KG Trade

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

LST, I thought last year's roster had a lot of promise. Injuries to key bench players and Adelman's slow-trigger in getting Shabazz/Dieng in the rotation, plus some unlucky close game scenarios ended up derailing the season. Believe it or not, our starting five last season had the second best +/- of all NBA starting 5s. Golden State had the only starting group better than us.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

LST, I thought last year's roster had a lot of promise. Injuries to key bench players and Adelman's slow-trigger in getting Shabazz/Dieng in the rotation, plus some unlucky close game scenarios ended up derailing the season. Believe it or not, our starting five last season had the second best +/- of all NBA starting 5s. Golden State had the only starting group better than us.

Yeah, we had some incredibly quick starts last season. But I was much more excited at the start of this season than I was at the start of last. I think that is because I never had the enthusiasm that almost everyone here had for Kevin Love...never saw him as a guy that could lead a team to a winning season. Plus my expectations for our rookies was low. To me 2015-6>2014-5>2013-4.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'll never understand why "negative" posters get ripped here.

Most of those (us) guys have a lot of stats and other data to back up our takes. For example...

- The Wolves have not made the playoffs since 2004. Longest current drought in the league.
- They haven't been above .500 since 2005. They've won more than 33 games only 9 times in 26 seasons.
- The franchise has 2 playoff series wins in 26 years.
- The franchise has the second worst winning percentage (although the Wolves are making a run at the Clippers for the worst)
But why bring up the past. Finally, this team has hope, right? Finally, we're heading down the right path, right?
- The Wolves are currently 16 - 60. They have an outside chance at the worst record in the L. Again.

Being frustrated with any of the above doesn't make somebody less of a fan. In fact, as long as a person is objective and fair in assessing a team... I think they can be one hell of a fan. I refuse to put on blinders. Offering legit criticism doesn't make somebody less of a fan.

The Wolves suck balls. There's no way to sugarcoat it. They MIGHT be decent or even good if Wiggins improves significantly quickly and another really super good guy comes via the draft... but even that is a couple seasons away and there's not even any guarantee that Wiggins or the draft pick will be franchise-changing players.

So... we're looking at the 2nd worst team in modern NBA history tanking through the 2nd worst season in the current NBA season. Nobody needs to apologize for pointing that out.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I'll never understand why "negative" posters get ripped here.

Most of those (us) guys have a lot of stats and other data to back up our takes. For example...

- The Wolves have not made the playoffs since 2004. Longest current drought in the league.
- They haven't been above .500 since 2005. They've won more than 33 games only 9 times in 26 seasons.
- The franchise has 2 playoff series wins in 26 years.
- The franchise has the second worst winning percentage (although the Wolves are making a run at the Clippers for the worst)
But why bring up the past. Finally, this team has hope, right? Finally, we're heading down the right path, right?
- The Wolves are currently 16 - 60. They have an outside chance at the worst record in the L. Again.

Being frustrated with any of the above doesn't make somebody less of a fan. In fact, as long as a person is objective and fair in assessing a team... I think they can be one hell of a fan. I refuse to put on blinders. Offering legit criticism doesn't make somebody less of a fan.

The Wolves suck balls. There's no way to sugarcoat it. They MIGHT be decent or even good if Wiggins improves significantly quickly and another really super good guy comes via the draft... but even that is a couple seasons away and there's not even any guarantee that Wiggins or the draft pick will be franchise-changing players.

So... we're looking at the 2nd worst team in modern NBA history tanking through the 2nd worst season in the current NBA season. Nobody needs to apologize for pointing that out.

Did you ever think maybe you guys get ripped because you shove our well known history of futility in our face (which we all know very well) as a reason why this team might not break through the futility? That's the biggest bullshit reason ever to hold against a team trying to get better. "Well you've sucked for a decade so you'll probably keep sucking forever". That's bullshit. The past has no bearing on what our future can be. If it was the same Owner, coach, GM for the past decade then that would make sense, but it is only the same owner. The last time Flip was here we were successful so it's bullshit to use the last 10 years as any hindrance to our ability to be better moving forward.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'll never understand why "negative" posters get ripped here.

