Flip should thank the gods that he got Wiggins...

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

LOL, so Wolves are finally sitting pretty with two 1st overall pick plus a bunch of other young talents but you guys come here to b/tch about freaking Payne?! Haha LOSERS!!!

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

LOL, so Wolves are finally sitting pretty with two 1st overall pick plus a bunch of other young talents but you guys come here to b/tch about freaking Payne?! Haha LOSERS!!!

Yeah, we are probably spending too much time talking about this trade. Payne should be our 3rd string PF this year, and if the Wolves woeful playoff record continues, the asset we give up for him would be a second rounder in 2021...not a very consequential trade for either team. But I take a more optimistic viewpoint, and think that the Adreian Payne I watched in Vegas this summer will be one of several contributors that will help the Wolves get to the playoffs this year. And if so, it would be difficult to get to upset about not having a pick somewhere in the 20s next year...we'll be too busy analyzing our first round opponent!

[TAFKASP]

LOL, so Wolves are finally sitting pretty with two 1st overall pick plus a bunch of other young talents but you guys come here to b/tch about freaking Payne?! Haha LOSERS!!!

Yeah, we are probably spending too much time talking about this trade. Payne should be our 3rd string PF this year, and if the Wolves woeful playoff record continues, the asset we give up for him would be a second rounder in 2021...not a very consequential trade for either team. But I take a more optimistic viewpoint, and think that the Adreian Payne I watched in Vegas this summer will be one of several contributors that will help the Wolves get to the playoffs this year. And if so, it would be difficult to get to upset about not having a pick somewhere in the 20s next year...we'll be too busy analyzing our first round opponent!

Yeah, lost in these conversations is the fact that 99% of mid to late first round picks are at beat rotation players. Payne only needs to be solid contributor to justify the pick.

[bleedspeed]

Yeah, lost in these conversations is the fact that 99% of mid to late first round picks are at beat rotation players. Payne only needs to be solid contributor to justify the pick.

It is not really what we lost with the pick to me it is more about what we could have use the pick to trade for. If things go right we could have used that pick to trade to a team rebuilding for a player to help fill out the roster. (then there is the fact we overpaid since he was not worth a first of any kind)

[60WinTim]

LST -- it's not even a first round pick next year, but in 2017. So we have TWO years for Payne to show us he was worthy of a late first round pick...

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

LST -- it's not even a first round pick next year, but in 2017. So we have TWO years for Payne to show us he was worthy of a late first round pick...

Thx Tim...seems to make the Payne price tag even less significant.

The Wolves future draft picks situation is confusing to me, because we also still have the Wes Johnson deal hanging over our heads. Tell me if this is correct:

1) We still owe our 2016 pick to Boston, I believe, but I think it is top 12 protected. So, if the Wolves don't make the playoffs next year (which is the prevailing opinion here), we most likely keep our 2016 first rounder. However, we then have to give Boston our second round picks in 2017 and 2018.

2) We owe Atlanta a first round pick beginning in 2017, but it is lottery protected through 2020. If we haven't conveyed it by 2021, it reverts to a second round pick.

Is that an accurate description of our current draft picture?

[bleedspeed]

Here is the problem. If all goes right realistically. We will have our pick this year. Then in in 2017 we will be a broader line playoff team. That pick becomes attractive at the trade deadline for a team dumping a solid player to rebuild that could push us up in the standings or filling a hole on the roster. (I think of guys like Portis or Clint Capela as guys that can be had with this pick)

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

LOL, so Wolves are finally sitting pretty with two 1st overall pick plus a bunch of other young talents but you guys come here to b/tch about freaking Payne?! Haha LOSERS!!!

Yeah, we are probably spending too much time talking about this trade. Payne should be our 3rd string PF this year, and if the Wolves woeful playoff record continues, the asset we give up for him would be a second rounder in 2021...not a very consequential trade for either team. But I take a more optimistic viewpoint, and think that the Adreian Payne I watched in Vegas this summer will be one of several contributors that will help the Wolves get to the playoffs this year. And if so, it would be difficult to get to upset about not having a pick somewhere in the 20s next year...we'll be too busy analyzing our first round opponent!

Yeah, lost in these conversations is the fact that 99% of mid to late first round picks are at beat rotation players. Payne only needs to be solid contributor to justify the pick.

99% is a little high. Kawhi and Giannis were both 15th picks. Gobert was a late round pick. Pasrons, Mitroic, Lawson, Bledsoe, Teauge, all late round picks. Just because the Wolves have always sucked drafting, doesn't mean there weren't other players

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

LST -- it's not even a first round pick next year, but in 2017. So we have TWO years for Payne to show us he was worthy of a late first round pick...

It's basically damned if you do damned if you don't deal. If the Wolves make the playoffs great, but it will cut our feet out from underneath us a bit. If it's a second rounder, that means the Wolves still haven't made the playoffs and the pick will probably be coming from the Seattle Timberwolves

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Here is the problem. If all goes right realistically. We will have our pick this year. Then in in 2017 we will be a broader line playoff team. That pick becomes attractive at the trade deadline for a team dumping a solid player to rebuild that could push us up in the standings or filling a hole on the roster. (I think of guys like Portis or Clint Capela as guys that can be had with this pick)

Bleed, you mention that Portis is the kind of guy that you can get with a #20 pick, and I agree. But I would argue that we already have a Bobby Portis type guy on our roster...and his name is Adreian Payne. I got a chance to watch both of them closely in several games in Vegas (and on TV in college), and they are really quite similar. they are both long, athletic and active, and willing to do the dirty work. Payne was a better 3-point shooter in college, but at least against the Wolves, Portis showed that he might have some range himself. They not only looked similar on the court, but their stats were almost identical for the week. Payne was 14.2 and 8.4, and Portis was 14.5 and 8.7. the biggest difference in their games, though, is that Payne was much more adept at facilitating the offense and passing...1.8 APG compared to just .3 APG for Portis.

I think that's why Flip made the deal. He knew there was a chance that someone as good or better than Payne might be available with a late first rounder in 2017 or later, or that a first rounder might be a piece he could use in a future deal, but he saw an opportunity to bring in a player that he thought could really fit well, so he made the surer choice. Now, if Adreian Payne turns out to be the player we saw the last 30 games of 2015, I will agree that Flip made a bad deal. But I don't think we learned much watching a rookie player on a bad team for whom he never even had a chance to participate in any practices. I find his performance for 4 years in the Big 10 and at Summer League after practicing with his team as a much better barometer of what he can do. I guess we'll have to see how this plays out.