Thursday's Friday Funkadelic

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Who said give LaVine a spot? I think make it his or Shabazz's job to lose. There is no better way to learn then doing. LaVine played out of position all last year and really finished strong. Shabazz was killing it before his injuries. He shot over 5 tenths better from the field and was hitting at the same % on 3's as Martin and grabbing twice as many boards per minute. When you look at it that way you shouldn't just had it to Martin.

ugh Shabazz in the starting lineup would be awful. 4 post players with a guard who can't stretchthe floor?

One thing people forget is how Shabazz's numbers took a pretty big hit when he was suddenly thrust into a starting role and playing 30 MPG. Off the bench, he was an absolute terror.

[Carlos Danger]

CD - Isn't Martin on of the worst clutch players in history? I remember reading something about that after Love's last year with the team.

Hey Bleed. I'm not sure. I personally do not put much stock into "clutch" stats since they are generally a small sample. Some people will argue there is no such thing as "clutch" and that given enough data, people will almost always perform to their statistical averages regardless of the situation. But to address your concern, I personally feel very confident when Martin is in the game late because he is one of our better shooters AND an excellent free throw shooter as well. He's not a good defender. And I agree with Kahns in that I wouldn't refer to him as a "leader". But I think the guy has more value than some are giving credit for on here. And I think if he puts up big numbers to start the year, he could be an attractive trade target for other teams which might bring us an asset back.

[mrhockey89]

Who said give LaVine a spot? I think make it his or Shabazz's job to lose. There is no better way to learn then doing. LaVine played out of position all last year and really finished strong. Shabazz was killing it before his injuries. He shot over 5 tenths better from the field and was hitting at the same % on 3's as Martin and grabbing twice as many boards per minute. When you look at it that way you shouldn't just hand it to Martin.

Multiple people suggested it. And if you make it a player's job to lose, when they haven't outperformed the player who previously held the position, then you're handing them the job. IF Lavine had outplayed Martin last year (ludicrous), then I'd agree make it their job to lose...but the fact is that last year Martin played the same as he always does, and was still better than Lavine means to me that the player who deserves the benefit of the doubt in this scenario is the one who performed better.

With that said, if Lavine ends up outperforming Martin in a game situation and shows he has taken the next step in his progression, then I think that's when you give Lavine the starting job. Lavine did well in his couple summer league games and just dropped 49 in the Seattle Pro-Am, but a guy with his athleticism and skill set should dominate lesser competition. I want to see him do it in a game that matters.
I'm hopeful he's getting there, but Martin is the proven player on the big stage...so far.

[Monster]

It feels more like the options we are discussion here are more legit and actually almost too much of a good thing than I can remember in quite a while. Ugh no I jinxed it. Oh well. seriously though Martin is a nice player to have and Lavone did show something doem the streth last year. Bazz when he started nailed a higher percentage of 3's and FTs so it wasn't all lower when he got those bigger minutes. I think people forget Bazz actually has some likeliness to hit 3 point shots he isn't just a guy that scores only in or near the paint. It's nice to have some guys on the wing with actual production and or upside.

[Coolbreeze44]

Who said give LaVine a spot? I think make it his or Shabazz's job to lose. There is no better way to learn then doing. LaVine played out of position all last year and really finished strong. Shabazz was killing it before his injuries. He shot over 5 tenths better from the field and was hitting at the same % on 3's as Martin and grabbing twice as many boards per minute. When you look at it that way you shouldn't just hand it to Martin.

Multiple people suggested it. And if you make it a player's job to lose, when they haven't outperformed the player who previously held the position, then you're handing them the job. IF Lavine had outplayed Martin last year (ludicrous), then I'd agree make it their job to lose...but the fact is that last year Martin played the same as he always does, and was still better than Lavine means to me that the player who deserves the benefit of the doubt in this scenario is the one who performed better.

With that said, if Lavine ends up outperforming Martin in a game situation and shows he has taken the next step in his progression, then I think that's when you give Lavine the starting job. Lavine did well in his couple summer league games and just dropped 49 in the Seattle Pro-Am, but a guy with his athleticism and skill set should dominate lesser competition. I want to see him do it in a game that matters.
I'm hopeful he's getting there, but Martin is the proven player on the big stage...so far.

Did you miss the last 20 games of the season?

[MikkeMan]

I agree with Lip and others that want to start right away Lavine and Towns. I won't expect that it would affect much how fast either of the players will be improving but it will help in building chemistry between our potential future starters. Also it will help Wolves to see earlier how well all those pieces start to fit together.

Other benefit that I see in starting both Lavine and Towns instead of Martin and Pek, is that it will provide some stability for Wolves roster. Since Pek and Martin will be likely to miss quite many games and one part time player Garnett will be anyway starting, starting all three would mean that Wolves would likely have had at least eight different starting fives in the end of season. And that was calculated with the assumption that Wiggins and Rubio would not have missed any games.

