Camden wrote:Minnesota: PG Darren Collison (2015: $5,013,559; 2016: $5,229,454)
Sacramento: SG Kevin Martin (2015: $7,085,000; 2016: $7,377,500)
Do it.
I like this. Especially since Karl is now benching McLemore they may be looking for a 2.
Kevin Martin is worth more then a backup point guard I think.
But Martin is a backup player for many (most?) teams, isn't he?
20 point scorer who shoots a high percentage I think would start on a lot of teams. There aren't a lot of good shooting guards today comparative
KMart is not a good shooting guard, he's a good scorer, but there is far more to being a good 2 than just scoring.
your either underrating Martin, or overrating other shooting guards
You have to be at least average on both ends of the court before I will consider you a good player at your position. KMart is a great scorer, he also makes average scorers look great when on defense. I don't undervalue KMarts contributions on offense, I just question on average, how much more does he get than he gives?
lipoli390 wrote:Q - When LaVine was pulled for Miller was Martin left on the floor?
I believe he was, but the PG's job is to settle down the troops and get us into sets, which wasn't happening. That's not Martin's role. Plus, let's face it, veterans like Martin are always going to get a bit more rope. At the end of the day, Mitchell eventually brought Prince in for Martin to help get stops, so LaVine AND Martin weren't out there during crunch time.
PorkChop wrote:So knowing he won't be on the team what is there to gain by keeping him. Unless you think he's a vital cog to a deep playoff run this year we'really just wasting the last of his value.
Neither is Prince or KG, yet they are still playing and won't be traded
Isn't that besides the point? You would agree that he still holds value.
I guess I look at what the Patriots always do. They trade away players that still have value but will be on their way out of the league in a few years all the time. Always looking to the future ensures keeping a competitive team in the present and down the road .
I get wanting to see this team win a few extra games, but instant gratification could come at the detriment of team depth down the road .
I don't think your going to get a player that would help you more then Martin. Also I doubt you'd get anything more then a late 1st for him. Remember Flip isn't making those picks anymore, so your looking at selling it to to fill Taylor's pockets. Better just to keep Martin and let him walk. You still get cap space
I don't think it's a guarantee our next GM is going to be a seller like Flip was with picks because Glenn is telling him to. If you can get a late first or a prospect for Martin at the deadline you do it. You never know if that late first could turn into the next Gobert and at this winning pace, we won't have any first round picks in this draft which is a bad spot to be this early in the rebuild. You never want to have a 1st round pick less year in the summer before year three of a rebuild.
PorkChop wrote:So knowing he won't be on the team what is there to gain by keeping him. Unless you think he's a vital cog to a deep playoff run this year we'really just wasting the last of his value.
Neither is Prince or KG, yet they are still playing and won't be traded
Isn't that besides the point? You would agree that he still holds value.
I guess I look at what the Patriots always do. They trade away players that still have value but will be on their way out of the league in a few years all the time. Always looking to the future ensures keeping a competitive team in the present and down the road .
I get wanting to see this team win a few extra games, but instant gratification could come at the detriment of team depth down the road .
I don't think your going to get a player that would help you more then Martin. Also I doubt you'd get anything more then a late 1st for him. Remember Flip isn't making those picks anymore, so your looking at selling it to to fill Taylor's pockets. Better just to keep Martin and let him walk. You still get cap space
I don't think it's a guarantee our next GM is going to be a seller like Flip was with picks because Glenn is telling him to. If you can get a late first or a prospect for Martin at the deadline you do it. You never know if that late first could turn into the next Gobert and at this winning pace, we won't have any first round picks in this draft which is a bad spot to be this early in the rebuild. You never want to have a 1st round pick less year in the summer before year three of a rebuild.
Glen was selling picks long before Flip was running the show. I believe Khan once sold 47 draft picks during one draft
I agree completely with both your posts. And I think Robson's analysis hits the mark. At age 32, Martin is what he is - a very good/efficient scorer and decent 3-point shooter. That's it. He's a horrible defender, a poor rebounder, a below average ballhandler for his position and a bad passer. Further, the way Sam is using him, coupled with the decision to start Prince, is stifling the development of LaVine and Shabazz.
Great win tonight, but there is no legitimate justification for allocating 24 minutes each to Prince and Martin while playing LaVine only 16. Compare their numbers from tonight's game. Sam's allocation of minutes among these three was mystifying. I have to believe that Sam has some master plan he can't reveal that would that explain this mystery.
However, the good news is that Sam is getting these guys to play defense and the team as a whole seems to be channeling Sam's toughness. And importantly, the team is winning games under difficult circumstances. I don't care who you play, it's tough to win on the road in the NBA and the Wolves are 4-0 on the road thus far. That's incredible.
