thedoper wrote:In principle I think roles are far from being defined on this team. Let the young core grow together before tweaking. Bazz's skill has been replaced to try and get Martin some run. Let's see what happens once he is moved before saying anything absolute about a 9 or 10 seed. Bazz will still be quite movable moving forward, there is no downside to keeping him around. We can acquire a 3 and D guy without trading Bazz in free agency when we are actually competitive.
So Bazz is struggling as the 4th wing, but lets hold on to him, see if he can be the 3rd wing and then move him back to 4th again with an off-season move? Bazz is the most selfish basketball player I've ever seen and I don't think more playing time fixes that. I think it makes it worse because he's like a fish needing water in relation to him needing to shoot when he gets the ball. That fact hasn't changed since he entered the league and it's his 3rd year. He's no better than Nick Young right now. If other teams value him as more than that then I would jump on the chance for the right guy.
I get what you are saying but I will say that Bazz when he is rolling gives you more than Young does. Young is a hot and cold shot maker/brick layer that's generally indifferent about doing anything else. Bazz hustles his butt off and can be a difference maker on the offensive glass. I'll admit I like Bazz and that Nick Young is a guy I don't like because he literally is only good for scoring and thinks he is something amazing and we can both agree he isn't...well except those few stretches when he kinda is but then there is the rest of the time. Lol He is sort of a JR Smith type only I think JR Smith is actually a better player because his good is better than Young. Both are guys that can help you scoring the ball and can win you a game here and there when they are hot.
Like others have said lets see how things play out. We don't know for sure what this team really needs to shore up. Trade away Bazz and Martin leaves and suddenly you have nothing when it comes to wings beyond Wiggins and Lavine. That would open up spots though which is part of what Kahn's is getting at. Lavine or Bazz as 6th man types could be pretty damn sweet. A 3 and D wing would be great but those types of guys are ones you can find off the trash bin of the league at times although I obviously would t be against investing more heavilily in one than taking a chance on finding the next Danny Green, Bruce Bowen etc type.
As a major Bazz fan around here, I want him traded. Not because of how he's played, not because I've soured on him (I haven't), but because I've given up on this team utilizing him correctly. The WHOLE LEAGUE knows there's something there with this guy and thinks they can use him better than we can, but Sam is too stubborn. It's one of the reasons why I HATED the Prince signing. When he plays well, he doesn't get rewarded, he gets yanked for mistakes everyone else on this team makes (including Wiggins), and creatively, Sam does a piss poor job with lineups. It's like the Adelman hockey subs all over again.
So I want Bazz dealt because I know he'd be better off somewhere else. For whatever reason, this team cannot find a meaningful consistent role for the hardest working person on this team. When that kind of work goes unrewarded due to Sam playing favorites (he's gonna live and die with Zach at the point; If I were Ricky I'd rent), what's the point?
WildWolf2813 wrote:As a major Bazz fan around here, I want him traded. Not because of how he's played, not because I've soured on him (I haven't), but because I've given up on this team utilizing him correctly. The WHOLE LEAGUE knows there's something there with this guy and thinks they can use him better than we can, but Sam is too stubborn. It's one of the reasons why I HATED the Prince signing. When he plays well, he doesn't get rewarded, he gets yanked for mistakes everyone else on this team makes (including Wiggins), and creatively, Sam does a piss poor job with lineups. It's like the Adelman hockey subs all over again.
So I want Bazz dealt because I know he'd be better off somewhere else. For whatever reason, this team cannot find a meaningful consistent role for the hardest working person on this team. When that kind of work goes unrewarded due to Sam playing favorites (he's gonna live and die with Zach at the point; If I were Ricky I'd rent), what's the point?
I think he has a meaningful and consistent role. He's played in every single game this year and provides energy and scoring off the bench. He's also one of the worst defenders on the team and gets tunnel vision when he has the ball. I'm not sure how playing 30 MPG vs. 17 MPG resolves those issues. I'm sure if he defended better, he'd get more minutes.
WildWolf2813 wrote:As a major Bazz fan around here, I want him traded. Not because of how he's played, not because I've soured on him (I haven't), but because I've given up on this team utilizing him correctly. The WHOLE LEAGUE knows there's something there with this guy and thinks they can use him better than we can, but Sam is too stubborn. It's one of the reasons why I HATED the Prince signing. When he plays well, he doesn't get rewarded, he gets yanked for mistakes everyone else on this team makes (including Wiggins), and creatively, Sam does a piss poor job with lineups. It's like the Adelman hockey subs all over again.
