layden. Windhorst thinks Dieng has "big time upside" and maybe you pair him with the pick for Butler. Also says he thinks it'd be interesting to see how negotiations would go with a Thibs-led Wolves and the Bulls. I'd be in favor of acquiring Butler, and I said I'd trade No. 3 + Shabazz Muhammad for him in a different thread, but there's no way I move LaVine for him.

Windhorst said that Thibs had been chasing this job for MONTHS. Thorpe says to stay patient and let Thibs coach up the talent that we have now. Not a bad take, but I say go get some more help and let's get in the playoffs and make some noise without blowing up the farm.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

As long as Thibs listens to Arnie and gives him final say on what guys are fit to play I think this could work out fantastic for the team. Arnie is a wizard at keeping guys healthy so let him do his thing and let Thibs coach them up and that would be a great combo moving forward. I'll get worried if it comes out Thibs ignores Arnie or ends up firing him which he has the power to do as POBO.

+1

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

http://kfan.iheart.com/media/play/26925744/

This is the link to what 60Win was talking about. I'll listen and jot down some thoughts as I listen, but at the moment I can't. I will edit this, though.

Edit:

First off, there's a lot of praise for Glen Taylor with this move. It's a big-time, no nonsense, bold, big league money, marquee name type of move that he's not really used to as an owner. He does deserve praise and credit for having the courage to do this. We know it's outside of his comfort zone, but he did it anyway.

[60WinTim]

Thanks, Cam. The Cowley interview starts at about the 59 minute mark. LST should listen to this!

[Monster]

Wow. Power couple. We are a legit franchise. Maybe this was Taylor's last play before selling? He is set to make a pretty penny on his 80 million dollar investment.

Go Wolves!!!

I've thought about this very angle a few times. How much more does this franchise seem like it's worth now with a top HC and a legit experienced basketball executive? If these guys get this team in the playoffs next year Glen will be looking good and so will the price of his team.

I agree with all of this, except I think something deeper was at play here: His legacy. When one gets up in age like Glen, money begins to play a lesser role in one's motivation. I think he finally realized that he had to change his natural instinct for comfortable, close-to-home type moves and pull out all the stops. The speed and decisiveness in which he has moved has blown me away.

Great point

[Monster]

Here's a review from Wikipedia of Layden's tenure with the Knicks. You might get a bit nauseous, so have a bucket in front of you when your reading:

General Manager of the New York Knicks[edit]

Layden was the New York Knicks executive vice president and general manager from 1999-2001, and the president and general manager of the organization from 2001-2003.[3] The Knicks under Layden's watch (and of his successor Isiah Thomas) were called the "Worst Franchise in Sports" by ESPN.com.[4]

The 1999-00 NBA Season[edit]

Layden took over as general manager of the Knicks after the strike-shortened, Cinderella-story season of 1998-99 that saw the team make history by becoming the first #8 seed in a conference to reach the NBA Finals.[5] He replaced interim GM Ed Tapscott, who had already used the team's selection in the 1999 NBA Draft to take injured Frenchman Frédéric Weis with the team's first round pick over Ron Artest.

The new GM of the Knicks made his first notable transaction when he signed controversial shooting guard Latrell Sprewell to a five-year, $61.9 million contract extension that would keep him in a Knick uniform through the 2003-04 season, although he would later be traded.[6] Sprewell was a highly touted basketball talent, but he ran into off court issues with his former organization the Golden State Warriors when he was accused of strangling then head coach P. J. Carlesimo during a practice. Soon after becoming a member of the Knicks, Sprewell was involved in a car crash that saw him, "drive his Mercedes-Benz on a freeway from an exit lane".[7]

The 2000-01 NBA Season - Team Record: 48-34[edit]

August 1, 2000 saw Layden make his second big move when he re-signed free agent power forward Kurt Thomas to a 3-year, $13M contract extension with a 1-year team option.

On September 20, the Knicks GM traded veteran, all-star, and team captain center Patrick Ewing to the Seattle SuperSonics in a four-team deal that saw back-up center Chris Dudley and the Knicks 2001 first-round draft pick go to the Phoenix Suns, in return for forwards Glen Rice & Lazaro Borrell, guard Vernon Maxwell, centers Luc Longley, Travis Knight, Vladimir Stepania, a 2001 first-round draft pick from the Los Angeles Lakers, a 2002 first-round draft pick from the Seattle SuperSonics, and two 2001 second-round draft picks. Rice played in 75 games, averaging 12 points-per-game for New York before being traded to Houston. Knight appeared in 126 games over three seasons, averaging less than 9 minutes per-game. Longley played in 25 games for the Knicks averaging 2 points and 2.6 rebounds, while Borrell, Maxwell, & Stepania never saw action for the team. Ewing's production had decreased due to age and chronic injury over the past few seasons, and team brass felt that a deal was in the best interest of the future of the organization.

On January 30, 2001, guard Erick Strickland and a first and second-round draft pick from the Ewing trade was sent to the Vancouver Grizzlies for back-up forward/center Othella Harrington. Harrington would go to play in 237 games for New York while only starting in 77.[8] Vancouver would take Jamaal Tinsley with the 27th-pick in the draft acquired from New York.

