Changed view of what I want from my sports teams

[Monster]

Maybe it's being beaten down by how awful the Wolves have been in particular but I am tired of championship or bust type thinking. I want to see my sports teams play good teamwork play the game well compete etc. I want the Wolves to be a good basketball team and I would be content to see some good basketball players come together and become a playoff team. If they don't have quite what it takes for a contender that's fine of they are playing good basketball.

I'm not advocating mediocre teams but I'm tired of boom or bust stuff. I guess for the Wolves and the Twins it would be nice to actually see a legit product out there that you can have some pride in. Mostly it's been pretty awful. I'd be thrilled to have a team that was a little better than decent. In the west that means over .500 which quite frankly is no small accomplishment in that conference.

I'm not sure I articulated well what I mean but really I want to see the Wolves play some good basketball and maybe it will result in a WCF run someday or maybe not even that far idk but man just an 8th seed team sounds amazing right now. Sigh

[zigzag22 [enjin:6591633]]

This sounds like a man who has hit rock bottom haha......but I do feel you on some aspects.

[thedoper]

I agree with this sentiment mostly. I want to see good basketball. I do believe we have made some blunders in terms of personel but am confident this roster moving forward is capable of some good ball. I am fine with bringing in one more kid then making moves for refinement rather than wallowing in the myre forever.

[WildWolf2813]

I'm a Yankee fan and I live in the town that birthed the title or bust mentality.

I don't place those expectations on the Wolves because realistically this team will never win it all. Once it starts to feel like realistically they'll never make it back to the playoffs, then I wash my hands of this team completely, and that day gets closer every day.

[TheGrey08]

I'm a Yankee fan and I live in the town that birthed the title or bust mentality.

I don't place those expectations on the Wolves because realistically this team will never win it all. Once it starts to feel like realistically they'll never make it back to the playoffs, then I wash my hands of this team completely, and that day gets closer every day.

Oh man.. :sick: you just lost at least half your cool points.. I'm not sure being a Wolves fan makes up for being a Yankee fan.. That's pretty much the worst lol

[TheGrey08]

I hear ya Monster. There's too much boom/bust, good/bad, for/against mentality in society these days. If a player isn't good/great then they're garbage lol. I've always hated that type of thinking which is kinda where this name comes from. Most things in life reside in the in between aka the grey.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Amen. I've been thinking this for a couple years now. I've also been watching how teams end up at the top of the league and at the bottom, and it seems like those teams that bottom out, get top picks, and then reach the championship are extremely rare. I've even read a study from somebody who showed that teams like Dallas that keep consistently adding good vets and competing every year are the teams much more likely to win a championship than teams that bottom out for a few years and get high picks. At the very least, it takes much more than getting one or even a few top picks to become a good team.

Besides, bottoming out is no guarantee of getting a top pick. You could still get jumped and end up with the 4th, 5th, or 6th. And even if you do get a top pick, you've got to be lucky for them to pan out (seems like everybody thinks about the Stephen Curry types we missed rather than the busts and average players that are often taken very high). AND even if you do get lucky and get a really good player, you've still got to get several other good players, get a good coach, build chemistry, have a decent bench, make smart free agency acquisitions, avoid signing bad contracts, etc. in order to really be a threat in the playoffs. Everybody seems to be fine with tanking for a pick, but I think a lot of people overvalue those picks and I just don't think the benefits outweigh the costs.

And what are the costs?

It seems like every single year now for about 10 years this team has basically given up at the end of the season. At the same time, it's not surprising this team has also earned a reputation for giving up toward the end of games. This team has developed a losing culture and a reputation for being losers. A ton of high first round picks in the past 8 years hasn't changed that. Kevin Love didn't change that. Ricky Rubio hasn't changed that. It would be unfair to expect Wiggins to change that. And putting hope in Towns or Mudiay or anybody else in this draft to change that is also missing the bigger picture. It takes more than a couple high draft picks to turn things around. Even if we get the first and take Okafor (who looks like a sure thing), we'll need more than Wiggins and Okafor to win. And this is where I think we undervalue the importance of veterans, player development, coaching, team culture, etc.

Bottom line, it's shameful to be a Wolves fan. Will I feel good if we get Towns or Okafor (WCS would be nice too, and Russell definitely intrigues me) this summer? Sure. But I'd honestly feel better if there were some fight in this dog. In the bigger scheme of things, we've been like the Nuggets before they fired Brian Shaw for several years now (last year was kind of an exception). This team just seems to have given up.

I think in part, this team has a culture and a reputation for giving up because we (coaches, fans, reporters, everybody), give them an excuse and don't hold them accountable by focusing on our draft position instead of our performance on the court EVEN WHEN WE CAN'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. Some say that's when you might as well tank and hope for the best pick. I disagree. I think that's exactly when you find out what a team is made of.

It's just like in a game. You find out what a team is made of when they are down 20. And every season now, we've basically thrown in the towel at the end of the season, just like in so many games, we've thrown in the towel when we got behind. And I think part of what has allowed this mentality to creep in is our constant focus on the draft. As fans, we need to hold this team accountable. This season, the injuries are a somewhat legitimate excuse for our record. But they are not an excuse for our effort, which is unacceptable. Dreaming of Towns or Okafor or Mudiay or whoever in a Wolves jersey is not only a way of avoiding that hard truth, it's part of what has allowed this losing culture to take such deep roots.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Excellent post, monster...very well said. I think you have largely articulated what I feel. I get excited every pre-season for the Twins and Wolves, not because I expect them to compete for the championship, but because I expect them to be better, play decently, and challenge for a playoff spot. And then every 20 years or so, I get rewarded (at least in the Twins situation) with the thrill of a pennant run.

The only time I depart from these thoughts is in the dregs of a lost season, like right now. I still get excited if they play a really good game, but overall I'm more interested in draft position. But again, I don't want them to get a Karl Anthony Towns so that they can compete for a championship next year. I just want them to maximize their chances of adding another great piece.

And if they keep adding great pieces, maybe in 3-4 years...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I couldn't agree more with Monster and Drew's posts.

Building a competitive team is 85% skill, 15% luck. But building a championship team is probably at least 50% luck. First, the people who drafted Jordan, Kobe, Hakeem, Bird, and Magic didn't realize those guys would end up being THAT good. You can't predict whose going to be a Hall-of-Fame franchise player. Second, you also need to stay healthy to win a title, which requires a very big dose of luck.

But it shouldn't be this difficult to build a competitive team and culture. Folding up shop at the end of so many seasons, like Drew mentions above, is a cause just as much as it is a symptom of the losing culture that has taken hold of this franchise.

[Coolbreeze44]

From Drew:

I think in part, this team has a culture and a reputation for giving up because we (coaches, fans, reporters, everybody), give them an excuse and don't hold them accountable by focusing on our draft position instead of our performance on the court EVEN WHEN WE CAN'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. Some say that's when you might as well tank and hope for the best pick. I disagree. I think that's exactly when you find out what a team is made of.

Tremendous point. I'll never be a fan in the hopes we can just be competitive. I'm just not wired that way. But the point Drew makes here is so true and I love the way he states it.