So I want Bazz dealt because I know he'd be better off somewhere else. For whatever reason, this team cannot find a meaningful consistent role for the hardest working person on this team. When that kind of work goes unrewarded due to Sam playing favorites (he's gonna live and die with Zach at the point; If I were Ricky I'd rent), what's the point?
I think he has a meaningful and consistent role. He's played in every single game this year and provides energy and scoring off the bench. He's also one of the worst defenders on the team and gets tunnel vision when he has the ball. I'm not sure how playing 30 MPG vs. 17 MPG resolves those issues. I'm sure if he defended better, he'd get more minutes.
Exactly, q. Sam knows what a prolific scorer Bazz is, and I'm sure he would love it if Bazz would earn the right to get 25-30 MPG. But he is still a work in process on the defensive end, and Sam and the coaching staff are working hard to help him in that area...and we see signs of improvement. I'm not giving up on Bazz becoming an average defender, especially with his relentless effort. But even if he remains a below average defender, his volume scoring makes him a valuable piece going forward that we need to keep. And he keeps getting better on offense (How about the sweet right-handed hook he developed over the off-season...I never would have predicted he could have brought that into his game). We need to keep him, and continue to develop his defense.
WildWolf2813 wrote:As a major Bazz fan around here, I want him traded. Not because of how he's played, not because I've soured on him (I haven't), but because I've given up on this team utilizing him correctly. The WHOLE LEAGUE knows there's something there with this guy and thinks they can use him better than we can, but Sam is too stubborn. It's one of the reasons why I HATED the Prince signing. When he plays well, he doesn't get rewarded, he gets yanked for mistakes everyone else on this team makes (including Wiggins), and creatively, Sam does a piss poor job with lineups. It's like the Adelman hockey subs all over again.
So I want Bazz dealt because I know he'd be better off somewhere else. For whatever reason, this team cannot find a meaningful consistent role for the hardest working person on this team. When that kind of work goes unrewarded due to Sam playing favorites (he's gonna live and die with Zach at the point; If I were Ricky I'd rent), what's the point?
I think he has a meaningful and consistent role. He's played in every single game this year and provides energy and scoring off the bench. He's also one of the worst defenders on the team and gets tunnel vision when he has the ball. I'm not sure how playing 30 MPG vs. 17 MPG resolves those issues. I'm sure if he defended better, he'd get more minutes.
Correct. That - and the fact that he plays the same position as Wiggins who rarely comes off the floor. If Bazz played more minutes, people would be complaining that Wiggins/LaVine are not getting enough minutes.
There is no need to deal Bazz IMO. Let this play out. Next year could be new Coach and New GM. In the mean time, there will be injuries and possibly trades of guys like Martin.
I think Bazz is Sam's kind of guy...a consistently hard worker who leaves it all on the court every night. But it's also clear that he thinks Bazz can do certain things better, and yanks him out occasionally as a teaching tool. But Sam does try to find different ways to use Bazz effectively. Last night against a wing-heavy Nuggets team, Sam played Bazz a lot at PF. In the previous 3 games against taller lineups he was playing Bazz a lot at SG. I think Sam knows Bazz is primarily a SF, but recognizes his skill set is unique, and that he can plug him into different roles depending on match ups.
WildWolf2813 wrote:As a major Bazz fan around here, I want him traded. Not because of how he's played, not because I've soured on him (I haven't), but because I've given up on this team utilizing him correctly. The WHOLE LEAGUE knows there's something there with this guy and thinks they can use him better than we can, but Sam is too stubborn. It's one of the reasons why I HATED the Prince signing. When he plays well, he doesn't get rewarded, he gets yanked for mistakes everyone else on this team makes (including Wiggins), and creatively, Sam does a piss poor job with lineups. It's like the Adelman hockey subs all over again.
So I want Bazz dealt because I know he'd be better off somewhere else. For whatever reason, this team cannot find a meaningful consistent role for the hardest working person on this team. When that kind of work goes unrewarded due to Sam playing favorites (he's gonna live and die with Zach at the point; If I were Ricky I'd rent), what's the point?
