Q12543 wrote:It's absurd that we're even debating Rubio's value to this franchise. Madness I say!
He's a flawed shooter that is struggling to improve. He's also the MVP of the team - hands down.
To be fair, I don't think many are arguing that Rubio is the best player on a bad team right now.
There is some disagreement (as there always is with Rubio) about just how much we should expect his shooting (or overall game) to improve.
Can he be more than the best player on a bad team?
That's a loaded question. What's your real question?
Didn't mean for it to be loaded. That's my legit question. The Wolves are bad. Rubio is the team's most important player right now. I don't know how much better the Wolves can get. But I think they have more room for improvement than Rubio does... if that makes any sense.
I'm not saying Rubio can't be a critical part of a playoff team. In fact, his game might be more suited for "complementary player on a great team."
Abe, Right now he's the best player on an average team, seeing that we're playing about .500 ball with him as our starting PG (and that exceeds my expectations by the way). He can be a great player on a great team, but yeah, that depends more on the "team" part than it does on Rubio. He's already great.
Q12543 wrote:Abe, Right now he's the best player on an average team, seeing that we're playing about .500 ball with him as our starting PG (and that exceeds my expectations by the way). He can be a great player on a great team, but yeah, that depends more on the "team" part than it does on Rubio. He's already great.
I don't think this team is a .500 team over 82 games. But I won't argue about much else... especially since "great" can be subjective.
Q12543 wrote:Abe, Right now he's the best player on an average team, seeing that we're playing about .500 ball with him as our starting PG (and that exceeds my expectations by the way). He can be a great player on a great team, but yeah, that depends more on the "team" part than it does on Rubio. He's already great.
I don't think this team is a .500 team over 82 games. But I won't argue about much else... especially since "great" can be subjective.
I agree with Q and quite frankly it kinda pisses me off hearing everyone (especially media) call the Wolves a "bad team" while pointing at their record.. They were missing their THREE best players nearly half the damn year. They've underachieved due to injury. It's that simple. They're definitely in the playoff hunt without injuries. Not saying they would have gotten in, but they would have been in the picture.
If Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka all went down for 2 months they'd have a shit record too. Would they be a "bad team"? Hell no
khans2k5 wrote:What's more important? The difference between a .250 and .500 winning percentage or the difference between title contention or not. That's why guys like Lebron are more valuable than Ricky. The Cavs aren't a title contender without Lebron. The Thunder aren't a title contender without Durant.
The context of being a contender doesn't help your argument in this case b/c both players have a lot of help. If Westbrook had a season ending injury they're no longer a contender. It's not just Durant.
When Lebron took his team to the WFC with no other superstar and his team would have been a borderline playoff team without him. He was THAT important to his team. A true MVP. Rubio is that type of player for his team now. With him they have a chance at the playoffs. Without him they don't.
The key for figuring who the MVP is is factoring how good they are with & without the player. The greater the drop off the more valuable that player is. As for the Wolves, they did drop off even more b/c they were missing Pek & Martin too. We certainly would have won more games if they played, but still wouldn't have been a playoff team.
If Wiggins doesn't turn into a superstar it doesn't matter how good Rubio gets at shooting. The hand wringng about Rubio's shooting is understandable but with another injury that could have affected his work on that aspect significantly I'm going to wait till next season to make more definatative answer on what he can do on that front. I'm Much more interested in what his pact can be the rest of the season with his strengths combined with some young players.
Q12543 wrote:Abe, Right now he's the best player on an average team, seeing that we're playing about .500 ball with him as our starting PG (and that exceeds my expectations by the way). He can be a great player on a great team, but yeah, that depends more on the "team" part than it does on Rubio. He's already great.
I don't think this team is a .500 team over 82 games. But I won't argue about much else... especially since "great" can be subjective.
I agree with Q and quite frankly it kinda pisses me off hearing everyone (especially media) call the Wolves a "bad team" while pointing at their record.. They were missing their THREE best players nearly half the damn year. They've underachieved due to injury. It's that simple. They're definitely in the playoff hunt without injuries. Not saying they would have gotten in, but they would have been in the picture.
If Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka all went down for 2 months they'd have a shit record too. Would they be a "bad team"? Hell no
I'm sorry if I don't consider the team's 7 - 6 record as PROOF that they are in the playoff race. And every team goes through injuries. The only reason the Wolves (even with that 54% winning percentage) would have a chance at 9th place in the West (out of the playoffs) is because OKC has been without Durant for 31 games and Westbrook for 14. They don't get a do-over because of a perfect world where everybody is healthy every game... neither do the Wolves.
And the Wolves were largely healthy last season and still finished 40 - 42. Was Kevin Love THAT much of a cancer?
Abe, I'm surprised at how much of a massive difference Rubio has made this season, as I kind of agree that even with a fully healthy roster, I had a hard time seeing this team compete for a playoff spot. I was thinking something in the upper 30s for win total would be about right. I landed on 25 wins as my estimate because I knew staying mostly healthy was a pipe dream (and of course, the injuries were worse than even I thought).
But the evidence continues to mount on the dramatic positive impact Ricky Rubio has when he's on the floor. Last season he was the one player with a better net On-Off rating than Kevin Love. This season he by far has the best On-Off rating of any player that has received regular minutes on the roster. We know what happened his rookie year after he went down. The wheels came off. We also have seen stretches where Ricky was healthy, but Pek/Martin were out, and we mostly stayed afloat.
So I'm even re-thinking my own perspective on Ricky's impact. The bottom-line: It's huge.
