Carlos, In B-ball reference on our team page, go to the "Other" tab and select the On/Off menu item. Here you will see team and opponent numbers when all of our players are on or off the court. That's the proper Drating. The Drating used on the main page (and the comparison tool) is overall team defensive rating (regardless if that player is on or off the court) with some box score stats used to adjust it up or down. It's not a good indicator of that player's defensive effectiveness at all.
In terms of rim protection, NBA.com has a player tracking set of stats that looks at opponent FG% at the rim. Here are a few select players from this year:
Gorgui Dieng - 55.8%
Jeff Adrien - 48.4%
Rudy Gobert - 40%
Timofey Mozgov - 47.5%
Marc Gasol - 49.5%
Kosta Koufas - 46.8%
Kelly Olynyk - 53.3%
Tyson Chandler - 50.8%
Enes Kanter - I forget where he was at - but I think he might be the only Center worse than Gorgui.
But nevermind the numbers. Weren't you watching the games? Everytime Gorgui was posted up and isolated, he'd be backed down and his opponent would get a clean shot off with minimal jostling or resistance. He opens up his body when guards are driving to the hoop baiting them to go up for the layup. Well, unless it's Trey Burke or some other unsuspecting Lilliputian, he doesn't get the block and instead offered up a clear driving lane. Every once in a while he makes a highlight-reel block against the glass, but far more often he's a half-step behind. And the worst thing he does is leave his feet. All. The. Time. His base is weak enough as it is, but this constantly takes him out of plays.
Are these things fixable? Perhaps. He needs a competent big man defensive coach for one thing to get him out of these bad habits. I don't know what he can do as far as strengthening his base and balance. I would think by now he would have tried a bunch of stuff given his age and experience.
Who Do You Want Back Next Year?
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Carlos Danger
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Re: Who Do You Want Back Next Year?
Q - I went to BBReference and saw the on/off. But I don't have a lot of confidence in using that myself. Using that metric, Glen Robinson was one of our best players with a +14. In fact, based on what I see, your buddy Adrien was also behind the legendary Troy Daniels at +5.2. I think there are far better overall stats to use to evaluate these guys like: PER, Win Shares and VORP. While no stat is perfect, those certainly produce fewer exceptions than the +/- you are quoting.
And to answer your question, - yes, I've watched most of the games. And IMO Dieng did fine. His Advanced stats support that. He's a second year guy who was supposed to be a backup this year. Instead, he was forced into a much bigger role due to injuries. He got exposed in some areas because of that. But when evaluating a player, I think it's important to include their full body of work - vs. fixating on their weaknesses. And I think that's where the advanced stats i.e. PER, Win Shares and VORP help to keep things in perspective.
And to answer your question, - yes, I've watched most of the games. And IMO Dieng did fine. His Advanced stats support that. He's a second year guy who was supposed to be a backup this year. Instead, he was forced into a much bigger role due to injuries. He got exposed in some areas because of that. But when evaluating a player, I think it's important to include their full body of work - vs. fixating on their weaknesses. And I think that's where the advanced stats i.e. PER, Win Shares and VORP help to keep things in perspective.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Who Do You Want Back Next Year?
Carlos, I'm as much a stats guy as you are. I know those stats and refer to them all the time. But a Center whose biggest weakness is protecting the paint....well, that's a pretty big deal and to me deserves a lot more weight than TS% or assists.
Dieng has some unique skills. He can pass. He can knock down some crafty bankers and mid-range shots. He's a good free-thrower. He's a solid rebounder. But he doesn't seal guys out of the paint and gets easily knocked out of position. The result is an assembly line into the paint for easy putbacks and layups. Nabbing 10 boards and a couple of assists per night doesn't mean much when the other team is scoring every time down the floor.
I must say though, having watched Payne and Hamilton flail about for a couple of weeks, I've gained an appreciation for just how much worse it can get!
Like I said, he should play mostly PF or backup C against other backup C's. I think his defensive numbers would improve. But as a starting Center, he's a huge liability defensively.
Dieng has some unique skills. He can pass. He can knock down some crafty bankers and mid-range shots. He's a good free-thrower. He's a solid rebounder. But he doesn't seal guys out of the paint and gets easily knocked out of position. The result is an assembly line into the paint for easy putbacks and layups. Nabbing 10 boards and a couple of assists per night doesn't mean much when the other team is scoring every time down the floor.
I must say though, having watched Payne and Hamilton flail about for a couple of weeks, I've gained an appreciation for just how much worse it can get!
Like I said, he should play mostly PF or backup C against other backup C's. I think his defensive numbers would improve. But as a starting Center, he's a huge liability defensively.
Re: Who Do You Want Back Next Year?
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Bud hasn't been bad lately, but like I said in another thread, someone has to score - we only have 8 guys. I'm sure his real value is somewhere in between what we've seen the last month, and what we saw earlier in the season. But I'm happy for him that he's gotten his act together.
Yes, someone has to score but Bud has done it lately with elite efficiency. His post all star break TS% was .602!! That is insane number with already reasonable sample size. His post all star break stats were 27.4min 11.3pts 3.9rbs and 1.3 asts. It really seems that he is finally healthy and playing better than ever.
I would probably still try to shop Bud during summer. I would probably try to pack his contract with Bennett and try to get some upgrade for PF position but if nothing useful is offered, I would be ready to keep him.
Re: Who Do You Want Back Next Year?
Q12543 wrote:
But nevermind the numbers. Weren't you watching the games? Everytime Gorgui was posted up and isolated, he'd be backed down and his opponent would get a clean shot off with minimal jostling or resistance. He opens up his body when guards are driving to the hoop baiting them to go up for the layup. Well, unless it's Trey Burke or some other unsuspecting Lilliputian, he doesn't get the block and instead offered up a clear driving lane. Every once in a while he makes a highlight-reel block against the glass, but far more often he's a half-step behind. And the worst thing he does is leave his feet. All. The. Time. His base is weak enough as it is, but this constantly takes him out of plays.
NBA.com has also nice stats about offensive and defensive efficiency by play type. Based on that Wolves bigs key defensive stats against post ups:
Pekovic 0.65 pts per possession 42.9% opponent FG%
Adrien 0.7 ppp, 35.3 FG%
Young 0.75 ppp, 45.1 FG%
Hummel 0.89 ppp, 41.9 FG%
Payne 0.9 ppp, 48.3 FG%
Bennett 0.92 ppp, 48.8 FG%
Hamilton 0.93 ppp, 52.4 FG%
Dieng 0.96 ppp, 54.3 FG%
Sample size for others than Young or Dieng is quite small but you will anyway get some idea why Wolves defense looked so much better with Pek than with Dieng.
Re: Who Do You Want Back Next Year?
Q is harder on Dieng and praises Adrian for the simple reason of what their expected role is. Adrian is an end of the bench cheap guy that can come in play his butt off rebound defend and not hurt you on offense. Dieng is a guy you hope for more but at least you expect him to be a legit rotation guy. Totally different expectations of the players. Jim peterson has been saying how much he misses Dieng the last couple of guys I have watched. Well that's obvious when you look at the junk that is the Wolves bigs but Dieng really is sort of the Corey Brewer of PF/C which is a bad thing but is a good thing because he can help you when he is out there. He can help you on the boards get his hands on balls make some blocks and actually score and help you on offense. Let's hope we bring in a coach as an assistant or otherwise to help the team defense and Dieng.