Wiggins v Greek Freak

[Monster]

Personally I think Cam has been more respectful this season. Props to him.

Personally I think most of Cam's takes of players are based on on a pretty large sample of watching players play. If he likes or dislikes a guy he may stay stubborn in that stance but it's a majority of the time because of that sample size and a large sample of stats. Any small sample size of a player (Stauskus) is like anyone here that likes a guy he is hoping he turns the corner.

What I don't get is people saying how Wiggins looked like a go to scorer the last couple nights and are wowed. Wiggins was doing this last year too. I think there was some legit worry about him those first few games of the year but he did have the back issue that could explain part of it. Wiggins has the issue of being able to get those longer jumpers anytime he wants. It's going to be a good thing at times because sometimes the team will need him to be able to nail that shot. Like Cam says he can't settle for that too much though. He needs to attack. Maybe the best part of this game was he did a couple things Q has wanted. He had 2 outback and had at least 1 transition bucket.

Wiggins will probably always be ripped for not being outwardly expressive and maybe deferring but I really think this dude has plenty of fire. It's been on display plenty the last couple games.

[mjs34]

Personally I think Cam has been more respectful this season. Props to him.

Personally I think most of Cam's takes of players are based on on a pretty large sample of watching players play. If he likes or dislikes a guy he may stay stubborn in that stance but it's a majority of the time because of that sample size and a large sample of stats. Any small sample size of a player (Stauskus) is like anyone here that likes a guy he is hoping he turns the corner.

What I don't get is people saying how Wiggins looked like a go to scorer the last couple nights and are wowed. Wiggins was doing this last year too. I think there was some legit worry about him those first few games of the year but he did have the back issue that could explain part of it. Wiggins has the issue of being able to get those longer jumpers anytime he wants. It's going to be a good thing at times because sometimes the team will need him to be able to nail that shot. Like Cam says he can't settle for that too much though. He needs to attack. Maybe the best part of this game was he did a couple things Q has wanted. He had 2 outback and had at least 1 transition bucket.

Wiggins will probably always be ripped for not being outwardly expressive and maybe deferring but I really think this dude has plenty of fire. It's been on display plenty the last couple games.

Cam gets ripped because he is shoving it in their faces every chance he gets.

As for Wiggins, I don't think I have witnessed anything close to what I saw tonight. Even the chicago game was different. He was just hitting his shots on Saturday, but tonight he was flying to hole regardless of who was in front of him. Last season I remember the Gobert dunk, but other than that I never saw the superstar mentality.

Sam actually talked about it a little on the post game, and was just gushing over what he saw tonight. He truly wanted to take over the game.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

SJM - Wiggins is 2 months younger than GA. GA came into the league as a younger player, so the 19 yr old rookie status is incorrect regardless of how they list it on BB ref or elsewhere.

Monster, just watch the games and you will see the difference. I am not saying Wiggins won't get there, but if I am deciding today I take GA. His skillset is just as good as Wiggins on the whole, but he looks to have taken the next step.

Long- Cool, we're comparing them right now. Giannis is averaging 21 a game this season.

Abe- I'm going with Giannis.

We talk about promise. And potential. The best way to judge that is in year-by-year progress. Giannis took a huge leap from Year 1 to Year 2. And (small sample size alert) he seems to have made another huge leap this season. That's all you can ask from these young, athletic, promising talents. Yes. Giannis has another year in the league. And THAT's why I'm choosing him.

He's proven he can improve from one season to the next.
Nothing against Wiggins... but he hasn't yet. It's the NBA. I want to keep my job. I'm going with the proverbial bird in the hand at this point.

Did I miss anyone? That's a lot of evidence of people accounting the 4 games from this year into their decision. Also the we is Cool and myself because we obviously starting this black hole tonight.

Your changing your focus Khans. You threw a fit because you stated that we were basing our decisions on the four games. Not "accounting the 4 games from this year into their decision". What fool wouldn't count the latest games into their process?

How do the bolded ones give any example of the 4 games at all??

You do realize the bolded part is not the full quote? The paragraphs below them are all part of the quote. Each quote is a full quote until the next name pops up on the left. I also haven't changed my focus. Saying Giannis is playing better than Wiggins right now as part of your reason for picking him is exactly what I'm talking about. They haven't played enough to make that call for this season as a means of picking one over the other. The comparison should be between rookie years, otherwise Giannis has an unfair advantage of a whole extra season of development under his belt both for stats and for preparing him for this year. If the 4 games didn't matter then don't bring them up in your argument for why you'd take Giannis.

[mjs34]

SJM - Wiggins is 2 months younger than GA. GA came into the league as a younger player, so the 19 yr old rookie status is incorrect regardless of how they list it on BB ref or elsewhere.

