alexftbl8181 wrote:
First point, is sample size. For his career Rubio being on the court, the Wolves were still an under .500 team.
Second point is I'm assuming his free throw rate? Because Wiggins shoots a lot more free throws, but also shoots the ball a lot more then Rubio so the percentages are going to be off.
I don't think you can explain the record that easily since we can expand the data to Rubio's entire career:
Games Rubio Played: 94-123 (.433) vs. Games he missed 28-88 (.241). So...that's like an 80% better winning percentage over a 333 games sample. That's not insignificant.
And yes, I was referring to Free Throw Rate. Rubo is at .584 which leads the team - by a WIDE margin. And as noted earlier he's second in the NBA for Point Guards in Free Throw to FGA ratio. He's drawing plenty of fouls so far this year. In fact, he's 3rd on the team in total free throws/attempts even with missing six games.
No offense. But FTR seems like a cherry picked stat du jour especially because the Wolves broadcast discussed it last night. One way to look at a stat like that is to see that he gets fouled at a great rate. ...OR... part of the reason for it might simply be because he shoots less than most other PGs.
What doe sit really mean?
Add it all up and he's shooting fewer than 5 attempts per game. That's not a bad thing. But I wouldn't look at that and say "Holy shitballs... we are winning a lot of games by Rubio's ability to get to the line."
It might make sense for you to read all of my posts regarding this subject before commenting. I didn't cherry pick this one stat to claim "Holy shitballs - we are winning a lot of games because of Rubio". I laid out a several examples to show that guys like you who focus exclusively on FG% for a PG are missing a lot of what determines wins/losses. Such a myopic approach is just poor analysis IMO.
alexftbl8181 wrote:
First point, is sample size. For his career Rubio being on the court, the Wolves were still an under .500 team.
Second point is I'm assuming his free throw rate? Because Wiggins shoots a lot more free throws, but also shoots the ball a lot more then Rubio so the percentages are going to be off.
I don't think you can explain the record that easily since we can expand the data to Rubio's entire career:
Games Rubio Played: 94-123 (.433) vs. Games he missed 28-88 (.241). So...that's like an 80% better winning percentage over a 333 games sample. That's not insignificant.
And yes, I was referring to Free Throw Rate. Rubo is at .584 which leads the team - by a WIDE margin. And as noted earlier he's second in the NBA for Point Guards in Free Throw to FGA ratio. He's drawing plenty of fouls so far this year. In fact, he's 3rd on the team in total free throws/attempts even with missing six games.
Even the games missed isn't just as simple as you make it out to be. A huge chunk of his games missed were last year. Let's just say he was healthy that whole year. Would putting him in there with the lineups they were throwing out really have led to more wins? Everybody was injured, not just Rubio. Guys like Justin Hamilton, Chase Buddinger, and that guy who looked like Pek all played major minutes at points during the season. People forget too the season the Rubio played all 82, they pretty much shit the bed at the end of the year
alexftbl8181 wrote:
First point, is sample size. For his career Rubio being on the court, the Wolves were still an under .500 team.
Second point is I'm assuming his free throw rate? Because Wiggins shoots a lot more free throws, but also shoots the ball a lot more then Rubio so the percentages are going to be off.
I don't think you can explain the record that easily since we can expand the data to Rubio's entire career:
Games Rubio Played: 94-123 (.433) vs. Games he missed 28-88 (.241). So...that's like an 80% better winning percentage over a 333 games sample. That's not insignificant.
And yes, I was referring to Free Throw Rate. Rubo is at .584 which leads the team - by a WIDE margin. And as noted earlier he's second in the NBA for Point Guards in Free Throw to FGA ratio. He's drawing plenty of fouls so far this year. In fact, he's 3rd on the team in total free throws/attempts even with missing six games.
No offense. But FTR seems like a cherry picked stat du jour especially because the Wolves broadcast discussed it last night. One way to look at a stat like that is to see that he gets fouled at a great rate. ...OR... part of the reason for it might simply be because he shoots less than most other PGs.
What doe sit really mean?
Add it all up and he's shooting fewer than 5 attempts per game. That's not a bad thing. But I wouldn't look at that and say "Holy shitballs... we are winning a lot of games by Rubio's ability to get to the line."
It might make sense for you to read all of my posts regarding this subject before commenting. I didn't cherry pick this one stat to claim "Holy shitballs - we are winning a lot of games because of Rubio". I laid out a several examples to show that guys like you who focus exclusively on FG% for a PG are missing a lot of what determines wins/losses. Such a myopic approach is just poor analysis IMO.
Wait. So you misinterpret my post (fair enough if I wrote it poorly), act condescending about me reading your posts in this thread... and then claim that I'm THE guy who focuses exclusively on FG% for a PG even though I've repeatedly championed the merits of Ricky Rubio in this very thread?
Are you fucking serious? C'mon man.
My point is that we're mining pretty deep to find obscure stats (conveniently taken from last night's telecast). How is it myopic to actually note that there's a lot of noise in such a specific stat? Isn't asking for more context when using random stats the opposite of myopic?
