PorkChop wrote:Wiggins is in his second year and people are willing to say he will never be this never be that. This all goes back to my frustration with Ricky. His second year people say he could be this could be that. And he still isn't but it seems their still more content with Ricky than Wiggins at this point. What gives! Why do some players get more rope. If your just bias to player just say it otherwise be consistent
baffles me as well
I don't understand how you guys can't see that Rubio is so so close to being Jason Kidd... or even better.
WildWolf2813 wrote:I'm not even sugar coat it: Wiggins is never gonna be a great player as long as his stat line continues to be empty other than scoring.
That is until he puts up 30 the next game and people put him back into the future top 5 players
I generally find Wiggins' overall game hard to watch. Some of it is bad habits he's been taught along the way up to now, but the comparisons he gets are laughable until his game reflects guys like Kobe, like T-Mac, like Paul George. It's hard to assume it'll just appear when nothing has given any of us the idea that it will.
So far, compared to his rookie year he has shot worse from the field, from 3, from the line, rebounds less, passes less, and still freezes up in late game situations, yet because his scoring has gone up the whole league thinks he's on the verge of turning into the next big thing. If anything, Wiggins is a reminder that this team still does a God awful job of developing players.
PorkChop wrote:Wiggins is in his second year and people are willing to say he will never be this never be that. This all goes back to my frustration with Ricky. His second year people say he could be this could be that. And he still isn't but it seems their still more content with Ricky than Wiggins at this point. What gives! Why do some players get more rope. If your just bias to player just say it otherwise be consistent
baffles me as well
I'll just speak for myself. I've never said Wiggins won't be good or even great. And I've never said Ricky would be great because I've never been convinced he'd improve his shooting enough. In the meantime, Ricky is more of a net positive for the team than Wiggins. But that doesn't mean I think Ricky is great -- he's not - or that he will be great - he won't. At least I still think Wiggins might be great.
Come on Lip, you've been carrying Ricky torch from day one and have never had harsh criticism for him. Yet your always quick to point out Wiggins faults early into his second year I never threw out words like "great"
Pork - You seem a bit crazed when it comes to your Rubio obsession, Yes, I've been a big fan of Ricky since he arrived. He does everything very well except shoot. But he'll never be great unless he can at least get his shooting to Jason Kidd level. I don't think he will. Is that harsh enough for you?
I'm not crazed, just frustrated by fans bias for a player and how much leeway he gets compared to other younger players. Like Wiggins and Shabazz . I think it's a fair frustration especially since said player is just an average player. I get a lot of flak but I don't hate on him anymore than you guys champion for him..
The only thing worse than a guy that can't shoot is having a guy that won't shoot when wide open. How easy does that have to be for the defense. You guys marginalize this whole shooting thing It affects everything that can be done on the offensive side of the ball.
I'm ashamed to read the last couple pages of this thread. Who has been more clutch for the Wolves this year than Wiggins? So he missed a shot at the end of the game, big fucking deal. For most of the season, he has been our go to player in 4th quarters, and more often than not he's responded. Some of you guys flip flop on him from game to game. He's easily the guy you want taking the big shots on our team, at least right now. How many times tonight did he get to the line when we really needed points?
I don't know if he will ever become a Kobe Bryant. His handle is better but still needs work. He doesn't fill the stat sheet the way you think he should, at least not yet. He doesn't come up with many loose balls. But anybody that can score and defend like he can at the age of 20 has a chance to be great. i'm so fucking tired of reading this bullshit, that you have his career all figured out at this point. There are 29 teams in this league that would love to have the problem of a developing Wiggins. Some of you fans don't deserve a talent like Wiggins. The pissing and moaning is ridiculous.
I love Shabazz. What I like is that he gives all-out effort all the time. If there's a chance for a rebound he gets it. If there's a loose ball, he gets after it. He doesn't smile constantly on the court or joke around on the bench. Those are the same characteristics that I've always liked in Ricky. Wiggins frustrates me because he's far more physically gifted than Ricky or Bazz, but doesn't seem to possess those other qualities that, as a fan, I appreciate so much in Ricky and Bazz. I see those same qualities in Dieng. And I see them in Towns, who also has elite talent like Wiggins.
