Rubio effect

[TheGrey08]

To be fair... is Q ripping LaVine... or Flip? To me it seems like he's ripping Flip.

And that's a BIG, big difference. He's not a PG. It's clear. By some metrics, he's the worst rotation player in the league when at the 1. That's not necessarily LaVine's fault. He's not a PG. He doesn't have the ability.

So, as Q points out, wouldn't he be better served improving as a young guy at a position where he does have an NBA future and where he isn't stunting the growth of other young guys around him?

There was plenty of Lavine bashing and I wouldn't say he has NO ability to play PG either. We can't expect a 19 yr old rookie with little to no PG experience on any level to even come out average at the position. He showed flashes that he might be capable with more experience, practice & overall improvement in his game.

[slimcalhoun27 [enjin:6640095]]

What kind of evaluation at PG did he actually have? He had zero support during that time besides for Shabazz who is not a catch and shoot player, or Wiggins? No Rubio, Martin, Pek, Brewer was being traded, Mo was injured a bit, and so was everyone's else during that time.

I'm not saying he would have done any worse, but for God sakes, kid had very little supporting cast at the time. Tough to gauge him at all. I like his skill set, just need one more off season of strength training, bulking up, working on his skill and playing more.

[TheGrey08]

What kind of evaluation at PG did he actually have? He had zero support during that time besides for Shabazz who is not a catch and shoot player, or Wiggins? No Rubio, Martin, Pek, Brewer was being traded, Mo was injured a bit, and so was everyone's else during that time.

I'm not saying he would have done any worse, but for God sakes, kid had very little supporting cast at the time. Tough to gauge him at all. I like his skill set, just need one more off season of strength training, bulking up, working on his skill and playing more.

Very good point.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

What kind of evaluation at PG did he actually have? He had zero support during that time besides for Shabazz who is not a catch and shoot player, or Wiggins? No Rubio, Martin, Pek, Brewer was being traded, Mo was injured a bit, and so was everyone's else during that time.

I'm not saying he would have done any worse, but for God sakes, kid had very little supporting cast at the time. Tough to gauge him at all. I like his skill set, just need one more off season of strength training, bulking up, working on his skill and playing more.

It doesn't take a professional scout to see basic things he's unable to execute that you would expect of a point guard at almost any higher level of basketball, regardless of who he's playing with:

- Picks up his dribble before having someone to pass to.
- Passes into double-teams.
- Gets his pocket picked cleanly as he brings the ball up the court.
- Doesn't turn the corner on pick and rolls to attack the hoop.

I blame Flip, not Zach. I was open-minded to it at the time he tried him at PG, but it didn't take very long to see that it wasn't going to work. And given how much he was playing Mo over Zach before Rubio got back, I thought Flip had given up on this experiment.

I think Zach has four physical gifts: Jumping, straight-line speed, lateral speed, and the ability to get his shot off from almost anywhere. What he doesn't have are the skills and instincts of a point guard. To me he shows potential as a SG with some level of freedom to take shots, including tough ones. Guys like Gerald Green, Jamaal Crawford, and even Kevin Martin take a lot of questionable shots - but that's kinda what they're paid to do: Go out and create offense.

I can see him playing some PG next to a dynamic SG that has natural PG instincts (like D'Angelo Russell!), but not as the sole decision-maker and ball handler.

[Lipoli390]

I agree with Q on this. Zach is not a PG and Flip has done a disservice to Zach and the team by continuing to cast him as a PG. Zach has the potential to be a superb two-way SG. Good coaches put players in positions where they have the best chance of success. Flip has been a very poor coach when it comes to his use of LaVine.

[Phenom]

I didn't mind Flip putting Zach at point under the circumstances for sure and it should be noted that it was done with kid gloves on. If nothing else, it gives him a different perspective on the floor. Now that Ricky is back and with LoBrow available, I hope Flip will cut the cord in the second half of the year. Time to let Zach fly.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I didn't mind Flip putting Zach at point under the circumstances for sure and it should be noted that it was done with kid gloves on. If nothing else, it gives him a different perspective on the floor. Now that Ricky is back and with LoBrow available, I hope Flip will cut the cord in the second half of the year. Time to let Zach fly.

Agreed Phenom, it was a roll of the dice and at minimum Zach got a chance to view things from a different perspective. But it's just hard to see him as a game managing PG, which is how Flip utilizes him at that position. He brings the ball up, throws it to a big at the elbow, or does some half-hearted pick and pop where he always swings it to the big. It really doesn't seem to benefit anybody at this point, especially Zach.

[MikkeMan]

Sample size is increases (18 games now) but Rubio effect remains remarkable.

Here are updated values after Clippers game:

Wolves Ortg with Rubio has been 105.9
Wolves Ortg without Rubio has been 96.6

(I know that Ortg without Rubio shouldn't change since he has played all games lately. So I assume that I have had it wrongly calculated in earlier posts)

Wolves Drtg with Rubio has been 107.8
Wolves Drtg without Rubio has been 108.5

Those 18 Wolves opponents that they have played with Rubio have average Ortg 104.2 and average Drtg 101.6. Whole league without Wolves has average Ortg 102.6 and average Drtg is 102.3. So Wolves have had currently clearly tighter schedule with Rubio than without him, which makes above numbers even more impressive.

When Ortg and Drtg with Rubio is compensated with the strength of schedule, we will get following numbers:

Wolves compensated Ortg with Rubio has been 106.6
Wolves compensated Drtg with Rubio has been 106.1

How Wolves would rank in league with those numbers? Their offense would be 6th best (tied with Atlanta) and their defense 27th.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Usually Rubio's impact is felt more profoundly on the defensive end; interesting numbers in terms of how he's driven more improvement in our offense, despite his continued struggles to score efficiently. Obviously he is a maestro with setting people up, but historically his On/Off numbers have tilted toward more of an impact on defense.

Part of this could be sample size. We have played a murderers' row of opponents lately - I mean some of the best offenses in the NBA multiple times (Golden State, Clippers, Atlanta, etc.).

[AbeVigodaLive]

I know he has some duds. Last night was one of them...

But what are Kevin Martin's ratings? Most of Rubio's time has been spent with Martin on the court, right? And he's the team's most prolific and savvy scorer, so that has to help a bit too.