Most of those (us) guys have a lot of stats and other data to back up our takes. For example...

- The Wolves have not made the playoffs since 2004. Longest current drought in the league.
- They haven't been above .500 since 2005. They've won more than 33 games only 9 times in 26 seasons.
- The franchise has 2 playoff series wins in 26 years.
- The franchise has the second worst winning percentage (although the Wolves are making a run at the Clippers for the worst)
But why bring up the past. Finally, this team has hope, right? Finally, we're heading down the right path, right?
- The Wolves are currently 16 - 60. They have an outside chance at the worst record in the L. Again.

Being frustrated with any of the above doesn't make somebody less of a fan. In fact, as long as a person is objective and fair in assessing a team... I think they can be one hell of a fan. I refuse to put on blinders. Offering legit criticism doesn't make somebody less of a fan.

The Wolves suck balls. There's no way to sugarcoat it. They MIGHT be decent or even good if Wiggins improves significantly quickly and another really super good guy comes via the draft... but even that is a couple seasons away and there's not even any guarantee that Wiggins or the draft pick will be franchise-changing players.

So... we're looking at the 2nd worst team in modern NBA history tanking through the 2nd worst season in the current NBA season. Nobody needs to apologize for pointing that out.

Did you ever think maybe you guys get ripped because you shove our well known history of futility in our face (which we all know very well) as a reason why this team might not break through the futility? That's the biggest bullshit reason ever to hold against a team trying to get better. "Well you've sucked for a decade so you'll probably keep sucking forever". That's bullshit. The past has no bearing on what our future can be. If it was the same Owner, coach, GM for the past decade then that would make sense, but it is only the same owner. The last time Flip was here we were successful so it's bullshit to use the last 10 years as any hindrance to our ability to be better moving forward.

Nobody is shoving it in your face. So stop with that.

I look at NBA history as a way to look at the future. For example, no player (since 1960) has shot as poorly for as long as Ricky Rubio and become an All Star player. He'd be the first. That's an anomaly... and it tempers my outlook for what he can become moving forward (despite really digging the certain things he can do and considering him one of the my favorite guys to watch in the NBA. History curbs expectations.) I'm being a realist by merely referencing the long odds to temper what I consider unrealistic expectations.

The CURRENT team is 16 - 60. This year. This year's team is playing an antiquated style of offense that peaked almost 15 years ago. This year's team has no discernable defensive strategy or identity. This year's team was led by two veteran players with serious injury concerns. And a very promising rookie who NBA history tells us still has a long ways to go to be a superstar or even a star and NBA history tells us it's no sure thing that he'll ever get there. NBA history tells us that when one owner oversees a team for 20 years and does this poorly... something is amiss starting at the top.

Let's put it this way... are the "negative" posters more often right in their prognostications about the team's outlook and the players... or wrong?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I'll never understand why "negative" posters get ripped here.

Most of those (us) guys have a lot of stats and other data to back up our takes. For example...

- The Wolves have not made the playoffs since 2004. Longest current drought in the league.
- They haven't been above .500 since 2005. They've won more than 33 games only 9 times in 26 seasons.
- The franchise has 2 playoff series wins in 26 years.
- The franchise has the second worst winning percentage (although the Wolves are making a run at the Clippers for the worst)
But why bring up the past. Finally, this team has hope, right? Finally, we're heading down the right path, right?
- The Wolves are currently 16 - 60. They have an outside chance at the worst record in the L. Again.

Being frustrated with any of the above doesn't make somebody less of a fan. In fact, as long as a person is objective and fair in assessing a team... I think they can be one hell of a fan. I refuse to put on blinders. Offering legit criticism doesn't make somebody less of a fan.

The Wolves suck balls. There's no way to sugarcoat it. They MIGHT be decent or even good if Wiggins improves significantly quickly and another really super good guy comes via the draft... but even that is a couple seasons away and there's not even any guarantee that Wiggins or the draft pick will be franchise-changing players.

So... we're looking at the 2nd worst team in modern NBA history tanking through the 2nd worst season in the current NBA season. Nobody needs to apologize for pointing that out.

