Knee-jerk reactions from Vegas

[mjs34]

Tyus can get minutes in the D league, which I think is a much better strategy for this team. He isn't even close to being ready for a back up job in the NBA. I don't know why we spent 3 2nds on him in the first place. I think we should be filling back up roles with more ready players if we have truly made the shift to trying to get wins.

How can you be sure about that already?

I clearly possess that power! :)

[Lipoli390]

I've got a couple reactions. First, our SL coaching looked like a mess compared to other teams we played. We might as well of picked up five guys at the Y and thrown them out them without any practice. God I hope Ryan Saunders never becomes our head coach.

Towns' FG% isn't a problem for me, but his lack of D against SL talent is. My biggest concern with KAT was his mental toughness or edge, and he has done nothing to dispel that concern. I am not surprised that he couldn't duplicate the shooting he showed in his video where he took shots in the gym that were uncontested. I am surprised at the type of shots he took. His decison making will certainly need to improve.

Zach is a player that is going to need a lot of coaching. He takes a lot of unbalanced bad shots, but I do like that he looks stronger. Most of his improvement will likely come throughout the season with more playing time.

I am not surprised by Tyus mainly because I had very low expectations. I think we need to pickup a back up PG (#2) for the season. Neither Tyus or Brown are capable of stepping in if Ricky goes down.

I like what Payne has done, and think he looks the part of a back up PF, but his outside shooting is atrocious. Uncalled bank shots are shots that missed their target by 3 feet or more.

SJM - I agree with with all your points. Here are a couple additions or caveats to your analysis:

1. Regarding Towns, I don't think his shot selection was as bad as you suggest. He just missed on a lot of decent looks, including the two air balls from behind the arc. Those were both good looks and clearly he's a much better shooter then he showed there. I think it was nerves and that might go to the mental toughness you were referring to. Like you, my main concern was his defense. He got beat way too easily by summer league level players. That troubles me, but I'm not alarmed. I'm more concerned about the lack of quality Wolves defensive coaches to help him improve in that area. But the good news take-away from Towns' summer league performance was his passing. I knew he was good, but not that good. He has a great feel for the game and looks like he'll be a tremendous passer.

2. I agree that Tyus doesn't even look like a back-up caliber PG at this stage. I know it's only 3 summer league games, but at the same time it's only summer league competition. Yet he looked awful against that level of competition. My concern is that I can't see his path forward to becoming a quality NBA PG. put his very poor summer league stats aside for a moment and just consider what we saw from him on the court. He's clearly not big for his position. At the same time, he's really slow both with and without the ball. I mean really slow! Knowing he wasn't blessed with size o NBA caliber quickness, I looked for some quality shake or elusiveness in his game - i.e., I didn't see great ball-handling coupled with really good change of speed and direction. Not surprisingly, I didn't see him get by anyone on dribble penetration. Fin addition, he's just not a particularly good shooter. Finally, I was really troubled by what looked like a lack of total effort and intensity.

3. I agree with you on Payne, but I'll go a step further and argue that his outside shot looked like it was coming around. I haven't been a fan of the Payne trade, but if he takes what we saw these last three games and carries those qualities into the regular season on a consistent basis, I'll gladly admit I was wrong about him.

4. I think Lorenzo Brown earned the a place in the regular season roster as a back-up PG, but I'd still like to see him third on the PG depth chart, which means we need to sign a decent seconspd stringer.

[Coolbreeze44]

I've got a couple reactions. First, our SL coaching looked like a mess compared to other teams we played. We might as well of picked up five guys at the Y and thrown them out them without any practice. God I hope Ryan Saunders never becomes our head coach.

Towns' FG% isn't a problem for me, but his lack of D against SL talent is. My biggest concern with KAT was his mental toughness or edge, and he has done nothing to dispel that concern. I am not surprised that he couldn't duplicate the shooting he showed in his video where he took shots in the gym that were uncontested. I am surprised at the type of shots he took. His decison making will certainly need to improve.