Fuck.
[Note: I never even ripped on his field goal percentage specifically. I think the problem with Rubio's shooting goes beyond that actually... he's actively avoided shooting at times. ]
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Wait. So you misinterpret my post (fair enough if I wrote it poorly), act condescending about me reading your posts in this thread... and then claim that I'm THE guy who focuses exclusively on FG% for a PG even though I've repeatedly championed the merits of Ricky Rubio in this very thread?
Are you fucking serious? C'mon man.
My point is that we're mining pretty deep to find obscure stats (conveniently taken from last night's telecast). How is it myopic to actually note that there's a lot of noise in such a specific stat? Isn't asking for more context when using random stats the opposite of myopic?
Fuck.
[Note: I never even ripped on his field goal percentage specifically. I think the problem with Rubio's shooting goes beyond that actually... he's actively avoided shooting at times. ]
Guy - go back and read all of what I wrote on this matter if you are that interested. You'll find I had more depth than Free Throw Rate (which I actually offered in response to a response). And all I've ever heard from you on this matter are references to his FG % or "clutch" which has to be the most laughable stat ever presented. So get out of here with your "are you fucking serious" bullshit. If you want to debate - fine...offer something to the subject matter besides "Rubio can't make baskets!". EVERYONE acknowledges that Rubio is not a good shooter. The discussion is how much his other stuff i.e. defense, assists, steals, drawing fouls, free throws etc. etc. etc. contributes directly to Wins or Losses and the best way to measure that.
The Rage Monster wrote:The constant Rubio bashing is so annoying. He couldn't shoot yesterday, he can't shoot today, and guess what he probably won't be able to tomorrow. He is who he is, a poor shooter but does basically everything else at a high level. He helps the team win, it's been posted how much better the team's winning percentage is with Rubio vs without him. He played 33 minutes and was +22 which means in the 20 minutes he didn't play the team was -21, we are clearly a better team with him and it's not even close.
Yup, that's been demonstrated time and again.
In defense of the bashers, I think there are legitimate concerns about a) his ability to stay healthy, and b) how his shooting would affect the offense in a 7-game playoff series.
I'd like to actually get to the playoffs for once so that we can find out! Given the state of our current roster, no Ricky = no playoffs. The sooner he isn't our best player anymore, the better. It would be nice to be able to depend on Wiggins, LaVine, and KAT to carry the vast majority of the load, with Rubio as the conductor. None of those guys are there yet, although KAT seems to be the closest, which is pretty damn amazing.
Agree with this 100% and even the legit concerns the bashers have.
The health thing I get, it's frustrating but this team isn't winning a championship this year so I'm fine with the cautious approach and having Rubio sit if something comes up. Next season will be the big one as far as Rubio being able to play every game. When we get to the playoffs it would be worthwhile to revisit how his shooting affected the offense. For now the bashers need to realize we aren't in the playoffs and wait to see what happens.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Wait. So you misinterpret my post (fair enough if I wrote it poorly), act condescending about me reading your posts in this thread... and then claim that I'm THE guy who focuses exclusively on FG% for a PG even though I've repeatedly championed the merits of Ricky Rubio in this very thread?
Are you fucking serious? C'mon man.
My point is that we're mining pretty deep to find obscure stats (conveniently taken from last night's telecast). How is it myopic to actually note that there's a lot of noise in such a specific stat? Isn't asking for more context when using random stats the opposite of myopic?
Fuck.
[Note: I never even ripped on his field goal percentage specifically. I think the problem with Rubio's shooting goes beyond that actually... he's actively avoided shooting at times. ]
Guy - go back and read all of what I wrote on this matter if you are that interested. You'll find I had more depth than Free Throw Rate (which I actually offered in response to a response). And all I've ever heard from you on this matter are references to his FG % or "clutch" which has to be the most laughable stat ever presented. So get out of here with your "are you fucking serious" bullshit. If you want to debate - fine...offer something to the subject matter besides "Rubio can't make baskets!". EVERYONE acknowledges that Rubio is not a good shooter. The discussion is how much his other stuff i.e. defense, assists, steals, drawing fouls, free throws etc. etc. etc. contributes directly to Wins or Losses and the best way to measure that.
I'm at a loss.
I mention at least 16 times in this thread that (1) Ricky Rubio is good and/or (2) He does a lot of things other than score.
And I mention how he's become so polarizing for some that there's no middle ground. I think you're the chief culprit of that right now in this very thread. I gave out at least 16 compliments to Ricky Rubio's play and never once mentioned his FG%. I'm RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE ON RUBIO. Yet I'm a hater? And I only rip him for his field goal %? That's not only inaccurate... it's unfair.
For one last time... Ricky Rubio is a good player. But his shooting will be a problem as this team tries to improve. How are we that far apart where we're actually angry at each other?
