I will be devastated if we fall to 4 in the lottery

[Phenom]

I will be devastated if we end up with WCS out of this draft. Even if we trade down. Only way it would make sense is if we got a really good young peace while trading down.

Geez, if this would devastate you, I can't imagine what the last decade has been like for you!

I'm not a huge WCS fan either. He definitely is intriguing from a defensive perspective, but if he projects as our eventual starting Center, you now have two guys in your starting lineup that can't create offense for themselves (Rubio and WCS). I also question his ability to rebound and defend stronger posts. He was actually kind of an anemic rebounder in college and I don't see that changing much at his age.

On the other hand, I can poke pretty big holes in almost every other prospect outside of Towns.

Russell - Questions about his defense, size, and athleticism. Can he defend 1s or 2s - could have problems with both.
Mudiay - Great, another PG that can't shoot. Just what we need!
Winslow - Not convinced his outside shot will hold up at the next level. He also plays the exact same position as two of our rising stars in Wiggins and Shabazz.
Okafor - Can he learn to defend? His rebounding is just OK-ish. Doesn't seem very fit. Would force a team to play an inside-out style of ball that has largely disappeared from today's NBA. If you don't play this way, you are wasting his #1 asset, so he sort of forces the coach's hand in the type of system that's implemented.

Frankly, Wildwolf's guy Hezonja might have the least amount of holes in his size/athleticism/statistical profile. With him, it's more about question marks with his attitude.

I'm starting to lean Hezonja if the Wolves fall in the lottery. Not a need but looks like BPA to me

[mrhockey89]

Although I'm not sure I'd take him in the top 4, I think people are lowballing the value of WCS a bit. The knocks on him are age and lack of offense.

But he's a guy who is so versatile and dominant in certain areas of the game defensively, that it WILL help a team in the NBA. The knock on him playing with Rubio, another non-scorer, is a non-issue to me, because Rubio will feed him bunnies all day just like he can for Pek, just like he used to for Derrick Williams, etc. Maybe non-issue is a bit strong, but not as big of a deal as it might be if Ricky wouldn't be able to help raise his offensive game.

I'm in the middle of watching the Clippers destroy the Rockets in Houston, not only because Griffin is going Yahtzi, but also because DeAndre Jordan (another center who has absolutely no offensive game outside of dunking) is matching up with Dwight Howard and giving him all he can handle.

People are talking as if WCS is a twig who can get pushed around easily like Dieng on the defensive end, but he's build a bit tougher than that. Additionally, he's pro ready and high basketball IQ on the defensive end.

Anyone who read this post probably thinks I'd be for trading down for him, but that's not my suggestion at all. My suggestion is that if there's any way we could obtain an extra top 7 pick to nab him (trade some combo of a 2nd, Martin, Bjelica, future protected 1st, Bennett, etc). To come out of this draft with him and any other top player not named Okafor would be a great future lineup.

In fact...I'd even consider trading LaVine for him if we were able to land Winslow/Russell/Towns with our own top pick. LaVine is high upside and exciting, but still less polished than some of the guys in this draft. I'm sure I'll get ripped for that take, but it is what it is!

[MikkeMan]

The key with a guy like Porzi is a) can he put on more weight?, and b) does his rebounding and paint defense improve as a result?

Those are unanswerable questions, but the fact he doesn't even turn 20 until this summer suggests that he can continue to fill out if his frame can add more weight.

It's hard to fathom us drafting him though given our surplus of PFs, including Bjelica, who at that point would almost have to be traded since there is little chance Flip can unload Payne or AB.

I think paint defense is already one of the strengths for Porzingis. He is averaging one block per game in ACB despite playing just 21.7 minutes per game. Current NBA players like Joel Freeland and Nikola Mirotic failed to accomplish that despite being clearly older and getting more minutes per game. Porzis current per 40 minutes block stats are in line with Marc Gasol ACB stats.

I have understood that Porzingis main comparison used to be Kirilenko because of his strong defense and good athleticism. Only later after Porzi learnt to shoot outside, he has started to draw comparisons to Dirk. I would not also be too worried about his rebounding. His per 40 minutes rebounding numbers have improved every season and this year they were already quite comparable with Nikola Mirotic ACB stats and Mirotic have done OK job in NBA as well.

I can understand why Flip wouldn't draft Porzi if we get 4th pick and Towns and Okafor are already gone given the reasons you listed but personally I think Porzingis might have highest ceiling of all players in this years draft. Seven foot Andrei Kirilenko with nice outside shot without any injury concerns sounds a very intriguing prospect.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I will be devastated if we end up with WCS out of this draft. Even if we trade down. Only way it would make sense is if we got a really good young peace while trading down.