Zach is a player that is going to need a lot of coaching. He takes a lot of unbalanced bad shots, but I do like that he looks stronger. Most of his improvement will likely come throughout the season with more playing time.

I am not surprised by Tyus mainly because I had very low expectations. I think we need to pickup a back up PG (#2) for the season. Neither Tyus or Brown are capable of stepping in if Ricky goes down.

I like what Payne has done, and think he looks the part of a back up PF, but his outside shooting is atrocious. Uncalled bank shots are shots that missed their target by 3 feet or more.

SJM - I agree with with all your points. Here are a couple additions or caveats to your analysis:

1. Regarding Towns, I don't think his shot selection was as bad as you suggest. He just missed on a lot of decent looks, including the two air balls from behind the arc. Those were both good looks and clearly he's a much better shooter then he showed there. I think it was nerves and that might go to the mental toughness you were referring to. Like you, my main concern was his defense. He got beat way too easily by summer league level players. That troubles me, but I'm not alarmed. I'm more concerned about the lack of quality Wolves defensive coaches to help him improve in that area. But the good news take-away from Towns' summer league performance was his passing. I knew he was good, but not that good. He has a great feel for the game and looks like he'll be a tremendous passer.

2. I agree that Tyus doesn't even look like a back-up caliber PG at this stage. I know it's only 3 summer league games, but at the same time it's only summer league competition. Yet he looked awful against that level of competition. My concern is that I can't see his path forward to becoming a quality NBA PG. put his very poor summer league stats aside for a moment and just consider what we saw from him on the court. He's clearly not big for his position. At the same time, he's really slow both with and without the ball. I mean really slow! Knowing he wasn't blessed with size o NBA caliber quickness, I looked for some quality shake or elusiveness in his game - i.e., I didn't see great ball-handling coupled with really good change of speed and direction. Not surprisingly, I didn't see him get by anyone on dribble penetration. Fin addition, he's just not a particularly good shooter. Finally, I was really troubled by what looked like a lack of total effort and intensity.

3. I agree with you on Payne, but I'll go a step further and argue that his outside shot looked like it was coming around. I haven't been a fan of the Payne trade, but if he takes what we saw these last three games and carries those qualities into the regular season on a consistent basis, I'll gladly admit I was wrong about him.

4. I think Lorenzo Brown earned the a place in the regular season roster as a back-up PG, but I'd still like to see him third on the PG depth chart, which means we need to sign a decent seconspd stringer.

Good Lord, you too Lip? Okay, after 3 summer league games let's sign a backup point guard and totally dismiss Jones as a viable option. He just sucks. I've already seen everything he can become, so let's just move on already.

When are you guys going to learn not to make stupid rash judgments on our young players? It happens over and over again, and it's always the same guys. I don't care if he had been great these 3 games. It still wouldn't mean a goddam thing. Give the guy a fricking chance for Christ sake. You guys were saying the same things about Payne last year. I told you at the time you were being too judgmental too early. And now some of you are back here talking about how good he looks.

Sorry for the rant, but this gets sickening.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

. . . Sorry for the rant, but this gets sickening.

A knee-jerk reaction to knee-jerk reactions? LST, you titled this thread well, my friend.

[A Friendly Flatulence [enjin:8907904]]

I'm not calling anybody a bust until they can buy themselves a beer, as a general rule. (I know you didn't call Tyus a bust, but I liked the phrasing) The lack of hustle was a bit perplexing maybe he just wasn't fully into the game because he didn't or is distracted or something else who knows.

Now some thoughts on Towns,
Passing wise he has the potential to become the best passing big man in the league from what I've seen so far. His most developed skill IMO and it will help his offense as defenders will have to respect that aspect of his game out of the gate.
His scoring offense has been more "underwhelming" than I originally thought, but I attribute it to a lack of lower body strength and his inability to really get the position he wants in the post. That will change in time. Getting stronger will also help him not get pushed around on rebounds, but from what I saw he is alert, giving effort and boxing out when in position, which are good signs.