Did you ever think maybe you guys get ripped because you shove our well known history of futility in our face (which we all know very well) as a reason why this team might not break through the futility? That's the biggest bullshit reason ever to hold against a team trying to get better. "Well you've sucked for a decade so you'll probably keep sucking forever". That's bullshit. The past has no bearing on what our future can be. If it was the same Owner, coach, GM for the past decade then that would make sense, but it is only the same owner. The last time Flip was here we were successful so it's bullshit to use the last 10 years as any hindrance to our ability to be better moving forward.

Nobody is shoving it in your face. So stop with that.

I look at NBA history as a way to look at the future. For example, no player (since 1960) has shot as poorly for as long as Ricky Rubio and become an All Star player. He'd be the first. That's an anomaly... and it tempers my outlook for what he can become moving forward (despite really digging the certain things he can do and considering him one of the my favorite guys to watch in the NBA. History curbs expectations.) I'm being a realist by merely referencing the long odds to temper what I consider unrealistic expectations.

The CURRENT team is 16 - 60. This year. This year's team is playing an antiquated style of offense that peaked almost 15 years ago. This year's team has no discernable defensive strategy or identity. This year's team was led by two veteran players with serious injury concerns. And a very promising rookie who NBA history tells us still has a long ways to go to be a superstar or even a star and NBA history tells us it's no sure thing that he'll ever get there. NBA history tells us that when one owner oversees a team for 20 years and does this poorly... something is amiss starting at the top.

Let's put it this way... are the "negative" posters more often right in their prognostications about the team's outlook and the players... or wrong?

So you argue you aren't shoving the team's history in our face and then you proceed to shove our current year's history in my face as it being more likely why we can't/won't turn this around because of our history. If history decides how the future will go, why should the T Wolves try any more. The last decade has decided their future right? Because they would have to break the chain of futility to break through, but history says we're likely to be bad forever? Do you hear yourself? History doesn't decide the future. Breakthroughs can happen at any time regardless of the past. You call it realism. It's pessimism. Being realistic is we have been bad. Being pessimistic is we will continue to be bad because of our history. You are a pessimist more than a realist.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'll never understand why "negative" posters get ripped here.

Most of those (us) guys have a lot of stats and other data to back up our takes. For example...

- The Wolves have not made the playoffs since 2004. Longest current drought in the league.
- They haven't been above .500 since 2005. They've won more than 33 games only 9 times in 26 seasons.
- The franchise has 2 playoff series wins in 26 years.
- The franchise has the second worst winning percentage (although the Wolves are making a run at the Clippers for the worst)
But why bring up the past. Finally, this team has hope, right? Finally, we're heading down the right path, right?
- The Wolves are currently 16 - 60. They have an outside chance at the worst record in the L. Again.

Being frustrated with any of the above doesn't make somebody less of a fan. In fact, as long as a person is objective and fair in assessing a team... I think they can be one hell of a fan. I refuse to put on blinders. Offering legit criticism doesn't make somebody less of a fan.

The Wolves suck balls. There's no way to sugarcoat it. They MIGHT be decent or even good if Wiggins improves significantly quickly and another really super good guy comes via the draft... but even that is a couple seasons away and there's not even any guarantee that Wiggins or the draft pick will be franchise-changing players.

So... we're looking at the 2nd worst team in modern NBA history tanking through the 2nd worst season in the current NBA season. Nobody needs to apologize for pointing that out.

Did you ever think maybe you guys get ripped because you shove our well known history of futility in our face (which we all know very well) as a reason why this team might not break through the futility? That's the biggest bullshit reason ever to hold against a team trying to get better. "Well you've sucked for a decade so you'll probably keep sucking forever". That's bullshit. The past has no bearing on what our future can be. If it was the same Owner, coach, GM for the past decade then that would make sense, but it is only the same owner. The last time Flip was here we were successful so it's bullshit to use the last 10 years as any hindrance to our ability to be better moving forward.[/quote




Nobody is shoving it in your face. So stop with that.

