GDT: Sixers showing some brotherly love?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

How many teams have started out 8-8 and then gone 4-17 or whatever it is with essentially the same personnel?

1?

Explanation? Here may be some reasons---(1) Flip's death had them coming out the gate playing over their head; (2) Easy Schedule to begin the year: (3) The Wolves were worst in the league last year and team's weren't geared up to take them real seriously and after we knocked off some good teams on the road, that changed.

To be fair, prior to the season, I thought a 4 - 17 stretch was far more likely than an 8 - 8 stretch. Maybe it can be chalked up to a hot start in a relatively small sample size?

8-8 certainly exceeded expectations, but 4-17 is a pace of 16 wins. We won 16 games last year with a roster put together with gum and duct tape. Given our lack of injuries and fairly soft schedule in the middle of this latest stretch, I agree that we are underachieving.

I think it's due to a bunch of variables, some within the control of our coaching staff, some outside of it. But the "youth card" no longer works, especially when we lose to other youthful squads like Orlando, Milwaukee, and Philly, and the "injury card" is unavailable at the moment. And the "our players aren't as good as we thought they were" card is messy and saps hope from the fanbase. So that leaves only one card left: The Coach.

[AbeVigodaLive]

How many teams have started out 8-8 and then gone 4-17 or whatever it is with essentially the same personnel?

1?

Explanation? Here may be some reasons---(1) Flip's death had them coming out the gate playing over their head; (2) Easy Schedule to begin the year: (3) The Wolves were worst in the league last year and team's weren't geared up to take them real seriously and after we knocked off some good teams on the road, that changed.

To be fair, prior to the season, I thought a 4 - 17 stretch was far more likely than an 8 - 8 stretch. Maybe it can be chalked up to a hot start in a relatively small sample size?

8-8 certainly exceeded expectations, but 4-17 is a pace of 16 wins. We won 16 games last year with a roster put together with gum and duct tape. Given our lack of injuries and fairly soft schedule in the middle of this latest stretch, I agree that we are underachieving.

I think it's due to a bunch of variables, some within the control of our coaching staff, some outside of it. But the "youth card" no longer works, especially when we lose to other youthful squads like Orlando, Milwaukee, and Philly, and the "injury card" is unavailable at the moment. And the "our players aren't as good as we thought they were" card is messy and saps hope from the fanbase. So that leaves only one card left: The Coach.

I think it speaks to the entire organization at this point. It's a bit of a "lost" season. There's no direction anywhere in the organization.

- Taylor is looking to sell part of the team.
- The POBO is largely absent and only a placeholder.
- The coach is largely criticize and only a placeholder.

That trickles down. There's just nothing really there at the moment. Sure, it's a young team of super promising players. But they play at a slower pace in an old style. It seems like the team is moving forward. But the team is getting worse.

Just some weird situations at play this season (some of which were unavoidable) that is stalling the latest rebuild a bit.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

How many teams have started out 8-8 and then gone 4-17 or whatever it is with essentially the same personnel?

1?

Explanation? Here may be some reasons---(1) Flip's death had them coming out the gate playing over their head; (2) Easy Schedule to begin the year: (3) The Wolves were worst in the league last year and team's weren't geared up to take them real seriously and after we knocked off some good teams on the road, that changed.

To be fair, prior to the season, I thought a 4 - 17 stretch was far more likely than an 8 - 8 stretch. Maybe it can be chalked up to a hot start in a relatively small sample size?

8-8 certainly exceeded expectations, but 4-17 is a pace of 16 wins. We won 16 games last year with a roster put together with gum and duct tape. Given our lack of injuries and fairly soft schedule in the middle of this latest stretch, I agree that we are underachieving.

I think it's due to a bunch of variables, some within the control of our coaching staff, some outside of it. But the "youth card" no longer works, especially when we lose to other youthful squads like Orlando, Milwaukee, and Philly, and the "injury card" is unavailable at the moment. And the "our players aren't as good as we thought they were" card is messy and saps hope from the fanbase. So that leaves only one card left: The Coach.

This. I'm getting tired of the apologists saying this overall record was expected-so other teams are allowed to adjust to us but somehow we can't change ours?

[Coolbreeze44]

How many teams have started out 8-8 and then gone 4-17 or whatever it is with essentially the same personnel?

1?

Explanation? Here may be some reasons---(1) Flip's death had them coming out the gate playing over their head; (2) Easy Schedule to begin the year: (3) The Wolves were worst in the league last year and team's weren't geared up to take them real seriously and after we knocked off some good teams on the road, that changed.