Or course it is quite probable that both Pek and Martin will miss games even in case they come from the bench but when they come from bench it doesn't have that big effect Wolves rotation. It might also keep Martin and Pek healthier since it is easier to limit their minutes when they come from bench. Martin played most games in last four years when he came from bench in Oklahoma. Golden State has been able to keep Bogut relatively healthy by reducing dramatically how many minutes he plays and he used to be even more injury prone than Pek.

[bleedspeed]

I think people forget Bazz actually has some likeliness to hit 3 point shots he isn't just a guy that scores only in or near the paint. It's nice to have some guys on the wing with actual production and or upside.

They sure do. He hit 39% from 3 last year overall. Look at his starter vs coming of the bench numbers last year. He shot 8% better on 3's(44%) and 18% (84%)better when starting then coming off the bench. His overall FG% dropped from 52% to 45% though.

[MikkeMan]

Yeah I can definitely get on board with that assessment. Though Shabazz did have plenty of spoon fed opportunities as well. Just think of all the post-ups he did more into the season. Just about every one of those was a shot in near black hole proportions. He was just very effective at scoring because he outmatched defenders with strength and an unblockable left hook (admission: eye test, no stats involved on effectiveness! :)).

Here are some stats to back your eye test. NBA.com had 1st time last year some nice play type efficiency stats available. Here is the breakdown about current Wolves players:

Wiggins:
Transition: 12.0% of possessions with 1.17 points per possession
Isolation: 16.4% with 0.85 ppp
Ball handler(pick and roll): 8.8% with 0.68 ppp
Roll man: 2.8% with 0.95 ppp
Post-up: 20.8% with 0.84 ppp
Spot-up: 12.2% with 0.84 ppp
Hand-off: 3.6% with 0.62 ppp
Cut: 5.7% with 1.34 ppp
Off screen: 8.6% with 0.89 ppp
Putbacks: 5.7% with 1.24 ppp
Misc: 3.4% with 0.54 ppp

- It looks like that if Wiggins would be running harder for transition opportunities, cutting more without the ball and go harder for offensive rebounds like Q suggested, his FG% would improve dramatically. Still he is already quite versatile scorer that scores with pretty good efficiency also from isolations and post-ups. If he will further improve in those areas, he will be real elite scorer since it is easier to increase the amount of those type or plays

Lavine:
Transition: 25.5% with 1.08 ppp
Isolation: 12.6% with 0.62 ppp
Ball handler: 28.4% with 0.65 ppp
Spot up: 13.4% with 1.06 ppp
Hand-off: 6.8% with 0.97 ppp
Cut: 1.8% with 0.82 ppp
Off screen: 2.6% with 0.50 ppp
Putbacks: 1.5% with 1.5 ppp
Misc: 7.1% with 0.30 ppp

- Lavines scoring stats clearly show that his FG% should benefit if he will play this year more off the ball. It would be nice to see what his Isolation and pick and roll ball handler scoring stats would have been post all star break

Muhammad:
Transition: 16.5% with 1.22 ppp
Isolation: 4.1% with 1.2 ppp
Ball handler: 4.1% with 0.75 ppp
Post-up: 24.1% with 0.97 ppp
Spot up: 12.7% with 0.97 ppp
Cut: 14.1% with 1.17 ppp
Off screen: 8.2% with 0.85 ppp
Putbacks: 10.2% with 1.12 ppp
Misc: 4.1% with 1.00 ppp

- Shabazz is efficient scorer from almost any play type but he had quite few isolation plays and I'm pretty sure his efficiency there would drop dramatically if he would be relied more in those type of plays. He was also by far most efficient post-up scorer in last year Wolves team.

Martin:
Transition: 13.8% with 1.25 ppp
Isolation: 15.3% with 0.99 ppp
Ball handler: 11.1% with 0.91 ppp
Post-up: 4.0% with 0.71 ppp
Spot-up: 14.7% with 1.09 ppp
Hand-off: 7.2% with 1.02 ppp
Cut: 2.6% with 0.90 ppp
Off screen: 25.0% with 0.82 ppp
Misc: 5.0% with 1.00 ppp

- Martin was easily the most versatile perimeter scorer.

Rubio:
Transition: 15.1% with 0.71 ppp
Isolation: 6.6% with 1.1 ppp
Ball handler: 37.1% with 0.69 ppp
Spot-up: 22.3% with 0.75 ppp
Hand-off: 5.3% with 0.41 ppp
Misc: 9.4% with 0.60 ppp

- Ricky was pretty bad everywhere with the exception of isolations. Since he played quite few games, that is most likely just because of noisy sample.

