thedoper wrote:I am really torn on this. I agree with the sentiment that what Flip said was good but it certainly wasn't helping the speculation about Love. But the reality that I keep coming back in all this garbage is that maybe Love really is as much of a douche bag as I feared. No one involved with him in pro basketball has nice things to say about the guy's personality. Everyone knows he is a great talent, but with this and the Rubio comments, and all of the other red flags I believe the writing is on the wall.
Maybe and that's a real fear but people are totally blowing the Rubio comments way out of proportion imo. Who is the vet leader on the Wolves? JJ Barea? Serious that probably it and that's a problem. It would be nice if Love was more of a leader but he is 25 and I don't think any of us have ever seen him as a strong leader type. Maybe he grows more into that role but he is 25 and while a vetern in years he is still pretty young. One of the highest priorities for Flip now is bring in one vet guy that can actually help lead this team. That could be a vet min guy but it needs to happen. Flip and his coaching staff needs to foster some growth in that area as well. To me Love is a pretty good guy really confident in himself in a lot of ways and also a little bit goofy in a fun way most of the time. He has no problem speaking his mind either. He is pretty smart and savy though in general. We are likely going to find out what kind of guy Love really is the next couple of years. Remember when Dwight Howard was a well liked guy as a superstar player? Yeah now he is one of the least liked players in the NBA. That was a big fall. I hope Love doesn't end up being a big jerk because I'm a big fan of his and have been since his rookie year.
thedoper wrote:I am really torn on this. I agree with the sentiment that what Flip said was good but it certainly wasn't helping the speculation about Love. But the reality that I keep coming back in all this garbage is that maybe Love really is as much of a douche bag as I feared. No one involved with him in pro basketball has nice things to say about the guy's personality. Everyone knows he is a great talent, but with this and the Rubio comments, and all of the other red flags I believe the writing is on the wall.
Maybe and that's a real fear but people are totally blowing the Rubio comments way out of proportion imo. Who is the vet leader on the Wolves? JJ Barea? Serious that probably it and that's a problem. It would be nice if Love was more of a leader but he is 25 and I don't think any of us have ever seen him as a strong leader type. Maybe he grows more into that role but he is 25 and while a vetern in years he is still pretty young. One of the highest priorities for Flip now is bring in one vet guy that can actually help lead this team. That could be a vet min guy but it needs to happen. Flip and his coaching staff needs to foster some growth in that area as well. To me Love is a pretty good guy really confident in himself in a lot of ways and also a little bit goofy in a fun way most of the time. He has no problem speaking his mind either. He is pretty smart and savy though in general. We are likely going to find out what kind of guy Love really is the next couple of years. Remember when Dwight Howard was a well liked guy as a superstar player? Yeah now he is one of the least liked players in the NBA. That was a big fall. I hope Love doesn't end up being a big jerk because I'm a big fan of his and have been since his rookie year.
I agree that all of the various comments are getting blown out of proportion but the common issue here is that people have no problems going public in their disapproval of Love's behavior. We saw it during the season with JJ and now it is continuing in the offseason with what Rubio and Flip are saying. The content of what their saying is not the problem, it is more the fact that they want to say those things publicly. If Love was such a great guy we would never be hearing anything.
thedoper wrote:I am really torn on this. I agree with the sentiment that what Flip said was good but it certainly wasn't helping the speculation about Love. But the reality that I keep coming back in all this garbage is that maybe Love really is as much of a douche bag as I feared. No one involved with him in pro basketball has nice things to say about the guy's personality. Everyone knows he is a great talent, but with this and the Rubio comments, and all of the other red flags I believe the writing is on the wall.
Maybe and that's a real fear but people are totally blowing the Rubio comments way out of proportion imo. Who is the vet leader on the Wolves? JJ Barea? Serious that probably it and that's a problem. It would be nice if Love was more of a leader but he is 25 and I don't think any of us have ever seen him as a strong leader type. Maybe he grows more into that role but he is 25 and while a vetern in years he is still pretty young. One of the highest priorities for Flip now is bring in one vet guy that can actually help lead this team. That could be a vet min guy but it needs to happen. Flip and his coaching staff needs to foster some growth in that area as well. To me Love is a pretty good guy really confident in himself in a lot of ways and also a little bit goofy in a fun way most of the time. He has no problem speaking his mind either. He is pretty smart and savy though in general. We are likely going to find out what kind of guy Love really is the next couple of years. Remember when Dwight Howard was a well liked guy as a superstar player? Yeah now he is one of the least liked players in the NBA. That was a big fall. I hope Love doesn't end up being a big jerk because I'm a big fan of his and have been since his rookie year.
I agree that all of the various comments are getting blown out of proportion but the common issue here is that people have no problems going public in their disapproval of Love's behavior. We saw it during the season with JJ and now it is continuing in the offseason with what Rubio and Flip are saying. The content of what their saying is not the problem, it is more the fact that they want to say those things publicly. If Love was such a great guy we would never be hearing anything.