Geez, if this would devastate you, I can't imagine what the last decade has been like for you!

I'm not a huge WCS fan either. He definitely is intriguing from a defensive perspective, but if he projects as our eventual starting Center, you now have two guys in your starting lineup that can't create offense for themselves (Rubio and WCS). I also question his ability to rebound and defend stronger posts. He was actually kind of an anemic rebounder in college and I don't see that changing much at his age.

On the other hand, I can poke pretty big holes in almost every other prospect outside of Towns.

Russell - Questions about his defense, size, and athleticism. Can he defend 1s or 2s - could have problems with both.
Mudiay - Great, another PG that can't shoot. Just what we need!
Winslow - Not convinced his outside shot will hold up at the next level. He also plays the exact same position as two of our rising stars in Wiggins and Shabazz.
Okafor - Can he learn to defend? His rebounding is just OK-ish. Doesn't seem very fit. Would force a team to play an inside-out style of ball that has largely disappeared from today's NBA. If you don't play this way, you are wasting his #1 asset, so he sort of forces the coach's hand in the type of system that's implemented.

Frankly, Wildwolf's guy Hezonja might have the least amount of holes in his size/athleticism/statistical profile. With him, it's more about question marks with his attitude.

I'm starting to lean Hezonja if the Wolves fall in the lottery. Not a need but looks like BPA to me

Based on everything I've read about Hezonja, he would clearly be BPA at 4.


If by "BPA", we mean Biggest Possible A-hole"!

[MikkeMan]

Based on everything I've read about Hezonja, he would clearly be BPA at 4.

If by "BPA", we mean Biggest Possible A-hole"!

If Hezonja is Biggest Possible A-hole at 4, whom is then the bigger A-hole that would be likely drafted before him? :P

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Based on everything I've read about Hezonja, he would clearly be BPA at 4.

If by "BPA", we mean Biggest Possible A-hole"!

If Hezonja is Biggest Possible A-hole at 4, whom is then the bigger A-hole that would be likely drafted before him? :P

Ha, Hezonja is BPA at any draft slot!

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The key with a guy like Porzi is a) can he put on more weight?, and b) does his rebounding and paint defense improve as a result?

Those are unanswerable questions, but the fact he doesn't even turn 20 until this summer suggests that he can continue to fill out if his frame can add more weight.

It's hard to fathom us drafting him though given our surplus of PFs, including Bjelica, who at that point would almost have to be traded since there is little chance Flip can unload Payne or AB.

I think paint defense is already one of the strengths for Porzingis. He is averaging one block per game in ACB despite playing just 21.7 minutes per game. Current NBA players like Joel Freeland and Nikola Mirotic failed to accomplish that despite being clearly older and getting more minutes per game. Porzis current per 40 minutes block stats are in line with Marc Gasol ACB stats.

I have understood that Porzingis main comparison used to be Kirilenko because of his strong defense and good athleticism. Only later after Porzi learnt to shoot outside, he has started to draw comparisons to Dirk. I would not also be too worried about his rebounding. His per 40 minutes rebounding numbers have improved every season and this year they were already quite comparable with Nikola Mirotic ACB stats and Mirotic have done OK job in NBA as well.

I can understand why Flip wouldn't draft Porzi if we get 4th pick and Towns and Okafor are already gone given the reasons you listed but personally I think Porzingis might have highest ceiling of all players in this years draft. Seven foot Andrei Kirilenko with nice outside shot without any injury concerns sounds a very intriguing prospect.

His length and block/steal numbers are promising, but so were Gorgui Dieng's at Louisville. It doesn't matter if you block 2 shots a game if you're otherwise getting mandhandled for offensive putbacks and easy post-up looks. I haven't watched him at all, but the scouting report DX did on him suggests that he's a bit soft and slow to react defensively. Not good.

On the other hand, he's young enough that he could fill out and toughen up, becoming a real terror on defense. None of us really know.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Although I'm not sure I'd take him in the top 4, I think people are lowballing the value of WCS a bit. The knocks on him are age and lack of offense.

But he's a guy who is so versatile and dominant in certain areas of the game defensively, that it WILL help a team in the NBA. The knock on him playing with Rubio, another non-scorer, is a non-issue to me, because Rubio will feed him bunnies all day just like he can for Pek, just like he used to for Derrick Williams, etc. Maybe non-issue is a bit strong, but not as big of a deal as it might be if Ricky wouldn't be able to help raise his offensive game.

