Bench depth if healthy

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Before I move on to who I would like to see coming off the bench, I'm going to agree with bayou that our benchcould be loaded this season ( I hate that we always have to put the "if healthy" disclaimer in there, but it's a fact of life for a T-Wolves fan).

I agree that Martin is a far superior player to LaVine at this stage of their careers, but I liked Zach at the end of last season and would like him to start at the 2. He has to be considered the future right now at SG and has potential to be a huge upgrade defensively over Martin. Plus it puts Martin in a role that I think is best suited for him in his early 30s...prolific scorer off the bench, playing about 20 minutes a night.

I'm also in the minority here that I want the starting bigs to be a healthy Pek and KG. The Wolves were effective last year when KG started, and I like our prized rookie being able to watch the flow of the game before getting subbed in for KG at about the 6-7 minute mark. He can then move over at the end of the quarter and give Pek a blow at center. This really gives Flip a lot of rotation flexibility. I know many of you are going to say there's no way Pek starts over Towns. But just remember how effective Pek can be...easily a threat to put up 20-12 every night. Pek is going to make $12.1 million next year, and if he's healthy, I think Flip is going to make him earn it.

That's my dream scenario, and it gives us a second unit that can really dominate anchored by Towns, Martin and Shabazz. Pair them with a defensive pass-first PG, and we really have something going.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Milt Newton already confirmed my thoughts about our No. 1 pick starting yesterday on NBA Network. Said that player's supposed to be a huge piece to the team's foundation and will be put in an important role (starting) very early. You don't put a potential franchise player on the back burner because you want Pekovic and Garnett to start. First, that'd be ludicrous. Secondly, that even goes against your own strategy, LST. How are you going to start LaVine at SG, but not the No. 1 pick?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Martin will probably start. LaVine should get plenty of minutes, but Martin is very likely going to be the starter.

I hope not. That would mean that Zach hasn't progressed enough. He should be able to beat out Martin.

Really, Cool?

20 PPG, 16.7 PER, 39% from 3, 4.9 FTAs

10 PPG, 11.3 PER, 34% from 3, 2.3 FTAs

It's almost like one was a 19 year old rookie and the other a 30+ year old vet.

Lavine as a starter as a 19 year old rookie:

13.8/5.1/4/1 on 42.5/35.2/84.1 splits (3.2 FTA's).

Given the ball handling and athletic upgrade he is over Martin how much does he really have to improve to surpass Martin? I think he just has to have a decent off season of tightening up his game to make the jump over Martin.

Why the sarcasm? (see your first line) I fully acknowledged that LaVine is a lot younger, which is why I think we should give him more time before expecting him to surpass Martin.

How many points does LaVine's athleticism get us (that aren't measured in the stats we're talking about)? ;) Is a cool LaVine dunk worth more points than a predictable Martin jump shot? I love the dunking, don't get me wrong. But let's base a decision on the stats that help us win, not who looks cooler. In my mind, there is a big between an 11.3 PER and a 16.7, and 10 PPG and 20. But of course, I sincerely hope LaVine's stats improve a great deal this year and he makes the leap. I'm not ready to assume that's going to happen, but I'm definitely crossing my fingers.

Side note: There's a strange sort of "ageism" among rebuilding teams these days, and I think suggesting LaVine only needing to tighten up his game a little to become better than Martin is symptomatic of this.

What do you think about my three points above?

The sarcasm was due to you essentially using their statistical comparison to imply it's not a particularly close call at this point when Lavine really showed improvement in the last two months of the year. Lavine's numbers were brought down by the fact that he was downright horrible for the first half of the season. I just don't like the direction Martin's game is heading on our young team. He took the most shots per game of his career last year and the other time he shot close to 16 times a game, he scored 24+ PPG that year in Sacramento.

If you boil the scoring down, when Lavine was taking 16.8 shots per game last April he scored over 21 PPG. So with similar volume he was only slightly less efficient and putting up the same scoring stats. Lavine also gets more assists and more rebounds so he is contributing more than just scoring and 3 pt shooting on the court. His athleticism plays a role because it lets him contribute better in areas like rebounding, getting to the rim (which opens up his opportunities for assists and eventually scoring) and on the defensive end.