To be fair, prior to the season, I thought a 4 - 17 stretch was far more likely than an 8 - 8 stretch. Maybe it can be chalked up to a hot start in a relatively small sample size?

8-8 certainly exceeded expectations, but 4-17 is a pace of 16 wins. We won 16 games last year with a roster put together with gum and duct tape. Given our lack of injuries and fairly soft schedule in the middle of this latest stretch, I agree that we are underachieving.

I think it's due to a bunch of variables, some within the control of our coaching staff, some outside of it. But the "youth card" no longer works, especially when we lose to other youthful squads like Orlando, Milwaukee, and Philly, and the "injury card" is unavailable at the moment. And the "our players aren't as good as we thought they were" card is messy and saps hope from the fanbase. So that leaves only one card left: The Coach.

Very well stated Q - agree with all of it.

[Lipoli390]

How many teams have started out 8-8 and then gone 4-17 or whatever it is with essentially the same personnel?

1?

Explanation? Here may be some reasons---(1) Flip's death had them coming out the gate playing over their head; (2) Easy Schedule to begin the year: (3) The Wolves were worst in the league last year and team's weren't geared up to take them real seriously and after we knocked off some good teams on the road, that changed.

To be fair, prior to the season, I thought a 4 - 17 stretch was far more likely than an 8 - 8 stretch. Maybe it can be chalked up to a hot start in a relatively small sample size?

8-8 certainly exceeded expectations, but 4-17 is a pace of 16 wins. We won 16 games last year with a roster put together with gum and duct tape. Given our lack of injuries and fairly soft schedule in the middle of this latest stretch, I agree that we are underachieving.

I think it's due to a bunch of variables, some within the control of our coaching staff, some outside of it. But the "youth card" no longer works, especially when we lose to other youthful squads like Orlando, Milwaukee, and Philly, and the "injury card" is unavailable at the moment. And the "our players aren't as good as we thought they were" card is messy and saps hope from the fanbase. So that leaves only one card left: The Coach.

Very well stated Q - agree with all of it.

I agree, You nailed it, Q.

I'll add that the "our players aren't as good as we thought they were" argument isn't just messy and defeatist; it's also wrong. Does Wiggins have motor and handle issues? Yes, but he has phenomenal talent and by all accounts he's very coachable and determined to improve. Does LaVine have a lot to learn? Yes, but his combination of incredible athleticism and a sweet shooting stroke with big time range makes him a very high upside prospect at age 20 with very limited college playing time under his belt. I trust my eye test and the sentiments of a lot of experts around the Country who are extremely high on the talent of Towns, Wiggins and LaVine. Flip also told me that there was a lot of interest around the League in Dieng and Shabazz, but he didn't want to trade them. The consensus around the League is that we have the most talented young core in the NBA. We also have plenty of experienced players to mentor the young guys and add stability on the court.

I believe the organization has reached a new low. My view stems from a number of things, many already mentioned:

1. Regressing at a time when, with such young talent and no significant injuries, we should be improving.

2. Losing to teams that are also young and clearly less talented.

3. Playing an antiquated style that fails to incorporate the 3-point shot into the offensive game plan

4. Playing a slow-paced half-court style that doesn't reflect the strengths of our young, athletic personnel.

5. A head coach who not only fails to get the most out of his players on the court, but who can't relate well to the media, which is the conduit to the fans.

6. As Abe noted, an absentee POBO.

Let me give you some more insight as a season ticket holder into the how bad this organization is right now.

In the past, even at our worst with Kahn and Rambis, the organization did a great job of reaching out to season ticket holders, making coaches and executives accessible and accountable to fans. Along with many other season ticket holders, I have multiple opportunities to hear directly from and pointedly question David Kahn, Kurt Rambis, Rob Babcock and others in basketball operations. After Kahn left, we have multiple opportunities to talk directly with Flip and other members of the basketball ops department as well as front-line players including Kevin Love. I also remember opportunities to hear from and question team President Chris Wright.

So far this season, I'm not aware of a single opportunity for a group of season ticket holders to meet with Milt Newton, Sam Mitchell or any member of our basketball ops or coaching staff. No meetings with Chris Wright either. I'm aware of two opportunities to actually hear from and talk to players -- one with Andre Miller and the other (which I attended) with Rudez after hearing from the team's new windbag head of sales.

This strikes me as an organization in decline. And that's sad, because Flip left us with a core of young talent that should have this organization on an upward path with an excited fan base and engaged community. But when you don't hire a top notch coaching staff to get the most out of your young players and when that coaching staff employs an slow, old-school approach to offense, you're not going to excite the fan base with what you put on the court. Add to that a head coach who is outwardly hostile and condescending to the media and a front office largely indifferent to the season ticket holders who have loyally supported this franchise through thick and thin. The end result is apathy and decline.

