Game Report - Wolves v. Clippers

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Without beating a dead horse, another game = another 40 minutes for Rubio and 42 for Wiggins (in another loss).

Jon Krawczynski on Twitter (when discussing that Pek is hurting but REALLY wants to give it a shot tomorrow night) tweeted this about Flip: "it's always his plan to limit minutes, but he gets into the heat of the moment and wants to win."

I don't want to sound negative because I'm more invested and excited about this franchise than ever before, that but quote is extremely frightening from a long-term perspective. Maybe nothing bad comes of it, but IF this becomes a Thib's sort of issue where Flip just runs out best players into the ground, then we truly have no hope.

It's a pretty simple fix. The bench has to do better to keep us in games and even make up some ground so Flip doesn't need to play the starters as much as he does. Our backups need to play better which is tough to do considering how short we have been on bodies. Playing Ricky and Wiggins less means less close games which eliminates potential wins. Some may be ok with that, but there's nothing to build on going into next year if we don't stay competitive on a consistent basis. A rookie isn't going to add the 10 extra wins we'd need to make the playoffs in the West next year so losing games that you could win if you go all out doesn't make sense this year. Ricky said it himself. The team needs to learn how to win. Better to learn now then burn another year next year trying to learn because we wanted a better rookie who won't be enough to put us in the playoffs anyway. Wiggins and Ricky are young and don't have any playoff minutes on their bodies. That's what grinds players down. Not high 30's minutes at 19 and 24-25. The only reason to keep player's minutes down during the regular season is to keep them fresh for the playoff run. We don't have a playoff run to save guys for so they can use the extra month to recover after the year.

[Coolbreeze44]

I would disagree with Khans to a certain extent. Injury occurrence is more common when a player is tired. He's right that long playoff runs can be more damaging to the body. But fatigue and risk can't be discounted inside a particular game. And the more times you push that envelope, the greater the risk becomes. To be honest, I would like to see Andrew play 40 minutes every night right now. But I say that knowing he is exposing himself to greater risk in doing so.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

I think we all know that Pops rests his players a lot and is the reason they're healthy and strong in the finals every year. That's the model if we could ever get enough talented players to apply that formula.

[Lipoli390]

not quite sure why everybody is loving Payne right now. Yea he hustles and he plays hard...but that's it. He can't shoot to save his life. He's pretty much playing the same as Jeff Adrien, except the fact that Adrien costed us a 10 day contract, and Payne a 1st round pick

Adrien was a 28 year old with 6 years experience, he is who he is. Payne may be 23, but he is a rookie and has plenty of room to grow. One can fit our future plans, the other can't. It's that simple.
Payne also made some big defensive plays and came up with some key rebounds. I love how he snatches the ball on rebounds. Guy has great hands. He also has the potential to be a decent shooter out to the 3 point line, a big like that is key to play with a big who operates in the paint, like pek.

I also don't get why people are so up in arms about the pick we traded for Payne. We currently have 4 Rookies, 4 Sophomores, and Ricky (who's 24) on the roster. We add another rookie this year, and another next year. By 2017's draft we will either be in the playoffs, needing to add vets, not another rookie. Or many of our players/plans will not have panned out, and we will be drafting within the lottery where that pick is protected.

The value of that first round pick was its trade value. If we re a playoff team by 2017 and in need of a key vet or two, that pick we gave up for Payne could be a key trade chip to get the vet we need. I like what I've seen from Payne so far and he may end up being worth the pick we gave up to get him. But a future first round pick likely in the teens was a pretty stiff price to pay for a guy who couldn't come close to cracking the rotation of his former NBA team and who underwhelmed in his D-League stint. But again, I like what I've seen so far.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

By 2017, the 2019 pick will be within a reasonable period to be used if needed and you should never trade 2 firsts for a vet unless it is a superstar. Late firsts also change hands relatively easily so we may have an asset on our team who could get us a pick. If Payne is a rotation player in 2017 it's worth it. End of story. You're talking about using it to get a rotation guy so if Payne turns into one you got the same value. I'd rather trade for a 24 year old on a good rookie deal than a vet who may be a year or two rental for a much higher salary. The best contracts in the league are good players on rookie deals so if Payne becomes a good player in a year or two he becomes a bargain. We control Payne for up to 9 years if we choose which is much longer than most of these veteran pieces will last with the teams that acquired them.

