Who Will Flip Take

[60WinTim]

I take this as another vote for Flip picking Towns...

http://www.kfan.com/onair/wolves-blog-46015/qa-with-rod-strickland-karl-towns-13679365

[thedoper]

I think people are getting caught up in the snowball effect. While Towns has more versatility to his game, he hasn't really proven anything. Not working out for teams is a red flag in my eyes. His dominating defense is somehow improving while not even playing I guess. WCS looked like the dominant defender to me. I realize that Towns will be a better shotblocker than Okafor, but is there really that much more to his defensive game? Being more athletic doesn't necessarily translate to being a better defender.

When I watch some of these shooting videos, the first thing that jumps out is how many of those shots would be rejected. The guys aren't getting any lift on the shot whatsoever. That is why I put no stock in the results.

I think I will be just fine with Okafor. I know he has the IT factor in his game, whereas I am unsure about that with Towns. The difference between Pek and Okafor is that Okafor is very skilled at getting his shot off down low. Pek has always relied on others to get him freed up. Okafor moves very well, but I like that his game isn't built only on athleticism. Less chance of it being hamstrung by injuries.

Most of all, I look at who it was standing holding a trophy at the end of it all. That was Okafor, not Towns. That has to count for something. I think we will be fine with either, but I don't see the huge disparity like others.

Couldn't agree more. A lot of hype being generated from a guy shooting in a gym. Okafor just looks like much more natural of a basketball player in real game situations from what I've seen.

[GymRat [enjin:6592663]]

I think people are getting caught up in the snowball effect. While Towns has more versatility to his game, he hasn't really proven anything. Not working out for teams is a red flag in my eyes. His dominating defense is somehow improving while not even playing I guess. WCS looked like the dominant defender to me. I realize that Towns will be a better shotblocker than Okafor, but is there really that much more to his defensive game? Being more athletic doesn't necessarily translate to being a better defender.

When I watch some of these shooting videos, the first thing that jumps out is how many of those shots would be rejected. The guys aren't getting any lift on the shot whatsoever. That is why I put no stock in the results.

I think I will be just fine with Okafor. I know he has the IT factor in his game, whereas I am unsure about that with Towns. The difference between Pek and Okafor is that Okafor is very skilled at getting his shot off down low. Pek has always relied on others to get him freed up. Okafor moves very well, but I like that his game isn't built only on athleticism. Less chance of it being hamstrung by injuries.

Most of all, I look at who it was standing holding a trophy at the end of it all. That was Okafor, not Towns. That has to count for something. I think we will be fine with either, but I don't see the huge disparity like others.

Couldn't agree more. A lot of hype being generated from a guy shooting in a gym. Okafor just looks like much more natural of a basketball player in real game situations from what I've seen.

I originally wrote up a fairly long reply to these two posts, but I thought in order to better understand both of your thoughts and feelings on Okafor vs. Towns, I should ask these questions instead.

1) Going into the draft last year, would you have selected Parker or Wiggins?
2) At the end of the season, would you have selected Parker or Wiggins?

(Note: Yes, I do realize Parker is hard to judge at this point because of his injury, but I hope you can at least try to speculate.)

I ask because I feel like there are a lot of similarities between the two sets of guys despite playing different positions, and I would have chosen Wiggins to answer both questions above.

[thedoper]

I think people are getting caught up in the snowball effect. While Towns has more versatility to his game, he hasn't really proven anything. Not working out for teams is a red flag in my eyes. His dominating defense is somehow improving while not even playing I guess. WCS looked like the dominant defender to me. I realize that Towns will be a better shotblocker than Okafor, but is there really that much more to his defensive game? Being more athletic doesn't necessarily translate to being a better defender.

When I watch some of these shooting videos, the first thing that jumps out is how many of those shots would be rejected. The guys aren't getting any lift on the shot whatsoever. That is why I put no stock in the results.

I think I will be just fine with Okafor. I know he has the IT factor in his game, whereas I am unsure about that with Towns. The difference between Pek and Okafor is that Okafor is very skilled at getting his shot off down low. Pek has always relied on others to get him freed up. Okafor moves very well, but I like that his game isn't built only on athleticism. Less chance of it being hamstrung by injuries.

Most of all, I look at who it was standing holding a trophy at the end of it all. That was Okafor, not Towns. That has to count for something. I think we will be fine with either, but I don't see the huge disparity like others.

Couldn't agree more. A lot of hype being generated from a guy shooting in a gym. Okafor just looks like much more natural of a basketball player in real game situations from what I've seen.

I originally wrote up a fairly long reply to these two posts, but I thought in order to better understand both of your thoughts and feelings on Okafor vs. Towns, I should ask these questions instead.

1) Going into the draft last year, would you have selected Parker or Wiggins?
2) At the end of the season, would you have selected Parker or Wiggins?

(Note: Yes, I do realize Parker is hard to judge at this point because of his injury, but I hope you can at least try to speculate.)

I ask because I feel like there are a lot of similarities between the two sets of guys despite playing different positions, and I would have chosen Wiggins to answer both questions above.