[Note: As for any stat... if you use it. Fine. But it's ok to ask questions about that stat or delve deeper into it. I tried to explain that a bit. For example, is free throw rate better than actual free throw attempts? I was pointing out that there's noise in that stat as there is in many stats. With about 5,000+ stats to pick and choose from nowadays... I think it's fair to dig deeper into what each of them means. That's NOT being myopic. Sorry, it's not.]
alexftbl8181 wrote:
First point, is sample size. For his career Rubio being on the court, the Wolves were still an under .500 team.
Second point is I'm assuming his free throw rate? Because Wiggins shoots a lot more free throws, but also shoots the ball a lot more then Rubio so the percentages are going to be off.
I don't think you can explain the record that easily since we can expand the data to Rubio's entire career:
Games Rubio Played: 94-123 (.433) vs. Games he missed 28-88 (.241). So...that's like an 80% better winning percentage over a 333 games sample. That's not insignificant.
And yes, I was referring to Free Throw Rate. Rubo is at .584 which leads the team - by a WIDE margin. And as noted earlier he's second in the NBA for Point Guards in Free Throw to FGA ratio. He's drawing plenty of fouls so far this year. In fact, he's 3rd on the team in total free throws/attempts even with missing six games.
Even the games missed isn't just as simple as you make it out to be. A huge chunk of his games missed were last year. Let's just say he was healthy that whole year. Would putting him in there with the lineups they were throwing out really have led to more wins? Everybody was injured, not just Rubio. Guys like Justin Hamilton, Chase Buddinger, and that guy who looked like Pek all played major minutes at points during the season. People forget too the season the Rubio played all 82, they pretty much shit the bed at the end of the year
For what it's worth, I think Rubio shot above 40% for the final couple of months to end up the season with career best percentages from the field.
[Note: The team still ended up with a very disappointing and underachieving 40 wins though.]
criteriado wrote:Russel was 2 of 7 against Rubio on the 4th and OT.
Criteria do - Thanks for bringing some facts into the picture.
Kahns -- Ricky can't shot, Ricky can't shoot, Ricky can't shoot. I get it. But there's a whole lot more to the game than one player's shooting. The point is that Ricky's play in every other facet of the game last night was very good to excellent, making him a net positive. Over the course of his career, he's been a huge net positive and the stats bear that out. Ricky put Towns in such a bad spot last night that Towns could only score 26 points on better than 50% shooting. As for that one play involving Wiggins, Ricky was smart enough not to leave Wiggins alone at the top of the key with a defender all over him knowing the shaky state of Wiggins' ball handling.
This season's record with Ricky Rubio playing: 8-7 (.533). Record without him is 1-5 (.167).
And yeah, I realize a team should play better with their starting PG vs. their back up. But come on. LaVine and Miller both have done fine with PER ratings above league average. So, if Rubio's lack of scoring is holding us back as some suggest - it shouldn't be that big of a drop off.
People just cannot wrap their heads around the fact that Rubio makes the team better - even as a poor shooter.
Sorting by qualified NBA PGs in Real GM Rubio is top 10 in numerous categories so far this year:
4th in Rebounding Percentage
5th in Assist Percentage
10th in Steal Percentage
6th in Assist to Turnover
2nd in Free Throw to Field Goal Attempt Ratio
This is what we have to work with right now. If they can upgrade the PG position (or any position for that matter) at a reasonable cost - then go for it! But a PG that scores more points or has a better FG% is not necessarily going to be an upgrade to Rubio.
Those 5 losses without Ricky were against Memphis, Charlotte, GS, Indy and LAC aka all teams with better than 56% winning percentages right now and LAC beat us with Ricky anyway. We're 4-5 with Rubio against teams with a .500 record or better. So it was a combination of starting a backup PG and playing 5 playoff teams out of the six games (we beat the only non-playoff team we played without Ricky in Sacramento). Ricky does make the team better when he plays, but let's not act like we would have automatically won 53% of those games he didn't play. We still very likely could have lost every game with him anyway given the competition.
khans2k5 wrote:
Those 5 losses without Ricky were against Memphis, Charlotte, GS, Indy and LAC aka all teams with better than 56% winning percentages right now and LAC beat us with Ricky anyway. We're 4-5 with Rubio against teams with a .500 record or better. So it was a combination of starting a backup PG and playing 5 playoff teams out of the six games (we beat the only non-playoff team we played without Ricky in Sacramento). Ricky does make the team better when he plays, but let's not act like we would have automatically won 53% of those games he didn't play. We still very likely could have lost every game with him anyway given the competition.
Nobody is acting like we'd have swept those 5 games. The point is that Rubio makes the team better when he plays which you've acknowledged.
Did Belly really airball that free throw? I'm thinking he had to and was embarrassed a bit because he flew like a bat out of hell the next couple of times down the court, seemingly trying to do something/anything to erase that awful sight.
The guy's field goal percentages are solid. 47/38. Every once in a while, he misses really badly and he's apparently never been a great guy from the line. I just haven't seen many "decent" shooters miss a free throw that badly before and found it interesting.
