monsterpile wrote:I don't like ranking players too much but if I just went with guys in my lifetime he would be in my top 10 for sure probably in the top 5. I didn't/don't like him and I didn't always like his game but he was a damn good player and played both ends of the court. There really wasn't much he couldn't do. He deserves to get a the farewell tour I am just glad he owned up to it now I give him some respect for that. Hopefully he takes a bit of a back seat and actually helps the young guys put instead of playing 30 minutes and jacking up shots.
He went 4 - 20 in the last Lakers loss. Don't see how Kobe Bryant is going to change after 20 years doing things his own way...
No matter what BS he spews to the media...
Yeah I am not holding my breath on that one. What's the over/under on Kobe's FG% this season?
monsterpile wrote:I don't like ranking players too much but if I just went with guys in my lifetime he would be in my top 10 for sure probably in the top 5. I didn't/don't like him and I didn't always like his game but he was a damn good player and played both ends of the court. There really wasn't much he couldn't do. He deserves to get a the farewell tour I am just glad he owned up to it now I give him some respect for that. Hopefully he takes a bit of a back seat and actually helps the young guys put instead of playing 30 minutes and jacking up shots.
He went 4 - 20 in the last Lakers loss. Don't see how Kobe Bryant is going to change after 20 years doing things his own way...
No matter what BS he spews to the media...
Yeah I am not holding my breath on that one. What's the over/under on Kobe's FG% this season?
I think he gets into Rubio's territory. Maybe around 38%?
That's if he doesn't get injured and the season ends super early. (He has a lot of ground to make up.)
Q12543 wrote:Kobe was great for a lot of years, but I'd put Manu and Wade right up there with him in terms of 2-guards when they were at their peak (all are under Jordan of course).
I just love how much you are giving credit to Manu. Even though I also like Manu a lot, I might still rank Kobe above Manu since when he was in prime he was playing much more minutes that makes his high PER and TS% numbers more impressive than what Manu had.
But maybe because Popovich has always kept Manu's minutes relatively low, he has been to stay so long pretty effective in court. If we look Manu's and Kobe's numbers this year:
Manu: PER 20.5 TS% 56.1
Kobe: PER 9.9 TS% 40.9
Manu at age 38 is still really useful bench player for San Antonio but Kobe at age of 37 is just worthless chucker that should not play any minutes except for tanking purposes.
Q12543 wrote:Kobe was great for a lot of years, but I'd put Manu and Wade right up there with him in terms of 2-guards when they were at their peak (all are under Jordan of course).
I just love how much you are giving credit to Manu. Even though I also like Manu a lot, I might still rank Kobe above Manu since when he was in prime he was playing much more minutes that makes his high PER and TS% numbers more impressive than what Manu had.
But maybe because Popovich has always kept Manu's minutes relatively low, he has been to stay so long pretty effective in court. If we look Manu's and Kobe's numbers this year:
Manu: PER 20.5 TS% 56.1
Kobe: PER 9.9 TS% 40.9
Manu at age 38 is still really useful bench player for San Antonio but Kobe at age of 37 is just worthless chucker that should not play any minutes except for tanking purposes.
Go look at what Manu did from '04-05 to '07-08 and you realize how damn elite he was. TS% of 60%, rebounding, passing, defense, 3-point shooting. He did it all. And as you say, he still does it all to a somewhat lesser degree to this day. It's incredible that Pop was able to keep his minutes down like that. On any other team with any other coach, he would have been the #1 option playing 36-40 minutes per night.
I have a hard time ranking either one ahead of the other. Longevity and the ability to keep helping your team counts for something, and Kobe has been an absolute drag these last couple of years. And when both were in their primes, Manu was right there with Kobe in terms of his production.
I honestly don't see how Manu is being compared THAT favorably with Kobe Bryant.
[Note: In terms of "production"... Manu isn't even close. At his statistical peak (2008), he was a 19.5 ppg scorer with 4 reb and 5 assists. Even at Per 36 minutes... he was 23 ppg / 6 / 5 that season. Kobe Bryant averaged 26 / 6 / 5 that season per 36 minutes (and it wasn't anything out of the norm for him).
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I honestly don't see how Manu is being compared THAT favorably with Kobe Bryant.
[Note: In terms of "production"... Manu isn't even close. At his statistical peak (2008), he was a 19.5 ppg scorer with 4 reb and 5 assists. Even at Per 36 minutes... he was 23 ppg / 6 / 5 that season. Kobe Bryant averaged 26 / 6 / 5 that season per 36 minutes (and it wasn't anything out of the norm for him).
Yeah I don't really get that flow either. There are smart basketball people that make a case for Kobe being 1B to Jordan's 1A. Manu was never the alpha dog for his own team.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I honestly don't see how Manu is being compared THAT favorably with Kobe Bryant.
[Note: In terms of "production"... Manu isn't even close. At his statistical peak (2008), he was a 19.5 ppg scorer with 4 reb and 5 assists. Even at Per 36 minutes... he was 23 ppg / 6 / 5 that season. Kobe Bryant averaged 26 / 6 / 5 that season per 36 minutes (and it wasn't anything out of the norm for him).
Yeah I don't really get that flow either. There are smart basketball people that make a case for Kobe being 1B to Jordan's 1A. Manu was never the alpha dog for his own team.
That might be taking things too far the other way. Yikes.
Unless that 1A / 1B comparison is like us using it to claim Rubio is 1a and Tyus Jones is 1c.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I honestly don't see how Manu is being compared THAT favorably with Kobe Bryant.
[Note: In terms of "production"... Manu isn't even close. At his statistical peak (2008), he was a 19.5 ppg scorer with 4 reb and 5 assists. Even at Per 36 minutes... he was 23 ppg / 6 / 5 that season. Kobe Bryant averaged 26 / 6 / 5 that season per 36 minutes (and it wasn't anything out of the norm for him).
Yeah I don't really get that flow either. There are smart basketball people that make a case for Kobe being 1B to Jordan's 1A. Manu was never the alpha dog for his own team.
That might be taking things too far the other way. Yikes.
Unless that 1A / 1B comparison is like us using it to claim Rubio is 1a and Tyus Jones is 1c.
All I'm saying is I've heard people I respect make the argument. Nobody ever mentions Manu in the same breath with Jordan.
I sorta get where Q is coming from with Manu. He was a very different player than Kobe and in a very different situation. The thing about Manu was he was the perfect SG. He could and did do everything. He could basically play PG he could attack to score or pass he could hit outside shots. He moved without the ball. He could defend he played with ridiculous passion. It feels like you could drop Manu on any team and he could fit right in. Kobe on the other hand couldn't get along with the most dominate player of the era in Shaq. That doesn't mean I think Manu was as good or better than Kobe but it is more about giving Manu his due while pointing out the darker side of Kobe in comparison. He could do everything but sometimes passing for him seemed to be done begrudgingly. He always seemed selfish but smart enough to give it up enough and play in a team setting enough but I always felt he had the gifts to be more in that area.