I'm in the middle of watching the Clippers destroy the Rockets in Houston, not only because Griffin is going Yahtzi, but also because DeAndre Jordan (another center who has absolutely no offensive game outside of dunking) is matching up with Dwight Howard and giving him all he can handle.

People are talking as if WCS is a twig who can get pushed around easily like Dieng on the defensive end, but he's build a bit tougher than that. Additionally, he's pro ready and high basketball IQ on the defensive end.

Anyone who read this post probably thinks I'd be for trading down for him, but that's not my suggestion at all. My suggestion is that if there's any way we could obtain an extra top 7 pick to nab him (trade some combo of a 2nd, Martin, Bjelica, future protected 1st, Bennett, etc). To come out of this draft with him and any other top player not named Okafor would be a great future lineup.

In fact...I'd even consider trading LaVine for him if we were able to land Winslow/Russell/Towns with our own top pick. LaVine is high upside and exciting, but still less polished than some of the guys in this draft. I'm sure I'll get ripped for that take, but it is what it is!

I agree that WCS is more athletic and nimble than Gorgui, who is sometimes awkward in his movements and reaction time. But I don't necessarily think he's tougher or stronger. WCS has been a consistently mediocre rebounder his entire career at Kentucky, especially defensive rebounding. I put a lot of stock in that because defensive rebounding is a big part of playing defense.

I wouldn't be heart-broken if we ended up with WCS, but he's got some pretty big holes.

[MikkeMan]

His length and block/steal numbers are promising, but so were Gorgui Dieng's at Louisville. It doesn't matter if you block 2 shots a game if you're otherwise getting mandhandled for offensive putbacks and easy post-up looks. I haven't watched him at all, but the scouting report DX did on him suggests that he's a bit soft and slow to react defensively. Not good.

On the other hand, he's young enough that he could fill out and toughen up, becoming a real terror on defense. None of us really know.

Some quotes from DraftExpress:

Porzingis is one of the most unique players in this draft class, showing an impressive combination of height, length, fluidity and skills. He's very mobile for his size, capable of playing above the rim with ease and able to cover ground quickly moving from the perimeter to the paint.

Porzingis also shows interesting potential defensively, evidenced by his 1.5 steals and 2 block averages per-40 minutes. His combination of size, length and mobility gives him impressive versatility on the pick and roll, allowing him to hedge out past the 3-point line and still recover in time to make a play in the paint for example. He's also agile enough to switch and stay in front of smaller players if called upon, giving his team the type of positional flexibility every coaching staff in the NBA covets greatly these days.

Besides the potential he shows as an athletic "stretch four," Porzinigis also possesses another coveted attribute in his shot-blocking ability. The 6.6 blocks he averaged per-40 minutes this past summer at the U18 European Championship is the highest rate of any player in our database since 2012 by a wide margin. His 2.9 blocks per-40 is also the third best rate in the past fifteen seasons in Spain among players under the age of 20 (better than what current NBA per-minute shot-blocking leader Serge Ibaka averaged at the same age for example).

Porzingis' length, mobility and instincts give him great potential in general on this end of the floor. Despite his size, he has no problem covering most power forwards on the perimeter, as he does an excellent job of staying in front thanks to his terrific lateral quickness, and uses his length to contest shots effectively. He is also very adept at hedging screens well beyond the 3-point line, still being able to recover quickly enough to make a play at the rim, as he understands the concept of verticality quite well. Additionally, he uses his quickness to get in the passing lanes prolifically, averaging 1.7 steals per-40 minutes.

There is also written that he lacks strength and toughness but I think you can say same about most of other 19 year old 7-footers as well.

[TheFuture]

Flip isn't that stupid. He will take BPA rather than reach for WCS in the top 4. He may decide that a center is a must. If so, he would surely trade down for him. At least, I think we can give him that much credit.

Yeah, I can't imagine a 66-loss team is reaching that far to fill such a specific need...

The number says 66 loss, but we definitely are a better team than that. I personally wouldn't mind trading down for WCS. We have a few great prospects, 2-4 good players. We need to take players who fit/help Wiggins/lavine in my opinion. I don't want to draft a Kevin love when we have big all, or a derrick Williams when we have Kevin love, etc.

For example, Okafor play does not fit this teams style and would be either a waste of his talent, or would hinder Wiggins/ lavines.

We need outside scoring, post/rim defense, pg scoring. In that order.

Towns, Russell, hezonja, porzingis, WCS, mudiay, maybe Winslow have to be the only targets.