So I admit to giving more rope to Ricky than Wiggins, but Thats because I expect more from Wiggins given his incredible physical talent. And I also give more leeway to Bazz and others based on the way they play the game.
Once again Bazz should have got more playing time. Wake the hell up Sam this young player is part of the teams future and needs to develop! If he's playing well why does he sit?
LaVine needs to stop looking over at the coaching staff all the damn time and just play basketball. Be aggressive, half the league probably couldn't handle you when you have a full head of steam so push the defense aggressively. You play best when being the aggressor, its really that simple.
Martin playing 41 minutes worth of defense and shooting 20 shots....that's a big time problem for this team long term. You can figure out who to blame for that one!
Ricky needs to stop flopping all over the place and acting like marginal contact in one on one is knocking him all around. He draws the offensive foul from time to time but more often then not he is off balance, fake falling, or flopping his way to being out of position on defense. The audacity to complain to the refs after fake falling / flopping is an insult to the refs intelligence. On a good note Ricky was actually a threat tonight and hit some shots, I'd like to see a hell of a lot more of that!
I love Shabazz. What I like is that he gives all-out effort all the time. If there's a chance for a rebound he gets it. If there's a loose ball, he gets after it. He doesn't smile constantly on the court or joke around on the bench. Those are the same characteristics that I've always liked in Ricky. Wiggins frustrates me because he's far more physically gifted than Ricky or Bazz, but doesn't seem to possess those other qualities that, as a fan, I appreciate so much in Ricky and Bazz. I see those same qualities in Dieng. And I see them in Towns, who also has elite talent like Wiggins.
So I admit to giving more rope to Ricky than Wiggins, but Thats because I expect more from Wiggins given his incredible physical talent. And I also give more leeway to Bazz and others based on the way they play the game.
I think that is very well said, lip. I'm the same way with respect to the three guys we're discussing. I definitely give less rope to Wig because I have such high expectations for him. I think he has the potential to be a top 50 all time player, while Rubio's and Bazz's ceiling is considerably lower. That's why I think it's fair to be more critical of Wig, because his vastly superior physical gifts give him such a head start over the other guys. Rubio and Bazz frustrate me sometimes, but I never feel that they are giving less than they have, and that's why I give them more rope. But let's be clear here...they should never be in the same conversation with Wig in terms of potential.
[quote=@12548325]Once again Bazz should have got more playing time. Wake the hell up Sam this young player is part of the teams future and needs to develop! If he's playing well why does he sit?
LaVine needs to stop looking over at the coaching staff all the damn time and just play basketball. Be aggressive, half the league probably couldn't handle you when you have a full head of steam so push the defense aggressively. You play best when being the aggressor, its really that simple.
Martin playing 41 minutes worth of defense and shooting 20 shots....that's a big time problem for this team long term. You can figure out who to blame for that one!
Ricky needs to stop flopping all over the place and acting like marginal contact in one on one is knocking him all around. He draws the offensive foul from time to time but more often then not he is off balance, fake falling, or flopping his way to being out of position on defense. The audacity to complain to the refs after fake falling / flopping is an insult to the refs intelligence. On a good note Ricky was actually a threat tonight and hit some shots, I'd like to see a hell of a lot more of that!
I think most of want more minutes for Bazz, TU...he's an incredible volume scorer when he is on, and fun to watch because of his relentless effort. But I think your last two sentences are contradictory. Yes, Bazz is a big part of this team's future, and needs to develop. But good coaches use sitting a player as a teaching tool, and Bazz needs it more than anyone else on the team with the possible exception of Zach. Sam is taking the long view here, and focusing on development rather than the moment. Last night Bazz was one of the reasons Denver made that big third quarter run last night because of his sloppy defense against screens (he wasn't alone, of course). Sam was screaming on the sidelines to his defense to go over screens rather than under, and moments after Prince had done so in a textbook fashion, Bazz defended a screen in a fashion we became accustomed to last season...ducking underneath it. If Sam hadn't yanked him, he wouldn't have been doing his job. He did it last game with Zach, and Zach responded with a more mature approach last night. I suspect Bazz will bounce back from his benching with a more focused defensive effort against the Suns.
