Camden0916 wrote:In a vacuum, I'd 100% trade our pick (even No. 1) for Boogie. I just don't think that's necessarily the smart play based on these two factors:
1. While Boogie's still young at 24/25, our supposed star is just 20 years old and not ready to be a star yet. I think we need another star prospect that can grow up WITH Wiggins. Not to mention it'd be wise to go for the potential 9 years of team control as opposed to whatever's left of Cousins' deal. The last thing we need is to be in the K-Love situation again.
2. I'm not so sure Boogie would be happy here. We're not as far along as Sacramento in terms of winning/competing, as sad as that sounds. Our potential is much higher, but it's likely not a plan that Cousins wants to play through some more. As we've seen with Love and even Young, guys want to win while they're in their prime, and if they can't, they'll do what's necessary to get on the proper situation to win (playoffs).
On the second point, that is why Malone would be the coach the one cousins respects
Camden0916 wrote:In a vacuum, I'd 100% trade our pick (even No. 1) for Boogie. I just don't think that's necessarily the smart play based on these two factors:
1. While Boogie's still young at 24/25, our supposed star is just 20 years old and not ready to be a star yet. I think we need another star prospect that can grow up WITH Wiggins. Not to mention it'd be wise to go for the potential 9 years of team control as opposed to whatever's left of Cousins' deal. The last thing we need is to be in the K-Love situation again.
2. I'm not so sure Boogie would be happy here. We're not as far along as Sacramento in terms of winning/competing, as sad as that sounds. Our potential is much higher, but it's likely not a plan that Cousins wants to play through some more. As we've seen with Love and even Young, guys want to win while they're in their prime, and if they can't, they'll do what's necessary to get on the proper situation to win (playoffs).
On the second point, that is why Malone would be the coach the one cousins respects
I get the point you're making. As a comparison that's close to heart, I think Love really like(s)(ed) Adelman. He put him in the best spots to succeed and get touches abundantly. It wasn't enough, though, because we weren't winning (playoffs). Could be the same thing with Cousins, with or without Malone.
Camden0916 wrote:In a vacuum, I'd 100% trade our pick (even No. 1) for Boogie. I just don't think that's necessarily the smart play based on these two factors:
1. While Boogie's still young at 24/25, our supposed star is just 20 years old and not ready to be a star yet. I think we need another star prospect that can grow up WITH Wiggins. Not to mention it'd be wise to go for the potential 9 years of team control as opposed to whatever's left of Cousins' deal. The last thing we need is to be in the K-Love situation again.
2. I'm not so sure Boogie would be happy here. We're not as far along as Sacramento in terms of winning/competing, as sad as that sounds. Our potential is much higher, but it's likely not a plan that Cousins wants to play through some more. As we've seen with Love and even Young, guys want to win while they're in their prime, and if they can't, they'll do what's necessary to get on the proper situation to win (playoffs).
For point 1 you take the sure thing in Cousins over anyone in this draft. The top guys in this draft would still be going behind Wiggins and Parker and if he would have been healthy Embiid. Wiggins is still a potential star. Cousins is a star. 9 years of control is nice, but only if you get someone guaranteed to be better than Cousins which is highly unlikely. Otherwise we would still need to get another star and that piece will likely have to be used to get one anyway.
For part 2 the guy has been loyal to a fault to Sacramento during all the crap they've put him through. All you need to offer him is a shot at the playoffs which he'll have here and organizational stability of which the Spurs are really the only more stable organization than the country club sadly especially if Flip and KG buy the team from Glenn.
Camden0916 wrote:In a vacuum, I'd 100% trade our pick (even No. 1) for Boogie. I just don't think that's necessarily the smart play based on these two factors:
1. While Boogie's still young at 24/25, our supposed star is just 20 years old and not ready to be a star yet. I think we need another star prospect that can grow up WITH Wiggins. Not to mention it'd be wise to go for the potential 9 years of team control as opposed to whatever's left of Cousins' deal. The last thing we need is to be in the K-Love situation again.
2. I'm not so sure Boogie would be happy here. We're not as far along as Sacramento in terms of winning/competing, as sad as that sounds. Our potential is much higher, but it's likely not a plan that Cousins wants to play through some more. As we've seen with Love and even Young, guys want to win while they're in their prime, and if they can't, they'll do what's necessary to get on the proper situation to win (playoffs).
On the second point, that is why Malone would be the coach the one cousins respects
I get the point you're making. As a comparison that's close to heart, I think Love really like(s)(ed) Adelman. He put him in the best spots to succeed and get touches abundantly. It wasn't enough, though, because we weren't winning (playoffs). Could be the same thing with Cousins, with or without Malone.
I understand the point you are making also but I would be disappointed if the wolves couldn't make the playoffs with a lineup of Rubio/Martin/Wiggins/KG/Cousins With Shabazz, Pek, Lavine and Payne coming off the bench
Camden0916 wrote:In a vacuum, I'd 100% trade our pick (even No. 1) for Boogie. I just don't think that's necessarily the smart play based on these two factors:
1. While Boogie's still young at 24/25, our supposed star is just 20 years old and not ready to be a star yet. I think we need another star prospect that can grow up WITH Wiggins. Not to mention it'd be wise to go for the potential 9 years of team control as opposed to whatever's left of Cousins' deal. The last thing we need is to be in the K-Love situation again.