February 22 saw guard Chris Childs and the other first-round draft pick sent to the Toronto Raptors in exchange for aging guards Mark Jackson and Muggsy Bogues. Bogues would never appear in a game for the Knicks, while Jackson would play less than two full seasons for the team that originally made him the 18th pick in the 1987 draft.

The 2001-02 NBA Season - Team Record: 30-52[edit]

With the Knicks no longer having a first round draft pick in the 2001 NBA Draft, Layden used the team's two second round picks on Michael Wright of Arizona (39th overall) and center Eric Chenowith of Kansas (43rd overall). Neither player ever saw action in the NBA.[9]

On July 23, Knicks shooting guard Allan Houston re-signed as a free agent to a 6-year, $100M guaranteed contract that would keep him in New York until the 2006-07 season, when he would be 35. The signing made Houston, who had never averaged 20-points-per-game in a season at that time, the highest-paid player in franchise history.[10] This transaction put the team "well over $80 million in payroll this season [2001]." [11] Houston retired after the 2004-05 season with chronic knee complications; there was roughly $40,000,000 left on his contract.[12]

Less than a month later, on August 10, Glen Rice was traded to the Houston Rockets and guard Muggsy Bogues to the Dallas Mavericks as part of a three-team deal in exchange for guard Howard Eisley from the Mavericks and forward Shandon Anderson from the Rockets. On paper this trade looks merely like a swap of average NBA players, but this was not the case. Eisley would end up playing in 154 games for Knicks, providing adequate numbers at the point guard position, but he was currently in the second year of a 7-year, $41 Million contract that he signed by Layden's former organization, the Utah Jazz. At the same time, Anderson, another former member of the Jazz was in the first year of a 6-year, $42 Million contract that he signed with the Rockets, which extended through the 2006-07 season. Anderson played in 245 games for the knicks over four seasons before being waived due to poor performance; he averaged less than 3 rebounds and 8 points-per-game during his stay. In comparison to the contracts New York gave up, Bogues was in the second year of a 4-year $8 Million contract with the fourth year being a team option, and Rice was under contract for three more years and $27 Million.[13] The trade proved to be a bad financial decision as the team was well over the salary cap limit.

Layden's next major move came after the unexpected resignation of head coach Jeff Van Gundy on December 8. Don Chaney was selected as an interim coach for the remainder of the 2001-02 season. After the team went 20-43 .317% under his command, he was given a contract extension for the following season.

The 2002-03 NBA Season - Team Record: 37-45[edit]

The biggest move that Layden made during the 2002-03 season was completed on draft night. After selecting Nenê with the 7th pick in the 2002 NBA draft, he was immediately traded along with Marcus Camby and Mark Jackson to the Denver Nuggets in return for power forward Antonio McDyess, the draft rights to guard Frank Williams and a 2003 second-round draft pick.[14] McDyess, a former #2 draft pick, was already limited to role-player status due to chronic injury; He played only 18 games for the Knicks. Williams was a disappointment from the beginning, his Knick career lasted 65 games with only three starts. On the other end of this transaction, Denver received a solid NBA player in power forward/center Marcus Camby. Camby had averaged a double-double (at least 10 rebounds and 10 points per-game) over his last two seasons as a Knick and nearly 2 blocked shots, along with being an integral part of New York's eastern conference title in 1999.

The 2003-04 NBA Season - Team Record: 10-18[edit]

Layden's last season as the GM for the Knicks started off with the selections of Mike Sweetney from Georgetown with the 9th-pick in the draft, Maciej Lampe of Poland with the 30th-pick, and Slavko Vrane? of Serbia and Montenegro with the 39th-pick. Sweetney was later traded by Layden's successor Isiah Thomas as part of the deal with the Chicago Bulls that saw the Knicks acquire center Eddy Curry. Lampe never played in a game for New York as he was later traded to the Phoenix Suns, also by Thomas as part of the deal that saw Stephon Marbury come to the Knicks. Vrane? also never saw NBA action with New York, he was waived by the team after being tendered a 1-year minimum contract; currently his career spans one game with the Portland Trail Blazers.

On July 23, 2003 Layden traded guard Latrell Sprewell with two years remaining on his contract to the Minnesota Timberwolves as part of a four-team trade that also included interactions with the 76ers and Hawks. In return, the Knicks acquired veteran forward Keith Van Horn. Van Horn, an integral part of the New Jersey Nets 2002 eastern conference title, played in only 47 games for New York in just one season, averaging 16.4 points and 7.3 rebounds-per-game.[15]

The last notable transaction that Layden made as general manager came on October 9, when he signed Dikembe Mutombo to a 2-year contract.

Scott Layden was fired on December 22, 2003 by New York Knicks owner James Dolan.

And after all that, the Spurs hired him.

But as an assistant GM, not GM. In other words, not as a decision-maker. He'll be a major decision maker here. Again, just look at the multiple horrific decisions he made when finally given the top decision-making job in a NBA franchise.

Did you analyze all the moves he made when he was running the Jazz?