He plays within himself which I really like. He stayed in control for the majority of time on offense I was able to watch (2 1/2 games) aside from maybe trying to force it just a bit in the 3rd game, but Lavine was out so I think that was the coaches telling him be the focal point.

On defense I think part of the reason he was beat several times was because he is trying to "be" too much. He has one eye on the ball waiting to rotate over and "be" the helpside shot blocking anchor of the defense and it causes his man to get a half step on him because he is not fully engaged in defending his man straight up.

Stamina needs work, at least in the 3rd game it was evident towards the end that he seemed to be running out of steam. That half step slow or sloppy play that comes from being gassed. I think his game endurance will have to be built up over the course of the season, one of the downsides to only playing 23 minutes a game last year is he could go all out in every aspect of the game while he was on the court, he will have to learn to pick his spots so he doesn't wear himself out too quickly.

Attitude, love it. It kinda ties into stamina which I think is hurting him now but will prove to be one of his greatest strengths in a few years. He is trying to do everything in all apects of the game, from showing hard to rotating helpside for shot blocking on D, to trying to establish post position every time down the court on offense, going for any lose ball he could conceivable get he goes for it. He appears to be very team oriented player.

I could not be happier with the selection of Towns, while it may take longer than I thought for him to fully develop all the aspects of his game I don't see anything that leads me to believe he will be deficient in any area.

Calling it now Towns' 3rd year in the league is when we become more than just a feel good story and are a force to be reckoned with.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

. . . Sorry for the rant, but this gets sickening.

A knee-jerk reaction to knee-jerk reactions? LST, you titled this thread well, my friend.

Ha, my knees were jerking uncontrollably while I was watching the games, so I figured you guys might be having the same reaction! After not watching any Wolves basketball for 3 months and having all these new guys to analyze, it's hard to not jump to conclusions.

My biggest knee-jerking was concluding that Towns doesn't block out very well, but above I see FF concluding he does block out well. I guess it's impossible to watch all 5 players all the time (unless you're watching video over and over), and we base our conclusions on a small sample size of what we happened to be focusing on. Towns likely boxed out well while FF was watching him, and not while I was.

As for Tyus Jones, he seems to be what we thought he was (to paraphrase Denny Green)...an undersized, not particularly athletic PG with a good feel for the game for such a young player. I think he will be a fine back up PG once he gets used to the speed of the NBA game, and I think Brown can also be an effective, but not spectacular, back up. I don't see the need for Flip to find another PG, but unless Tyus shows me a lot more before November, I would prefer LoBrow backing up Ricky early in the season. Although neither are particularly quick, LoBrow's length is an asset on defense that Tyus will never have. I will say that although Tyus struggled on defense in the Utah game, I didn't find him to be a Mo Williams-like liability in the first two games. Of course, he wasn't lined up against Chris Paul, though.

[Coolbreeze44]

. . . Sorry for the rant, but this gets sickening.

A knee-jerk reaction to knee-jerk reactions? LST, you titled this thread well, my friend.

Ha, my knees were jerking uncontrollably while I was watching the games, so I figured you guys might be having the same reaction! After not watching any Wolves basketball for 3 months and having all these new guys to analyze, it's hard to not jump to conclusions.

My biggest knee-jerking was concluding that Towns doesn't block out very well, but above I see FF concluding he does block out well. I guess it's impossible to watch all 5 players all the time (unless you're watching video over and over), and we base our conclusions on a small sample size of what we happened to be focusing on. Towns likely boxed out well while FF was watching him, and not while I was.

