Thursday's Friday Funkadelic

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Khans, Learning how to play off the ball and score is an important piece of the puzzle, but certainly not all of the puzzle. By all means, his ability to develop his handles and off-the-dribble shot are also really important. But getting easy putbacks, layups in transition, and dunks off cuts are all high-efficiency plays. He needs to do more of it.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

I think the issue with Martin is if he is not scoring or putting up shots he really doesn't bring anything else. Shabazz brings rebounding. Wiggins brings defense. LaVine brings another ball handler and shooting.

I dunno, I think your underselling Martin big time. It's not like this team doesn't need shooting. When Martin is on, his best is still better then anyone on the team.

[Coolbreeze44]

Q - I think LaVine benefits more form Rubio then Martin. I think LaVine should start and if he is a net neutral or positive he should be in to continue to develop. I think we need to start building chemistry with Wiggins, Towns, LaVine, and Rubio as soon as we can. I think Martin hurt the development of Wiggins more then anyone else on the team. i say he should be the guy off the bench. I would still trade him if you can get a good asset for him. (28 year old or younger starting caliber PG would be perfect in exchange for him)[/quote]

I completely agree. I would always get very frustrated watching Martin jack up shots and not move the ball when Wiggins was on the floor with him. You could see Wiggins get iced out of the offense whenever Martin was in, resulting in Wiggins doing a lot of standing around. Some of that is on Wig, some on offensive schemes, but man it was frustrating.

To the bolded comment... that almost seems exactly like Ty Lawson to me haha. 28 years old, 2 years/25mm remaining on his contract. Could we convince them to take Martin and Bennett? It would give them 7mm additional cap space, us a legit backup/starter to give Jones more time, but does imbalance their roster some.

I didn't mind Martin taking shots away from Wiggins. I felt it was important for Wiggins to learn how to impact the game without being spoon-fed the ball. Look at how Shabazz was able to score. It's not that he dominated the ball or that elaborate plays were set up for him. He just hustled his way to buckets - making timely basket cuts, running the floor hard, hitting the offensive glass. One of my nit-picks of Wiggins last season was that he didn't work hard enough off the ball to put himself in position to score. Great scorers figure out ways to put the ball in the bucket without having plays run for them.

I can agree that Wiggins was too passive when plays weren't run for him. But I don't think it was about Martin taking shots away from Andrew, I think it was Martin being a ball stopper and stagnating the offensive movement. I saw way too much shot hunting from Kevin at the expense of everyone else trying to run the offense as designed. As a result it cost a lot of guys more quality shots. Kevin is a gifted shot maker, but i'd like to see his shots come more out of the flow of the offense instead of as the result of him being a black hole.

[bleedspeed]

I dunno, I think your underselling Martin big time. It's not like this team doesn't need shooting. When Martin is on, his best is still better then anyone on the team.

HOW DARE YOU!

I agree with you, but don't think he should start because he hinders the development of the rest of the team.

[Lipoli390]

I dunno, I think your underselling Martin big time. It's not like this team doesn't need shooting. When Martin is on, his best is still better then anyone on the team.

HOW DARE YOU!

I agree with you, but don't think he should start because he hinders the development of the rest of the team.

I agree with Alex's assessment of Martin and his value to the team. But I agree with Bleed on not putting him in the starting lineup. We are a rebuilding team. Therefore, the primary objective shine every basketball decision should be longer range development. The organization has assembled a very talented core group of young players in Rubio, Wiggins, LaVine, Towns, Shabazz and Dieng - maybe Payne or Bennett. It's time to put them together on the court as we expect them to be 2 years down the road so they have the chance to learn to play together and so the team can see how they blend.

If the young core we have today is the group to eventually put us in championship contention, then I would expect the starters would be Rubio, LaVine, Wiggins, Towns and someone else at the position Towns doesn't play. One thing for sure is that our starters on a championship contender in 3 years won't include Martin or KG. However I could see Martin as a scorer off the bench in 3 years.

So I'm with Bleed. Let's start the season bringing Martin off the bench and have LaVine (or maybe Shabazz) In the starting lineup instead.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I dunno, I think your underselling Martin big time. It's not like this team doesn't need shooting. When Martin is on, his best is still better then anyone on the team.

HOW DARE YOU!

I agree with you, but don't think he should start because he hinders the development of the rest of the team.

I agree with Alex's assessment of Martin and his value to the team. But I agree with Bleed on not putting him in the starting lineup. We are a rebuilding team. Therefore, the primary objective shine every basketball decision should be longer range development. The organization has assembled a very talented core group of young players in Rubio, Wiggins, LaVine, Towns, Shabazz and Dieng - maybe Payne or Bennett. It's time to put them together on the court as we expect them to be 2 years down the road so they have the chance to learn to play together and so the team can see how they blend.

If the young core we have today is the group to eventually put us in championship contention, then I would expect the starters would be Rubio, LaVine, Wiggins, Towns and someone else at the position Towns doesn't play. One thing for sure is that our starters on a championship contender in 3 years won't include Martin or KG. However I could see Martin as a scorer off the bench in 3 years.

So I'm with Bleed. Let's start the season bringing Martin off the bench and have LaVine (or maybe Shabazz) In the starting lineup instead.

I guess it's a balance Lip. I'm of the belief that players can and do develop without necessarily having to start games. Hell, that's been the progression of countless players over the years. To use one simple example: Draymond Green. He only began starting games this season. The fact he came off the bench his first two seasons certainly didn't seem to negatively affect his development or chemistry with team mates!

If LaVine earns the starting position, by all means, he should start. If not, I know that he will get plenty of minutes off the bench and hopefully continue to develop. Merit has to play some part in the equation.

[Carlos Danger]

I think Flip will want to mix his young guys with vets on both 1st and 2nd units. If Pek is healthy then I could certainly see LaVine starting too: Pek,KG,Wiggins,Rubio, LaVine. But if Towns is starting and KG only starts part time meaning Payne or Bjelica start too, then I think you need Martin with that group: Towns, Bjelica, Wiggins, Rubio, Martin otherwise it's too many unproven guys.

[bleedspeed]

CD, I agree, but I think Rubio and KG are vet enough and then he can add in that Dieng and Shabazz are both in 3rd year he would have some experience on the floor. Also Wiggins is pretty experienced if you go by minutes played.

So give me:


KG/Pek Nights
Rubio, LaVine, Wiggins, KG, Pek
Vet PG, Martin, Shabazz, Towns, Dieng

KG/Pek Off Nights
Rubio, LaVine, Wiggins, Towns, Dieng
Vet PG, Martin, Shabazz, Bjelica, Payne

[mrhockey89]

I agree with Q on Lavine. And I don't think that it's in Lavine's best interest to get handed a starting position until he earns it. The young guys need reason to work hard and play the right way. If you hand Lavine the keys without making him earn it, what incentive does he have to play the team game or get better within the team concept? Competition is what will make Lavine better fastest, and I truly believe that. Additionally, I think (and would expect) Martin to be pissed off if he lost a starting spot and Lavine didn't even earn it over him. That teaches noone a lesson except that the coaches view the current year as a throwaway year...and that's the "best" case scenario.

[bleedspeed]

Who said give LaVine a spot? I think make it his or Shabazz's job to lose. There is no better way to learn then doing. LaVine played out of position all last year and really finished strong. Shabazz was killing it before his injuries. He shot over 5 tenths better from the field and was hitting at the same % on 3's as Martin and grabbing twice as many boards per minute. When you look at it that way you shouldn't just hand it to Martin.