Martin's value was always in scoring 20+ a game on less shots because he got to the line. As he is getting older he isn't getting to the rim as much and taking more shots as a result thus lowering his efficiency levels. I think more all-around play benefits winning more than 2 categories. If Lavine shows up to camp as the same guy or better than how he finished last year I think he should start because it will be more impactful than just scoring and slightly better efficiency.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Milt Newton already confirmed my thoughts about our No. 1 pick starting yesterday on NBA Network. Said that player's supposed to be a huge piece to the team's foundation and will be put in an important role (starting) very early. You don't put a potential franchise player on the back burner because you want Pekovic and Garnett to start. First, that'd be ludicrous. Secondly, that even goes against your own strategy, LST. How are you going to start LaVine at SG, but not the No. 1 pick?

Yeah, I heard Milt too...but I thought I heard "important role", not starting. Seemed like Milt was being very careful with his words. My ideal scenario does have Towns in an important role...28-30 minutes off the bench at both PF and C.

I admit to some inconsistency in starting Zach, but not KAT, but there is a big difference between a second year player and a rookie, especially a second year player who was forced to play big minutes his rookie year. Zach showed me in the last 20 games last year that he is a viable option to start at SG.

I don't think there is any way that Flip starts both Zach and Karl...that's inconsistent with his stated preference to pair vets with inexperienced players. I don't see Flip being comfortable with a starting lineup with three guys under or barely over 20...he saw too much of that last year. So it could be that Towns starts at center, and Martin continues to start at SG, but I would prefer my rotation.

Now, if Pek is injured to begin the season, my preference would be to start Towns at C rather than Dieng. But I'm keeping my rose-colored glasses on with respect to Pek's surgery.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

There's going to be a lot of young guys playing. There's no way around that on our team. Wiggins, Towns, Lavine, Bazz, Payne, Dieng and maybe Bennett, Bjelica or a rookie PG. I think it would be best to start Ricky, Lavine, Wiggins, KG, Towns with backup PG, Martin, Bazz, Payne/Bennett, Pek off the bench. That way the two most influential vets play with the 3 most needing influence young players and the second unit has some solid vets to go to.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Rubio, Martin, Wiggins and Towns can be penciled into the starting lineup right now (assuming we stay true to all reports and draft Towns). Those four guys will be there and I'd bet big money on it.

If Pek actually is healthy, then he'd be my fifth starter over Garnett. A healthy Pek is a really productive Pek and I've stated many times I believe Towns could play next to him.

If Pek's not healthy, then you look at Garnett as being the guy to start, although he obvously wouldn't play starter minutes.

We saw it last year with Wiggins. We'll see it this year with Towns. No. 1 picks are given the chance to start from day one (unless you're Anthony Bennett).

[Carlos Danger]

Rubio, Martin, Wiggins and Towns can be penciled into the starting lineup right now (assuming we stay true to all reports and draft Towns). Those four guys will be there and I'd bet big money on it.

If Pek actually is healthy, then he'd be my fifth starter over Garnett. A healthy Pek is a really productive Pek and I've stated many times I believe Towns could play next to him.

If Pek's not healthy, then you look at Garnett as being the guy to start, although he obvously wouldn't play starter minutes.

We saw it last year with Wiggins. We'll see it this year with Towns. No. 1 picks are given the chance to start from day one (unless you're Anthony Bennett).

I think you are spot on with the exception of the if Pek isn't healthy part. I can't see KG being a starter at this point. I'm guessing obviously since none of us know but Flip. But my gut says KG is small but effective minutes guy off the bench all year.

[Coolbreeze44]

Martin is so overrated on this board it's a travesty. I'm comforted to know that if by some disappointing reason he is still the starter on opening day, he will get hurt soon enough and then Zach will get his chance. I highly doubt he loses the gig once he gets it.

[Porckchop]

I like Martin a lot more as a bench option than as a starting option . He can score in bunches but does Lil else . He seems to make bone headed plays in crunch time and shrinks in the big moments . He's never shown himself to be a winning player. What he can give u are those nights where he can carry u for a quarter when the offense stalls Ala Jamaal Craward. He's more valuable to this team at 15-20 mins than he is at 30-35 mind

[Coolbreeze44]

I like Martin a lot more as a bench option than as a starting option . He can score in bunches but does Lil else . He seems to make bone headed plays in crunch time and shrinks in the big moments . He's never shown himself to be a winning player. What he can give u are those nights where he can carry u for a quarter when the offense stalls Ala Jamaal Craward. He's more valuable to this team at 15-20 mins than he is at 30-35 mind

It's like I was typing this. Spot on PC