Sorry I don't remember some of the season too well I got busy but are the comments from JJ that are being refered to on this board when Love called JJ and Dante out for not being in the huddle?
One of the frustrating things is that the analysis as to what Love has done for us and what he may bring vs. what trade options are out there, is that Adelman's lack of engagement clearly impacted our bottom line last year, and rightly or wrongly, Adelman's failures are being incorporated into the Love discussion. Not sure how to separate the two, but I would love to keep Love specifically to see what a coach who is engaged can do for our team.
Bayou Wolf wrote:One of the frustrating things is that the analysis as to what Love has done for us and what he may bring vs. what trade options are out there, is that Adelman's lack of engagement clearly impacted our bottom line last year, and rightly or wrongly, Adelman's failures are being incorporated into the Love discussion. Not sure how to separate the two, but I would love to keep Love specifically to see what a coach who is engaged can do for our team.
I think you bring up an interesting point Bayou. If we had a coach that was more disciplined defensively, we may have eked out a few more wins, possibly made the PO's and Love's defensive deficiencies may not be so glaring. I am not sure that we will see that much difference with Flip other than he will run more zone (as he mentioned in his presser). I do think he will spend more time working on D though, and that surely wouldn't hurt.
I still would have preferred a guy like Hollins. I think Rubio could adlib on offense and still make us pretty productive, where as we definitely need a coach that understands team schemes to improve on the defensive end.
A few weeks ago someone mentioned something about Adelman's system not fittting some players strengths. It hit me then and some of the last few posts reminded me of this. Rubio is a poor fit compared to pretty much every other Adelman PG since Sacramento. Think about it all of his PGs were guys that had no problem jacking up shots. They may have been good passers or maybe very average in that regard but they shot the ball. I remember how much Adelman said he liked Jamal Crawford when were were thinking of trading Beasely. Rubio Is one of the least trigger happy PGs you will ever see. It makes perfect sense that JJ would get run when he is more of a shot creator. Rubio never was able to develop into that guy when Adelman was here and I think Rick really liked Rubio's game but especially last year used JJ instead to a detriment. I don't see the need to totally rip on Adelman for his issues we were lucky to get him and then probably for at least half of last season unlucky to have him. That's like the Wolves luck with PGs. Lucky to get Terrell Brandon then unlucky to overpay him but even worse to have him get injured and then soon after never play again. We got what seemed to be the perfect coach for the roster and then injuries talent and father time took its toll on Adelman and his wife. Like Flip and JVG said they think there is a right time and the right situation for a coach. Adelman seemed to be it and it brought mixed results. Let's hope Flip is the guy that can at least get us to that next step the playoffs. I think he may be a very good coach for Rubio who can be a huge key to this team going forward if he improves getting his offense.
adelmans system involves people who can handle the ball and be able to pass. The problem wasn't rubio, it's that no one else could handle the ball, especially bench players
Love doesn't have a right to be frustrated. We gave him the option to leave 2 years early to go to a different team if he wants. We gave him 2 more years at more max level money because of a higher salary cap and him qualifying for 30% of said higher cap. Now he can save some face because he doesn't have to demand a trade which he would have if he signed a 5 year deal instead of a 3 year deal. I get he wanted the 5 years, but our front office gave him a gift of being able to opt out after 3 and choose what he wants to do versus having to force his way out a-la Melo and the OG D Will. He got the deal every max level guy in a bad situation should want in terms of maximizing how much money you can make while giving you the options that traditional RFA's would envy. We have the right to be frustrated, but Love doesn't because like Mitchell told KG, "You're the one making all the money."
That changes if Rose is back to his MVP form, but watching him last year was brutal. His jumper was the same (not good), but he wasn't finishing at the rim like he used to. I'm not sure he'll ever be the same player he once was. And let's not be foolish when comparing Noah to Love. I love JoNo's heart and grit (and the face he's a Gator), but he can't touch Love's level as a player.
Wasn't Noah first team all NBA? I think he can definitely touch Love's level as a player.
Players don't have the right to be frustrated unless they are being underpaid or are treated badly. Back in the magic/bird/jordan era. Star players don't whine and asked for 'help'. They stay loyal to the city and play like men. Nowadays, star players want to play with each other instead of beating each other. But this is what the league is right now, it is what it is.
My take is if love wants out, then trade him. I love kevin love's game and is a big fan but if he dont want to be here, then I dont want him here either. He has never been much of a true leader and I dont think he can be one to be honest. There are teams like cavs and kings that wont mind if love resigns with them or not. I'l prefer sending love to those 2 teams than the teams he 'preferred' I still prefer cavs the most because of their number 1 pick.