2. I'm not so sure Boogie would be happy here. We're not as far along as Sacramento in terms of winning/competing, as sad as that sounds. Our potential is much higher, but it's likely not a plan that Cousins wants to play through some more. As we've seen with Love and even Young, guys want to win while they're in their prime, and if they can't, they'll do what's necessary to get on the proper situation to win (playoffs).
For point 1 you take the sure thing in Cousins over anyone in this draft. The top guys in this draft would still be going behind Wiggins and Parker and if he would have been healthy Embiid. Wiggins is still a potential star. Cousins is a star. 9 years of control is nice, but only if you get someone guaranteed to be better than Cousins which is highly unlikely. Otherwise we would still need to get another star and that piece will likely have to be used to get one anyway.
For part 2 the guy has been loyal to a fault to Sacramento during all the crap they've put him through. All you need to offer him is a shot at the playoffs which he'll have here and organizational stability of which the Spurs are really the only more stable organization than the country club sadly especially if Flip and KG buy the team from Glenn.
How do you sell him on having more of a shot at the playoffs here?
Well, let's see what we know for sure about Cousins:
1) Consistently puts up terrific stats on a bad team
2) Mercurial personality and periodically creates controversy, and seems to struggle with teammate relationships.
3) Has not been to the playoffs in his entire career.
Hmm...reminds me of someone, but I can't quite think of who.
Camden0916 wrote:In a vacuum, I'd 100% trade our pick (even No. 1) for Boogie. I just don't think that's necessarily the smart play based on these two factors:
1. While Boogie's still young at 24/25, our supposed star is just 20 years old and not ready to be a star yet. I think we need another star prospect that can grow up WITH Wiggins. Not to mention it'd be wise to go for the potential 9 years of team control as opposed to whatever's left of Cousins' deal. The last thing we need is to be in the K-Love situation again.
2. I'm not so sure Boogie would be happy here. We're not as far along as Sacramento in terms of winning/competing, as sad as that sounds. Our potential is much higher, but it's likely not a plan that Cousins wants to play through some more. As we've seen with Love and even Young, guys want to win while they're in their prime, and if they can't, they'll do what's necessary to get on the proper situation to win (playoffs).
For point 1 you take the sure thing in Cousins over anyone in this draft. The top guys in this draft would still be going behind Wiggins and Parker and if he would have been healthy Embiid. Wiggins is still a potential star. Cousins is a star. 9 years of control is nice, but only if you get someone guaranteed to be better than Cousins which is highly unlikely. Otherwise we would still need to get another star and that piece will likely have to be used to get one anyway.
For part 2 the guy has been loyal to a fault to Sacramento during all the crap they've put him through. All you need to offer him is a shot at the playoffs which he'll have here and organizational stability of which the Spurs are really the only more stable organization than the country club sadly especially if Flip and KG buy the team from Glenn.
How do you sell him on having more of a shot at the playoffs here?
We have a better PG, SG, and possibly SF and he would become the C. PF is a wash and we'll have better depth. Yes we've been bad this year, but when fully healthy we were a .500 team and we'd be adding an all-star C. What does he have in Sacramento? Gay and that's about it. Collison is nice, but he is a backup PG. I don't know what to tell you if you think Sacramento has a better outlook next year and into the future than us. If it costs us a top pick, Dieng and AB like the proposed deal in the thread we only lose our backup C who would be replaced by Pek who's our normal starting C anyway and who's a better player than Dieng.
I love Cousins talent. All I can say is that Cousins has a reputation among NBA insiders as a really bad seed and a toxic presence in the locker room. I've never heard any specifics, but I've heard the general take on him from folks in the Wolves organization. So I can't see the Wolves doing a deal for Cousins.
I suspect that Flip will shop our pick and that he'd like to deal it, but I hope he declines anything short of a stellar offer. And I sure hope Flip doesn't use the pick as an inducement for a team to take Pek in exchange for a mediocre talent. I have a hard time envisioning a scenario where we would get a top young proven talent in exchange for our pick unless the player we get back has some serious character baggage.
I sense a a growing level of impatience among the fan base. That's understandable. I just hope that Flip remains patient. If this franchise is going to rise from the ashes it's going to rise around Andrew Wiggins. Here's what that mean:
1. The Wolves front office and coaching staff need to do everything they can to assure that Wiggins reaches his full potential
2. The front office needs to get the right head coach and coaching staff in place to (a) establish an appropriate, effective offensive system for today's NBA, (b) establish something at least resembling a defensive presence, which doesn't require the addition of another star, and (c) put our one other potential star, LaVine, in a position to succeed, which means ending the silly PG experiment and instead playing him at the position he's naturually suited to and the one he played in college.
3. The front office needs to continue accumulating young talent who will begin to hit their stride around the same time as Wiggins and LaVine - i.e., 2 - 3 years from now. And this includes putting talent ahead of perceived positional needs or skill sets. It also probably means keeping our 1st round pick this year unless we can somehow get a player like Drummond or Oladipo in return. Keep in mind that we won't even have a first round pick in two of the next 4 drafts after this year.
If we end up in the top 4 this year, I would expect us to take and keep Okafor, Towns, Mudiay or Russell. If we end up in the 5th or 6th slot and none of the above are available then I'd consider trading the pick - trading down for a lower first round pick and a solid rotation player.
Lip is correct about Cousins' reputation around the league...he has to be in the Top Five of players GMs are wary of. The Wolves passed on him in the draft because of character issues even though he had much more ability than the guy we picked, and nothing in his behavior to date has changed any minds. Flip is clearly trying to build a team that is both talented and cohesive, and Cousins doesn't help with one of those goals.