It's not to late to change the path this organization is on. Flip's passing certainly through a curve ball into the mix. But a change in path has to come from the top and I'm not sure Glen has it in him. So this is my message to Glen. Either step up, engage with energy and fix these things or sell the team NOW to someone who will.

[thedoper]

How many teams have started out 8-8 and then gone 4-17 or whatever it is with essentially the same personnel?

1?

Explanation? Here may be some reasons---(1) Flip's death had them coming out the gate playing over their head; (2) Easy Schedule to begin the year: (3) The Wolves were worst in the league last year and team's weren't geared up to take them real seriously and after we knocked off some good teams on the road, that changed.

To be fair, prior to the season, I thought a 4 - 17 stretch was far more likely than an 8 - 8 stretch. Maybe it can be chalked up to a hot start in a relatively small sample size?

8-8 certainly exceeded expectations, but 4-17 is a pace of 16 wins. We won 16 games last year with a roster put together with gum and duct tape. Given our lack of injuries and fairly soft schedule in the middle of this latest stretch, I agree that we are underachieving.

I think it's due to a bunch of variables, some within the control of our coaching staff, some outside of it. But the "youth card" no longer works, especially when we lose to other youthful squads like Orlando, Milwaukee, and Philly, and the "injury card" is unavailable at the moment. And the "our players aren't as good as we thought they were" card is messy and saps hope from the fanbase. So that leaves only one card left: The Coach.

Very well stated Q - agree with all of it.

I agree, You nailed it, Q.

I'll add that the "our players aren't as good as we thought they were" argument isn't just messy and defeatist; it's also wrong. Does Wiggins have motor and handle issues? Yes, but he has phenomenal talent and by all accounts he's very coachable and determined to improve. Does LaVine have a lot to learn? Yes, but his combination of incredible athleticism and a sweet shooting stroke with big time range makes him a very high upside prospect at age 20 with very limited college playing time under his belt. I trust my eye test and the sentiments of a lot of experts around the Country who are extremely high on the talent of Towns, Wiggins and LaVine. Flip also told me that there was a lot of interest around the League in Dieng and Shabazz, but he didn't want to trade them. The consensus around the League is that we have the most talented young core in the NBA. We also have plenty of experienced players to mentor the young guys and add stability on the court.

The believe the organization has reach a new low. My view stems from a number of things, many already mentioned:

1. Regressing at a time when, with such young talent and no significant injuries, we should be improving.

2. Losing to teams that are also young and clearly less talented.

3. Playing an antiquated style that fails to incorporate the 3-point shot into the offensive game plan

4. Playing a slow-paced half-court style that doesn't reflect the strengths of our young, athletic personnel.

5. A head coach who not only fails to get the most out of his players on the court, but who can't relate well to the media, which is the conduit to the fans.

6. As Abe noted, an absentee POBO.

Let me give you some more insight as a season ticket holder into the how bad this organization is right now.

In the past, even at our worst with Kahn and Rambis, the organization did a great job of reaching out to season ticket holders, making coaches and executives accessible and accountable to fans. Along with many other season ticket holders, I have multiple opportunities to hear directly from and pointedly question David Kahn, Kurt Rambis, Rob Babcock and others in basketball operations. After Kahn left, we have multiple opportunities to talk directly with Flip and other members of the basketball ops department as well as front-line players including Kevin Love. I also remember opportunities to hear from and question team President Chris Wright.

So far this season, I'm not aware of a single opportunity for a group of season ticket holders to meet with Milt Newton, Sam Mitchell or any member of our basketball ops or coaching staff. No meetings with Chris Wright either. I'm aware of two opportunities to actually hear from and talk to players -- one with Andre Miller and the other (which I attended) with Rudez after hearing from the team's new windbag head of sales.

This strikes me as an organization in decline. And that's sad, because Flip left us with a core of young talent that should have this organization on an upward path with an excited fan base and engaged community. But when you don't hire a top notch coaching staff to get the most out of your young players and when that coaching staff employs an slow, old-school approach to offense, you're not going to excite the fan base with what you put on the court. Add to that a head coach who is outwardly hostile and condescending to the media and a front office largely indifferent to the season ticket holders who have loyally supported this franchise through thick and thin. The end result is apathy and decline.

It's not to late to change the path this organization is on. Flip's passing certainly through a curve ball into the mix. But a change in path has to come from the top and I'm not sure Glen has it in him. So this is my message to Glen. Either step up, engage with energy and fix these things or sell the team NOW to someone who will.

Woohoo Lip for GM!!! I'm behind you man.