Monster, just watch the games and you will see the difference. I am not saying Wiggins won't get there, but if I am deciding today I take GA. His skillset is just as good as Wiggins on the whole, but he looks to have taken the next step.

Long- Cool, we're comparing them right now. Giannis is averaging 21 a game this season.

Abe- I'm going with Giannis.

We talk about promise. And potential. The best way to judge that is in year-by-year progress. Giannis took a huge leap from Year 1 to Year 2. And (small sample size alert) he seems to have made another huge leap this season. That's all you can ask from these young, athletic, promising talents. Yes. Giannis has another year in the league. And THAT's why I'm choosing him.

He's proven he can improve from one season to the next.
Nothing against Wiggins... but he hasn't yet. It's the NBA. I want to keep my job. I'm going with the proverbial bird in the hand at this point.

Did I miss anyone? That's a lot of evidence of people accounting the 4 games from this year into their decision. Also the we is Cool and myself because we obviously starting this black hole tonight.

Your changing your focus Khans. You threw a fit because you stated that we were basing our decisions on the four games. Not "accounting the 4 games from this year into their decision". What fool wouldn't count the latest games into their process?

How do the bolded ones give any example of the 4 games at all??

You do realize the bolded part is not the full quote? The paragraphs below them are all part of the quote. Each quote is a full quote until the next name pops up on the left. I also haven't changed my focus. Saying Giannis is playing better than Wiggins right now as part of your reason for picking him is exactly what I'm talking about. They haven't played enough to make that call for this season as a means of picking one over the other. The comparison should be between rookie years, otherwise Giannis has an unfair advantage of a whole extra season of development under his belt both for stats and for preparing him for this year. If the 4 games didn't matter then don't bring them up in your argument for why you'd take Giannis.

No, I didn't realize that. Maybe you should use quotes or italicize it, but my point still holds. I am pretty sure that Abe, like myself, was referring to the muscle GF added, and his aggressive nature, from last season to this year. I don't base my judgements on just stats for any player, but more what I see from their mannerisms, mechanics, mental state, etc.. GF has an attacking mentality whether he is trying to score or rebound, or whatever, and Wiggins has not shown that on any type of aggressiveness. Guys will improve their shooting, and maybe their handle a little, but you have to have a certain mindset to go along with your skillset, and I hadn't seen that from Wiggins until tonight.

As for rookie years, GF was a year younger. That extra year of maturity playing for a top college has value as well.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

SJM - Wiggins is 2 months younger than GA. GA came into the league as a younger player, so the 19 yr old rookie status is incorrect regardless of how they list it on BB ref or elsewhere.

Monster, just watch the games and you will see the difference. I am not saying Wiggins won't get there, but if I am deciding today I take GA. His skillset is just as good as Wiggins on the whole, but he looks to have taken the next step.

Long- Cool, we're comparing them right now. Giannis is averaging 21 a game this season.

Abe- I'm going with Giannis.

We talk about promise. And potential. The best way to judge that is in year-by-year progress. Giannis took a huge leap from Year 1 to Year 2. And (small sample size alert) he seems to have made another huge leap this season. That's all you can ask from these young, athletic, promising talents. Yes. Giannis has another year in the league. And THAT's why I'm choosing him.

He's proven he can improve from one season to the next.
Nothing against Wiggins... but he hasn't yet. It's the NBA. I want to keep my job. I'm going with the proverbial bird in the hand at this point.

Did I miss anyone? That's a lot of evidence of people accounting the 4 games from this year into their decision. Also the we is Cool and myself because we obviously starting this black hole tonight.

Your changing your focus Khans. You threw a fit because you stated that we were basing our decisions on the four games. Not "accounting the 4 games from this year into their decision". What fool wouldn't count the latest games into their process?

How do the bolded ones give any example of the 4 games at all??

You do realize the bolded part is not the full quote? The paragraphs below them are all part of the quote. Each quote is a full quote until the next name pops up on the left. I also haven't changed my focus. Saying Giannis is playing better than Wiggins right now as part of your reason for picking him is exactly what I'm talking about. They haven't played enough to make that call for this season as a means of picking one over the other. The comparison should be between rookie years, otherwise Giannis has an unfair advantage of a whole extra season of development under his belt both for stats and for preparing him for this year. If the 4 games didn't matter then don't bring them up in your argument for why you'd take Giannis.