I said Wiggins over and over last year at both points. Wiggins got a lot of PT in his freshman season and his skill and athleticism was overwhelmingly obvious to me. I don't see the giant gap in differences in athleticism that most people see from the game film of the two bigs this year. And I think that Okafor's offensive footwork is an anomaly that shouldn't be overlooked and because of it has a better basketball foundation for improvement in all parts of his game, since great footwork like his is usually the last thing a big is able to acquire.

[Monster]

I take this as another vote for Flip picking Towns...

http://www.kfan.com/onair/wolves-blog-46015/qa-with-rod-strickland-karl-towns-13679365

Thanks Tim for that post on the interview with Rod Strickland. Man that guy could play and just another talented PG that played for the Wolves I had forgotten about there are so many its crazy.

[GymRat [enjin:6592663]]

I agree his footwork in a phone booth is excellent, but if his lateral movement is currently a negative, is the net effect still positive? A guy with footwork like his can learn to apply the same principles to other areas on the floor, and he will be able to make up for some athleticism deficiencies on the defensive end by learning to not waste motions or steps, but I don't think it will be to the degree necessary for a top-notch defense.

I disagree though about the gap in athleticism. I don't ever see Okafor doing the things Towns can in his most recent DX video, but it doesn't mean that it will translate to the NBA level to the same degree. None of their skills are easily translatable. I just feel like looking at the two players Towns is more well-rounded and his athleticism tips the scales.

[thedoper]

I agree his footwork in a phone booth is excellent, but if his lateral movement is currently a negative, is the net effect still positive? A guy with footwork like his can learn to apply the same principles to other areas on the floor, and he will be able to make up for some athleticism deficiencies on the defensive end by learning to not waste motions or steps, but I don't think it will be to the degree necessary for a top-notch defense.

I disagree though about the gap in athleticism. I don't ever see Okafor doing the things Towns can in his most recent DX video, but it doesn't mean that it will translate to the NBA level to the same degree. None of their skills are easily translatable. I just feel like looking at the two players Towns is more well-rounded and his athleticism tips the scales.

I never saw Towns do the things Okafor can do in game footage. I will always be hesitant of a video of a solo workout tipping the scales for me. I am sure there is video of rubio hitting 20 jumpers in a row somewhere. These things are sales pitches. Ultimately this is a great debate and will be settled 5-10 years from know if they both stay healthy. I go Okafor and know I am in the minority, but the reasons for leaning that way are far from crazy and based on a larger data set based on his playing time and feature as the central big on his team.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I agree his footwork in a phone booth is excellent, but if his lateral movement is currently a negative, is the net effect still positive? A guy with footwork like his can learn to apply the same principles to other areas on the floor, and he will be able to make up for some athleticism deficiencies on the defensive end by learning to not waste motions or steps, but I don't think it will be to the degree necessary for a top-notch defense.

I disagree though about the gap in athleticism. I don't ever see Okafor doing the things Towns can in his most recent DX video, but it doesn't mean that it will translate to the NBA level to the same degree. None of their skills are easily translatable. I just feel like looking at the two players Towns is more well-rounded and his athleticism tips the scales.

I never saw Towns do the things Okafor can do in game footage. I will always be hesitant of a video of a solo workout tipping the scales for me. I am sure there is video of rubio hitting 20 jumpers in a row somewhere. These things are sales pitches. Ultimately this is a great debate and will be settled 5-10 years from know if they both stay healthy. I go Okafor and know I am in the minority, but the reasons for leaning that way are far from crazy and based on a larger data set based on his playing time and feature as the central big on his team.

Your take isn't completely unreasonable and I think the gap between the two might be a tad exaggerated by some of us and other draft wonks.

That being said, Okafor had another top 5 talent playing next to him in Winslow. That guy was probably one of the best cleanup/utility/do-it-all forwards in the country. And Tyus Jones is twice the PG of the Harrison brothers. So while Okafor was certainly featured and carried a heavier load offensively than Towns, he also had a ton of help.

I hang my hat on the per minute production, because while Towns didn't play as much as Okafor or get featured as much offensively, he still had to go out there and compete for solid stretches of ball. And in almost every category, he was the more productive player.

[Monster]

There isn't much new to discuss but my main reason to think Towns has plenty of upside on the offensive end of the floor was proved over a whole season shooting over 81% from the FT line as a freshman true center that is projected to be a good defensive player. That's really impressive.

[mjs34]

I originally wrote up a fairly long reply to these two posts, but I thought in order to better understand both of your thoughts and feelings on Okafor vs. Towns, I should ask these questions instead.

1) Going into the draft last year, would you have selected Parker or Wiggins?
2) At the end of the season, would you have selected Parker or Wiggins?

(Note: Yes, I do realize Parker is hard to judge at this point because of his injury, but I hope you can at least try to speculate.)

I ask because I feel like there are a lot of similarities between the two sets of guys despite playing different positions, and I would have chosen Wiggins to answer both questions above.

I like where you are going with this, and it might bring a lot more clarity to the discusssion. I was a wiggins fan over parker, and surprisingly I believe Cam was really high on Parker. Funny how we went opposite directions with the wings.

My biggest fear with Okafor is his FT shooting, but playing good PnR is something that can be taught. For all the touting on Towns D, he doesn't seem to be much playing man to man down low, and that is something that Okafor has the base to do well. I also think you can turn any player into a passable defender in one season, whereas becoming a dominant scorer takes several years if ever.