Not mystifying at all. LaVine had a really, really nice run in the first half, but then all hell broke loose in the second half and the same guys from the bench that were hitting on all cylinders in the first half couldn't stem the tide. At that point, LaVine was pulled for Miller for a short stint and then Rubio closed the game out.
By the way, if anyone is looking for Tayshaun Prince, he's still attached to Kyle Korver's jersey.
Ha, good line Q! He frustrated the crap out of Korver last night and totally took him out of his game. Prince really wanted to take the 3-pointer out of Korver's repertoire last night, and he did. The only time I remember Korver scoring on Tay is when Tay closed too quickly on him, and Kyle got around him to make a tough runner.
I laughed when you said Prince is still attached to Korver's jersey, because he does get away with a lot of grabbing. I think he gets a lot of calls others don't get because he is a veteran and never complains to the referees about a call. Can you imagine a rookie getting away with having his hands on his man as much as Tay does? Combine the leeway he gets with his length and smarts, and I now understand why he is such an effective defender.
LST, The thing is, Tay has fallen off as a defender the last few years, so once again I have to tip my cap to Mitchell. It seems like Tay is rejuvenated and has really embraced his role on the team.
Sometimes just narrowing a guy's role to one or two things can help sharpen their focus and produce better results. It appears that so far, that's what's happening with Tay. We'll see if he can sustain it.
lipoli390 wrote:Q - When LaVine was pulled for Miller was Martin left on the floor?
I believe he was, but the PG's job is to settle down the troops and get us into sets, which wasn't happening. That's not Martin's role. Plus, let's face it, veterans like Martin are always going to get a bit more rope. At the end of the day, Mitchell eventually brought Prince in for Martin to help get stops, so LaVine AND Martin weren't out there during crunch time.
Martin is a goo, efficient score - in large part because of his knack for getting to the line.
I think we all agree on LaVine's shortcomings at PG. But given how well LaVine was shooting, along with his youth and upside on our rebuilding team, he should have had minutes at SG and shouldn't have been limited to 16 minutes compared to Martin's 24. I'll add that LaVine has a far more complete offensive game than Martin - rebounding and passing. And as bad as LaVine can look defensively, he is still significantly better than Martin on that side of the ball with a lot of upside as a defender.
I guess my bottom line us this: This team needs to give LaVine significant minutes at the SG position and Martin's not good enough to justify denying Zach those minutes. Hence, my agreement with Robson.
lipoli390 wrote:Q - When LaVine was pulled for Miller was Martin left on the floor?
I believe he was, but the PG's job is to settle down the troops and get us into sets, which wasn't happening. That's not Martin's role. Plus, let's face it, veterans like Martin are always going to get a bit more rope. At the end of the day, Mitchell eventually brought Prince in for Martin to help get stops, so LaVine AND Martin weren't out there during crunch time.
Martin is a goo, efficient score - in large part because of his knack for getting to the line.
I think we all agree on LaVine's shortcomings at PG. But given how well LaVine was shooting, along with his youth and upside on our rebuilding team, he should have had minutes at SG and shouldn't have been limited to 16 minutes compared to Martin's 24. I'll add that LaVine has a far more complete offensive game than Martin - rebounding and passing. And as bad as LaVine can look defensively, he is still significantly better than Martin on that side of the ball with a lot of upside as a defender.
I guess my bottom line us this: This team needs to give LaVine significant minutes at the SG position and Martin's not good enough to justify denying Zach those minutes. Hence, my agreement with Robson.
lipoli390 wrote:Q - When LaVine was pulled for Miller was Martin left on the floor?
I believe he was, but the PG's job is to settle down the troops and get us into sets, which wasn't happening. That's not Martin's role. Plus, let's face it, veterans like Martin are always going to get a bit more rope. At the end of the day, Mitchell eventually brought Prince in for Martin to help get stops, so LaVine AND Martin weren't out there during crunch time.
Martin is a goo, efficient score - in large part because of his knack for getting to the line.
I think we all agree on LaVine's shortcomings at PG. But given how well LaVine was shooting, along with his youth and upside on our rebuilding team, he should have had minutes at SG and shouldn't have been limited to 16 minutes compared to Martin's 24. I'll add that LaVine has a far more complete offensive game than Martin - rebounding and passing. And as bad as LaVine can look defensively, he is still significantly better than Martin on that side of the ball with a lot of upside as a defender.
I guess my bottom line us this: This team needs to give LaVine significant minutes at the SG position and Martin's not good enough to justify denying Zach those minutes. Hence, my agreement with Robson.
In no stats is that true
By "in no stats" I take it you mean no stat except assists and rebounds? LaVine's better on assists even with per minute equivalence.