Bazz does not play within the flow of the offense. Could you imagine him playing for the Spurs? It would never happen. I just don't think Bazz's game can translate to getting 30 minutes a night. He can't pass dribble or play defense. The longer minutes he plays, the more that gets exposed
WildWolf2813 wrote:As a major Bazz fan around here, I want him traded. Not because of how he's played, not because I've soured on him (I haven't), but because I've given up on this team utilizing him correctly. The WHOLE LEAGUE knows there's something there with this guy and thinks they can use him better than we can, but Sam is too stubborn. It's one of the reasons why I HATED the Prince signing. When he plays well, he doesn't get rewarded, he gets yanked for mistakes everyone else on this team makes (including Wiggins), and creatively, Sam does a piss poor job with lineups. It's like the Adelman hockey subs all over again.
So I want Bazz dealt because I know he'd be better off somewhere else. For whatever reason, this team cannot find a meaningful consistent role for the hardest working person on this team. When that kind of work goes unrewarded due to Sam playing favorites (he's gonna live and die with Zach at the point; If I were Ricky I'd rent), what's the point?
Bazz does not play within the flow of the offense. Could you imagine him playing for the Spurs? It would never happen. I just don't think Bazz's game can translate to getting 30 minutes a night. He can't pass dribble or play defense. The longer minutes he plays, the more that gets exposed
If the offense sucks why play in the flow of it? Just this week against the Clippers he had a major game and was largely responsible for why we had a lead. Instead of riding the hot hand, we yank him for Wiggins who had a crappy night and we lose in OT.
as for not being able to pass, dribble or play D, Wiggins sucks at 2 of those things yet I don't see him yanked for teaching moments. Rarely does Zach get yanked for looking at the ball while ignoring his man. When Tayshaun gets cooked by the opposition I don't see him get pulled for Bazz. The team in general sucks on D. Why have Bazz bear the brunt of that?
WildWolf2813 wrote:As a major Bazz fan around here, I want him traded. Not because of how he's played, not because I've soured on him (I haven't), but because I've given up on this team utilizing him correctly. The WHOLE LEAGUE knows there's something there with this guy and thinks they can use him better than we can, but Sam is too stubborn. It's one of the reasons why I HATED the Prince signing. When he plays well, he doesn't get rewarded, he gets yanked for mistakes everyone else on this team makes (including Wiggins), and creatively, Sam does a piss poor job with lineups. It's like the Adelman hockey subs all over again.
So I want Bazz dealt because I know he'd be better off somewhere else. For whatever reason, this team cannot find a meaningful consistent role for the hardest working person on this team. When that kind of work goes unrewarded due to Sam playing favorites (he's gonna live and die with Zach at the point; If I were Ricky I'd rent), what's the point?
Bazz does not play within the flow of the offense. Could you imagine him playing for the Spurs? It would never happen. I just don't think Bazz's game can translate to getting 30 minutes a night. He can't pass dribble or play defense. The longer minutes he plays, the more that gets exposed
If the offense sucks why play in the flow of it? Just this week against the Clippers he had a major game and was largely responsible for why we had a lead. Instead of riding the hot hand, we yank him for Wiggins who had a crappy night and we lose in OT.
as for not being able to pass, dribble or play D, Wiggins sucks at 2 of those things yet I don't see him yanked for teaching moments. Rarely does Zach get yanked for looking at the ball while ignoring his man. When Tayshaun gets cooked by the opposition I don't see him get pulled for Bazz. The team in general sucks on D. Why have Bazz bear the brunt of that?
I know that it's the nature of this and other message boards to be critical, but where does this opinion that "the offense sucks" come from? (I'm not just pointing at you wildwolf...it seems to be the prevailing opinion here). We currently rank 9th as a team in NBA scoring and 12th in FG%. We also have learned that our offense is fifth best in the league in scoring after a timeout. That sounds pretty good to me, and far from sucking. I would agree that our offense isn't always as pretty as some others, and relies more on individual performance and getting to the free throw line than ball movement and open three pointers. But it has been pretty successful so far this year. And I am on balance with Shabazz's contribution to our offense. He is what he is. He's not going to be a participant in a beautiful ball-movement offense, but he will get you several gritty baskets most games and score more points per minutes than 90% of the league. That's why we keep him.