I look at NBA history as a way to look at the future. For example, no player (since 1960) has shot as poorly for as long as Ricky Rubio and become an All Star player. He'd be the first. That's an anomaly... and it tempers my outlook for what he can become moving forward (despite really digging the certain things he can do and considering him one of the my favorite guys to watch in the NBA. History curbs expectations.) I'm being a realist by merely referencing the long odds to temper what I consider unrealistic expectations.

The CURRENT team is 16 - 60. This year. This year's team is playing an antiquated style of offense that peaked almost 15 years ago. This year's team has no discernable defensive strategy or identity. This year's team was led by two veteran players with serious injury concerns. And a very promising rookie who NBA history tells us still has a long ways to go to be a superstar or even a star and NBA history tells us it's no sure thing that he'll ever get there. NBA history tells us that when one owner oversees a team for 20 years and does this poorly... something is amiss starting at the top.

Let's put it this way... are the "negative" posters more often right in their prognostications about the team's outlook and the players... or wrong?

So you argue you aren't shoving the team's history in our face and then you proceed to shove our current year's history in my face as it being more likely why we can't/won't turn this around because of our history. If history decides how the future will go, why should the T Wolves try any more. The last decade has decided their future right? Because they would have to break the chain of futility to break through, but history says we're likely to be bad forever? Do you hear yourself? History doesn't decide the future. Breakthroughs can happen at any time regardless of the past. You call it realism. It's pessimism. Being realistic is we have been bad. Being pessimistic is we will continue to be bad because of our history. You are a pessimist more than a realist.

Calm down. So you didn't like that I used past history to point out things are bleak for the Wolves future. And now you don't like that I'm using our history THIS season to point out that the team is very far away from competing.

Don't know what you want from me here.

Pessimist? I call bullshit. The team is 16 - 60. It is terrible. That's being objective. And unless the team strikes it HUGE in the draft and with Wiggins... I don't see a terrible team becoming more than mediocre anytime soon.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

http://www.mangameslost.com/nba-games-missed-and-tmitt-metrics-april-6-2015/

We're the most injured team in the league by a decent chunk. 16 wins is terrible, but we haven't been healthy at all this year and we aren't even close to an acceptable level of injuries to fairly judge a team's performance. You don't win playing your 10-15 guys significant minutes which we have had to do most of the year. That is why your argument about our wins this year saying we are extremely far away is bullshit. We have no idea how far away we are because we are playing guys who don't play in a normal season this much.

[kekgeek]

http://www.mangameslost.com/nba-games-missed-and-tmitt-metrics-april-6-2015/

We're the most injured team in the league by a decent chunk. 16 wins is terrible, but we haven't been healthy at all this year and we aren't even close to an acceptable level of injuries to fairly judge a team's performance. You don't win playing your 10-15 guys significant minutes which we have had to do most of the year. That is why your argument about our wins this year saying we are extremely far away is bullshit. We have no idea how far away we are because we are playing guys who don't play in a normal season this much.

To be fair won't this happen almost every year for the wolves Rubio, pek, kmart, shabazz and Bennett all are injury prone

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

http://www.mangameslost.com/nba-games-missed-and-tmitt-metrics-april-6-2015/

We're the most injured team in the league by a decent chunk. 16 wins is terrible, but we haven't been healthy at all this year and we aren't even close to an acceptable level of injuries to fairly judge a team's performance. You don't win playing your 10-15 guys significant minutes which we have had to do most of the year. That is why your argument about our wins this year saying we are extremely far away is bullshit. We have no idea how far away we are because we are playing guys who don't play in a normal season this much.

To be fair won't this happen almost every year for the wolves Rubio, pek, kmart, shabazz and Bennett all are injury prone

You can't reasonably say those guys are so injury prone that they should miss 50+% of every season they play in the league. Pek is the only one on that list I expect to miss most of next year. The rest should play more than they sit. Also we have another year for our depth to develop so I don't expect as big a drop off as we had this year where the majority of minutes are being played by guys in their first or second year. Flip is tanking so I don't see how this last month is accurately representing our team moving forward. Most of our vets could play, but he's sitting them to get experience for the young guys and tank for ping pong balls.