Q12543 wrote:I'm still scratching my head as to how Thibs and Layden (mostly Thibs) could rank Lucas ahead of Tyus as a player. Yes, Lucas is a "veteran" - a veteran that has played 237 games in the NBA. Just as a comparison, the twice-injured 25-year old Ricky Rubio has played 278 games. Lucas is no Andre Miller.
He's also undersized and brings no discernible stand-out skill to the table. I don't get what value he adds once the real games begin.
Lets be honest here nobody is trading Tyus because we have Lucas. He can be cut at anytime so the Wolves could pick up some other player of needed. This whole idea of trading Tyus because Lucas is likely to make the team is a joke.
Also the idea that we should trade Tyus for just a 2nd rounder because he may project to be just a 3rd PG is a poor justification also. You want depth on the roster and Tyus may have a long term or at the very least a few more seasons of his rookie deal here. What if Dunn becomes the starter 13 months from now and the team is able to move Rubio for a nice return and Tyus becomes a fantastic complimentary backup PG?
Also this stuff about Thibs only liking defensive players is bogus too. He LOVES Rose and and had those scoring PGs and none of them were all that great defensively. Heck is Lucas good defensively? I don't think so.
Well, you can write all that as your opinion - and that's fine. But I think some might look at what we've seen so far this pre-season and conclude Tyus is buried deep behind Rubio/Dunn without much of a role on this team. Granted - it's only a handful of meaningless pre-season games. But I really don't expect much to change considering Rubio is clearly the starter and Dunn is a high lotto pick. Those guys are are your Point Guards this year barring injury.
The times have changed. They got a winning coach and they are gearing up to win games. I don't see this team carrying guys on the roster without a role. Pek still eats up a roster spot I believe. So you have 10 guys who will play and four other guys who might rotate in based on match ups/injuries. Jordan Hill will be one of those guys. Payne might be another. Assume a 3rd PG and I would guess they need another Shooter. There's just not a lot of room for holding development guys. And that's a good thing because we have some established players now.
Q12543 wrote:I'm still scratching my head as to how Thibs and Layden (mostly Thibs) could rank Lucas ahead of Tyus as a player. Yes, Lucas is a "veteran" - a veteran that has played 237 games in the NBA. Just as a comparison, the twice-injured 25-year old Ricky Rubio has played 278 games. Lucas is no Andre Miller.
He's also undersized and brings no discernible stand-out skill to the table. I don't get what value he adds once the real games begin.
Lets be honest here nobody is trading Tyus because we have Lucas. He can be cut at anytime so the Wolves could pick up some other player of needed. This whole idea of trading Tyus because Lucas is likely to make the team is a joke.
Also the idea that we should trade Tyus for just a 2nd rounder because he may project to be just a 3rd PG is a poor justification also. You want depth on the roster and Tyus may have a long term or at the very least a few more seasons of his rookie deal here. What if Dunn becomes the starter 13 months from now and the team is able to move Rubio for a nice return and Tyus becomes a fantastic complimentary backup PG?
Also this stuff about Thibs only liking defensive players is bogus too. He LOVES Rose and and had those scoring PGs and none of them were all that great defensively. Heck is Lucas good defensively? I don't think so.
Well, you can write all that as your opinion - and that's fine. But I think some might look at what we've seen so far this pre-season and conclude Tyus is buried deep behind Rubio/Dunn without much of a role on this team. Granted - it's only a handful of meaningless pre-season games. But I really don't expect much to change considering Rubio is clearly the starter and Dunn is a high lotto pick. Those guys are are your Point Guards this year barring injury.
The times have changed. They got a winning coach and they are gearing up to win games. I don't see this team carrying guys on the roster without a role. Pek still eats up a roster spot I believe. So you have 10 guys who will play and four other guys who might rotate in based on match ups/injuries. Jordan Hill will be one of those guys. Payne might be another. Assume a 3rd PG and I would guess they need another Shooter. There's just not a lot of room for holding development guys. And that's a good thing because we have some established players now.
So we don't want depth? We aren't going to develop young players anymore? Look at what the Spurs have done for years at the PG position. Pek's roster spot is basically inconsequential. They can apply for a roster exception if they want to. Would trading Tyus make sense of the right offer came around? Sure I wouldn't like it cause I am a Tyus homer but I also don't know what team is going to give up the assets to make it worth happening.
Let's be honest this is the Timberwolves. This franchise has had bad luck keeping PGs healthy. It needs to stay loaded up on young talent at that position. Kinda joking kinda not.