[zigzag22 [enjin:6591633]]

The argument that Flip can run certain guys longer because we won't make the playoffs and have longer to rest is downright absurd and lacks any understanding of the human body. There's a reason the "4 games in 5 nights" topic is one of the two most important issues right now for Commissioner Silver.

I too want to be entertained and see entertaining T-Wolves basketball, and I know this topic isn't exciting, but this isn't NBA 2k15 and NO you can not turn fatigue "OFF." We can be naive and pretend nothing bad will happen from it, but the Chicago Bulls are a prime example of players falling apart because they played too many (unnecessary) minutes.

Sorry. End of rant.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

1 year of extended minutes means nothing especially with no big off season international commitments. It took several years of big minutes for Thibs' guys to wear down significantly and they also have playoff runs to go with the extended regular season minutes. Ricky also didn't play most of this season because of the ankle injury so it's not like it's going to be an 82 game grind for him. If he plays the rest of the year that will be a 39 game season for him. That's about a college seasons' worth of games. Again, the minutes effect for cumulative fatigue happens down the line involving multiple years of big minutes and playoff runs. If they come out injury free it is a no harm no foul in my mind.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Without beating a dead horse, another game = another 40 minutes for Rubio and 42 for Wiggins (in another loss).

Jon Krawczynski on Twitter (when discussing that Pek is hurting but REALLY wants to give it a shot tomorrow night) tweeted this about Flip: "it's always his plan to limit minutes, but he gets into the heat of the moment and wants to win."

I don't want to sound negative because I'm more invested and excited about this franchise than ever before, that but quote is extremely frightening from a long-term perspective. Maybe nothing bad comes of it, but IF this becomes a Thib's sort of issue where Flip just runs out best players into the ground, then we truly have no hope.

I think the Thibs issue is a lot of nothing. Derrick Rose has played only one season averaging more than 35 mpg under Thibodeau. The first one... he also averaged more than 35 mpg under Del Negro.

Deng and Butler seem to be exceptions and the only players with multiple seasons at 35+mpg under Thibs.

[mrhockey89]

Good report Lip. I'm glad you mentioned LaVine at the 2. I've been saying all year that LaVine is a SG and not a PG, and it's seemingly a good fit, so I was very excited to see Flip finally try it out.

That said... LaVine is still soooo raw. Love the potential, but the kid definitely needs to slow down a bit in the mental aspect of the game. You could see when he pushed the pace on that fast break that he paused, made up his mind he was going to split the defenders, and ended up picking up the charge running over the defender. All he had to do was slow up, and if the defense was going to draw in like that, then make the pass for the open shot. Hopefully he gets this over time...I'm sure it'll eventually come.

[MikkeMan]

I think the Thibs issue is a lot of nothing. Derrick Rose has played only one season averaging more than 35 mpg under Thibodeau. The first one... he also averaged more than 35 mpg under Del Negro.

Deng and Butler seem to be exceptions and the only players with multiple seasons at 35+mpg under Thibs.

Abe, Thibs playing too many minutes his players has been real issue. If you check just their average minutes, they won't seem that bad but those averages are lower mainly because his players have had typically quite many injuries and thus they have played in some games just couple of minutes. One could wonder whether frequent injuries are because those mega minutes his players tend to play in tight games. 12-13 playoffs were maybe most drastic example about Thibs going with extremely short rotation. In first four games it was Deng, Hinrich and Boozer playing mega minutes. After Hinrich was injured in 4th game (played 60 minutes in that triple overtime game), Nate Robinson started playing mega minutes. In 5th game Deng was injured and after that Butler, Belinelli and Noah started playing 40+ minutes.

In 12-13 season, Chicago team players played total 123 games with 40 or more minutes in regular season. In 12 post season games they played 32 more games with 40 or more minutes. These figures are crazy compared to some other teams. For example San Antonio players played in same year total of 16 games with 40 or more minutes. In playoffs also San Antonio used less bench but still they had only 21 40+ minutes games from their players and they played 21 playoff games that year.

Even Thibs has been playing his starters less later but still Chicago players have this season already 48 games with 40+ minutes. In comparision San Antonio has about ten, Golden State about 20 and Atlanta just one that kind of game.