Brown:
Transition: 24.8% with 1.05 ppp
Isolation: 8.7% with 0.5 ppp
Ball handler: 24.2% with 0.69 ppp
Spot-up: 19.9% with 0.41 ppp
Misc: 9.9% with 0.38 ppp

- Brown was even worse scorer than Rubio but he was more efficient in transition.

Dieng:
Transition: 5.0% with 1.08 ppp
Isolation: 4.0% with 0.97 ppp
Roll man: 11.8% with 1.17 ppp
Post-up: 27.5% with 0.85 ppp
Spot up: 6.4% with 0.54 ppp
Cut: 18.3% with 1.28 ppp
Putbacks: 16.0% with 0.99 ppp
Misc: 10.6% with 0.40 ppp

- Dieng was quite effective in all typical play types for bigs. He would benefit a lot if Wolves would have better pick and roll ball handlers.

Pekovic:
Transition: 4.7% with 1.11 ppp
Roll man: 6.8% with 1.14 ppp
Post-up: 55.8% with 0.86 ppp
Cut: 11.1% with 1.15 ppp
Putbacks: 16.5% with 0.91 ppp
Misc: 4.7% with 0.45 ppp

- Someone commented that Pek didn't get enough pick and roll opportunities. Stats support this strongly. He had more than 50% of his plays post-ups and was not that efficient on those. Hopefully this year it will be more just cuts, rolls and putbacks for Pek.

Bennett:
Transition: 8.1% with 1.38 ppp
Isolation: 4.7% with 0.59 ppp
Roll man: 24.7% with 0.76 ppp
Post-up: 8.9% with 0.5 ppp
Spot-up: 21.1% with 0.78 ppp
Cut: 11.9% with 0.91 ppp
Off screen: 3.6% with 0.62 ppp
Putbacks: 10.0% with 1.28 ppp
Misc: 5.6% with 0.10 ppp

- Bennett was good only in transition and putbacks. I remember quite many monster dunks from him in those type of plays. Unfortunately they combine only less than 20% of his shot attempts and he was prety awful in other areas.

Payne
Transition: 5.0% with 0.71 ppp
Isolation: 9.4% with 0.69 ppp
Roll man: 15.8% with 0.84 ppp
Post-up: 12.9% with 0.78 ppp
Spot-up: 25.2% with 0.69 ppp
Cut: 10.4% with 0.93 ppp
Putbacks: 10.1% with 1.04 ppp
Misc: 7.9% with 0.27 ppp

- Payne was pretty bad in all areas. His transition numbers are especially awful. His play type division was quite similar what Bennett had. It will be nice to see if he will improve next season with full training camp.

[AbeVigodaLive]

CD - Isn't Martin on of the worst clutch players in history? I remember reading something about that after Love's last year with the team.

Hey Bleed. I'm not sure. I personally do not put much stock into "clutch" stats since they are generally a small sample. Some people will argue there is no such thing as "clutch" and that given enough data, people will almost always perform to their statistical averages regardless of the situation. But to address your concern, I personally feel very confident when Martin is in the game late because he is one of our better shooters AND an excellent free throw shooter as well. He's not a good defender. And I agree with Kahns in that I wouldn't refer to him as a "leader". But I think the guy has more value than some are giving credit for on here. And I think if he puts up big numbers to start the year, he could be an attractive trade target for other teams which might bring us an asset back.

Those guys have "won" the baseball discussion.

When they win and it takes over basketball... I'm out. I can't agree with that. Anybody who has ever played basketball couldn't possibly agree with that either.

[Carlos Danger]

CD - Isn't Martin on of the worst clutch players in history? I remember reading something about that after Love's last year with the team.

Hey Bleed. I'm not sure. I personally do not put much stock into "clutch" stats since they are generally a small sample. Some people will argue there is no such thing as "clutch" and that given enough data, people will almost always perform to their statistical averages regardless of the situation. But to address your concern, I personally feel very confident when Martin is in the game late because he is one of our better shooters AND an excellent free throw shooter as well. He's not a good defender. And I agree with Kahns in that I wouldn't refer to him as a "leader". But I think the guy has more value than some are giving credit for on here. And I think if he puts up big numbers to start the year, he could be an attractive trade target for other teams which might bring us an asset back.

Those guys have "won" the baseball discussion.

When they win and it takes over basketball... I'm out. I can't agree with that. Anybody who has ever played basketball couldn't possibly agree with that either.

I think people will believe in whatever they want to believe in, so I won't get into a whole debate about it. But yes, "clutch" has generally been dismissed in baseball but it took a long time to do that. However for the believers, here's an interesting read on the best and worst clutch performers last year. (Spoiler alert - no Wolves mentioned on either list): http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25123815/the-nbas-best-and-worst-clutch-shooters-in-2014-15