I think maybe Doogie is reaching for a story here. Lucas has no long term value for the franchise and I question whether he is any value as insurance for us. There are or will be plenty of old vet point guards floating around: Mario Chalmers is a free agent. Norris Cole, Steve Blake and Andre Miller are all free agents. Atlanta will probably cut a veteran point guard (they have Schroder, Jack, Bynum and Hinrich). Miami is rumored to be cutting Beno Udrih. I don't see Lucas as a cut above what we could sign off the free agency market.
monsterpile wrote:
So we don't want depth? We aren't going to develop young players anymore? Look at what the Spurs have done for years at the PG position. Pek's roster spot is basically inconsequential. They can apply for a roster exception if they want to. Would trading Tyus make sense of the right offer came around? Sure I wouldn't like it cause I am a Tyus homer but I also don't know what team is going to give up the assets to make it worth happening.
Let's be honest this is the Timberwolves. This franchise has had bad luck keeping PGs healthy. It needs to stay loaded up on young talent at that position. Kinda joking kinda not.
Yes. Of course we can have depth. But obviously depth has to be balanced over the available roster spots. If Rubio goes down, we have the the 5th overall pick in last year's draft as our starter. So I guess it comes down to how much value you put in the back up to the back up. And then you have to consider where Tyus is right now (not what you think he might be) vs. whatever PG we could pick up off the street if Rubio/Dunn goes down. Has Tyus established himself as a clear cut above what might be out there as of right now? IDK. I think Wolves fans go through this a lot....worrying about losing guys like Malcolm Lee, Lorenzo Brown or GR3. It's fun to root for the under dogs. But the emotional attachment out of it, does the player make your team better? I'm not sure losing Tyus would cost us any wins this year.
I think for me the issue is less about losing Tyus and more about keeping Lucas. The only difference between the two in my mind is that one is old and unproven and the other is young and unproven.
monsterpile wrote:
So we don't want depth? We aren't going to develop young players anymore? Look at what the Spurs have done for years at the PG position. Pek's roster spot is basically inconsequential. They can apply for a roster exception if they want to. Would trading Tyus make sense of the right offer came around? Sure I wouldn't like it cause I am a Tyus homer but I also don't know what team is going to give up the assets to make it worth happening.
Let's be honest this is the Timberwolves. This franchise has had bad luck keeping PGs healthy. It needs to stay loaded up on young talent at that position. Kinda joking kinda not.
Yes. Of course we can have depth. But obviously depth has to be balanced over the available roster spots. If Rubio goes down, we have the the 5th overall pick in last year's draft as our starter. So I guess it comes down to how much value you put in the back up to the back up. And then you have to consider where Tyus is right now (not what you think he might be) vs. whatever PG we could pick up off the street if Rubio/Dunn goes down. Has Tyus established himself as a clear cut above what might be out there as of right now? IDK. I think Wolves fans go through this a lot....worrying about losing guys like Malcolm Lee, Lorenzo Brown or GR3. It's fun to root for the under dogs. But the emotional attachment out of it, does the player make your team better? I'm not sure losing Tyus would cost us any wins this year.
And exactly how much value does he offer other teams?
The Wolves need wing depth (and shooters) more than backup PG depth. Can Jones help with that?
If we can get a higher draft pick then where we drafted him absolutely. He's not going to play unless there's an injury. Developing a long term development program for an eventual back up PG should not be a priority for this team. Back up PGs are available every year, even moreso 3rd pgs.
And exactly how much value does he offer other teams?
The Wolves need wing depth (and shooters) more than backup PG depth. Can Jones help with that?
Yep. I sort of think the same way when I look at the roster as is. I'm trying not to over react to Dunn's scoring right now. It's reasonable to keep expectations low for him in that regard. But Belly still has to establish himself. Adlrich isn't a scorer. Rush seems just average. Scoring with the 2nd unit can't all fall on Bazz's shoulders (although he wouldn't mind taking all the shots - lol).
Teams like the Spurs and Warriors always have development guys on their teams so why can't we? Guys like McAdoo and Looney and Anderson and Joseph who they kept on the team to develop and get bigger roles as the years go on. Tyus is in year 2, he's cheap and he's not terrible. That's exactly the guy you keep and let him continue to develop. You don't play all 15 guys so the last few spots are made for development guys who are cheap. That's why it's dumb to give up those guys for nothing or for cheap. If you are playing guys 13-15 your season is over anyway because of injuries. Good teams always make room for 1 or 2 development guys on the end of the bench.