No, I didn't realize that. Maybe you should use quotes or italicize it, but my point still holds. I am pretty sure that Abe, like myself, was referring to the muscle GF added, and his aggressive nature, from last season to this year. I don't base my judgements on just stats for any player, but more what I see from their mannerisms, mechanics, mental state, etc.. GF has an attacking mentality whether he is trying to score or rebound, or whatever, and Wiggins has not shown that on any type of aggressiveness. Guys will improve their shooting, and maybe their handle a little, but you have to have a certain mindset to go along with your skillset, and I hadn't seen that from Wiggins until tonight.

As for rookie years, GF was a year younger. That extra year of maturity playing for a top college has value as well.

Wiggins was 16th in the league in FT attempts per game last year. Giannis? 39th. Wiggins completely abandoned the 3pt shot last year and got to the line 8 times per game after the all-star break which would have been good for 4th in the entire league. He's getting to the line 7 times a game this year good for 10th in the entire league. Giannis? 35th. This aggressive mentality or lack thereof is a phantom fear/concern. The dude gets to the line way too much for the lack of aggression narrative to be valid. He's top 10 in the league in FT attempts per game as a secondary ball handling wing. That means he's attacking a lot relative to how much he is touching the ball.

[Yosimar]

Nope. Both extremely talented young players who have bright futures in the NBA.

While it may look easier to pick him right now because of the start he's had I just don't see the Freak maintaining this pace. There's just no way he keeps shooting the way he has from 2 and 3 point land.

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

Just give them LaVine, Bazz and Dieng for GA and be done with it. Let's dominate!!!

[Monster]

Fun stat. Through 5 games despite shooting like 32% from the field Wiggins still scored 1ppg more than GF per 36.

[AbeVigodaLive]

The point is this board needs to cool it's fucking jets when it comes to being disappointed or worried about guys so quickly. 4 games is less than 5% of a season. Yet every year shit like this thread pop up after a small sample size and then the larger sample size comes in at the break and the end of the year and the guy is usually better and people are no longer worried in the blink of an eye like the patience of a fucking squirrel. If you want to criticize a bad game fine. Bringing up a who would you rather have because of four mediocre to bad games is different. Just take a breath and let em play. A 4 game slump is nothing in the grander scheme of a regular season. So stop worrying that quickly.

What's funny is that Cam didn't even start this thread AND he voted for Wiggins!

Lip started this thread and it was purely hypothetical. Everyone here answered it honestly and I have absolutely no problem with folks that took either position (I picked GF, but it was very close for me).

The problem is then after a game like tonight, someone takes the low road and bumps it as a way to throw it in the face of people that voted the opposite way he did. Fun times!

This is a great forum. Really, it is.

But it can be so fucking petty. And it's the same culprits. Every time.

[AbeVigodaLive]

SJM - Wiggins is 2 months younger than GA. GA came into the league as a younger player, so the 19 yr old rookie status is incorrect regardless of how they list it on BB ref or elsewhere.

Monster, just watch the games and you will see the difference. I am not saying Wiggins won't get there, but if I am deciding today I take GA. His skillset is just as good as Wiggins on the whole, but he looks to have taken the next step.

Long- Cool, we're comparing them right now. Giannis is averaging 21 a game this season.

Abe- I'm going with Giannis.

We talk about promise. And potential. The best way to judge that is in year-by-year progress. Giannis took a huge leap from Year 1 to Year 2. And (small sample size alert) he seems to have made another huge leap this season. That's all you can ask from these young, athletic, promising talents. Yes. Giannis has another year in the league. And THAT's why I'm choosing him.

He's proven he can improve from one season to the next.
Nothing against Wiggins... but he hasn't yet. It's the NBA. I want to keep my job. I'm going with the proverbial bird in the hand at this point.

Did I miss anyone? That's a lot of evidence of people accounting the 4 games from this year into their decision. Also the we is Cool and myself because we obviously starting this black hole tonight.

WHAT?

Reread what I wrote. And reread it a 9th time if you have to. I'm not knocking Wiggins at all in my post. I'm giving GA credit for making a leap from year 1 to year 2 and then seemingly in year 3 WITH THE CAVEAT INCLUDED ABOUT SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!!!!!!!! I don't know if it's gonna last or not. I don't care. I'm simply going with the guy who we know has improved in year 2... that's all we can do after 4 games. Or 6 games now. It's not a knock on Wiggins!

That's it. News Flash: It's ok for a Wolves "fan" to like players from other teams. Even if they like them MORE than Wolves players. You using me as an example just proves that you are too under the bus on this one because you fucked up all interpretation of what I actually meant.

My post had virtually NOTHING to do with Wiggins' first 4 games yet you're making it out like that was it was all about. I don't know what else to do when things get this fucked up so quickly around here.

Maybe I'm a piss-poor writer and have to use EVEN MORE caveats in every fucking post to clarify every fucking take... Good lord.