As for Tyus Jones, he seems to be what we thought he was (to paraphrase Denny Green)...an undersized, not particularly athletic PG with a good feel for the game for such a young player. I think he will be a fine back up PG once he gets used to the speed of the NBA game, and I think Brown can also be an effective, but not spectacular, back up. I don't see the need for Flip to find another PG, but unless Tyus shows me a lot more before November, I would prefer LoBrow backing up Ricky early in the season. Although neither are particularly quick, LoBrow's length is an asset on defense that Tyus will never have. I will say that although Tyus struggled on defense in the Utah game, I didn't find him to be a Mo Williams-like liability in the first two games. Of course, he wasn't lined up against Chris Paul, though.

LST, don't forget Zach. He's going to have difficulty getting enough minutes when everyone is healthy. I surely see him getting some run at the point, even if it's for short stretches. Or at least until Tyus is fully acclimated to the speed of the game.

[Brandon BassHole [enjin:8183321]]

Devin Booker looks really good could be the Lavine of this draft. That is a Player that drops to the back of the lottery because they are 18 and have the tools but havn't put it together yet. (both drafted 13)

[Monster]

So I guess Lip wants this team 5 deep at PG? I doubt it I don't think he thought through that whole take. Also he makes Tyus sounds like he is part tortoise. He isn't that bad as an athlete. I'm just giving you a hard time Lip. :)

Tyus is a guy that seems to bra better in a system or some sort of environment where he gets to do what he is supposed to do. A couple days of practice isn't enough for that. He can't just go out and blow you away with quickness etc. How many of these 2nd rounder undrafted PGs look terrific every year in SL and amount to nothing later? The answer is most. Besides none of these SL games have mattered yet. Tyus is gonna step up BIGTIME in the tournament! Lol

It's fun to analyze these guys and take what you can but I realized this morning this is 3 games let's take a deep breath here.

Also about Brown as a backup PG. If Brown ends up playing significant minutes because Rubio is hurt does his play hinder development of other guys or not? If his play is good enough to keep the offense rolling enough guys can do their thing that may be good enough. Sometimes we get too wrapped up in vet PGs. Some of them aren't really PGs in some cases undersized SGs or combo guards that have varying degrees of ability when running the point. I read Ridour hasn't decided yet if he is even going to play this next year. I like the idea of a vet PG but how much better is a guy like Luke than Brown? At this point if we kept Brown worst case scenario we could dump him and sign another guy if he wasn't up to the task. There is plenty of time to sort this thing out. I like Brown but I am not dying to keep him either. Like I said before I'll defer to Flip on the PG thing.

[Coolbreeze44]

So I guess Lip wants this team 5 deep at PG? I doubt it I don't think he thought through that whole take. Also he makes Tyus sounds like he is part tortoise. He isn't that bad as an athlete. I'm just giving you a hard time Lip. :)

Tyus is a guy that seems to bra better in a system or some sort of environment where he gets to do what he is supposed to do. A couple days of practice isn't enough for that. He can't just go out and blow you away with quickness etc. How many of these 2nd rounder undrafted PGs look terrific every year in SL and amount to nothing later? The answer is most. Besides none of these SL games have mattered yet. Tyus is gonna step up BIGTIME in the tournament! Lol

It's fun to analyze these guys and take what you can but I realized this morning this is 3 games let's take a deep breath here.

Also about Brown as a backup PG. If Brown ends up playing significant minutes because Rubio is hurt does his play hinder development of other guys or not? If his play is good enough to keep the offense rolling enough guys can do their thing that may be good enough. Sometimes we get too wrapped up in vet PGs. Some of them aren't really PGs in some cases undersized SGs or combo guards that have varying degrees of ability when running the point. I read Ridour hasn't decided yet if he is even going to play this next year. I like the idea of a vet PG but how much better is a guy like Luke than Brown? At this point if we kept Brown worst case scenario we could dump him and sign another guy if he wasn't up to the task. There is plenty of time to sort this thing out. I like Brown but I am not dying to keep him either. Like I said before I'll defer to Flip on the PG thing.

Nice Voice of Reason Monster