This is Ricky's team now

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

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I think this phrase still rings true. I've always said it, and I'm sure a lot on this board have as well. Kevin Love is our best player. Ricky Rubio is our most important player.

What does that even mean? Is "leadership" really more important then 26-14-5?

Certainly is. Spurs proved this is a team game. Rubio make this team go. They have sucked whenever he has not played and been decent when he does. They have always sucked with Love didn't play with Rubio.

This narrative that Love isn't a team player is absolute BS. So the Wolves have been decent with Rubio at PG...well thats pretty obvious since he is the only PG that Love has played with thats anything better than a fringe starter at best. I loved the threads that were bumped about Love and now people are on Ricky cause he is the guy when almost everyone just a few weeks ago was down on him moving forward. Get a grip people. Love sucks can't lead a team ball stopper not a team guy...Rubio is who we are building around he can be the guy. If Rubio is the guy people are getting excited about in this thread and actually shows that this season then Love isn't going to leave next summer book it. Serious.

I am not saying Love is not a team player. I am just saying he doesn't impact the game as much as Rubio does. A lot of that is just the importance of the PG position vs PF. The other is that Rubio is a 2 way player where Love is lucky to be an average defender.

Rubio isn't a 2 way player. Love's defense is better then rubios offense. Love's offense is also better then Rubio's defense

This is laughable. I know you like to stretch to make your points from time to time, but come on now. Awful.

Ricky is below average offensively< Love's average defensively

Love top 5 offensive player> Ricky's good on D but not top 5 in the NBA

Not quite sure where the stretch is. I like Ricky too, but using terms like "leadership" "making teammates better" "more important" which have no substance behind them to try to justify Rubio over Love, because Love is out the door is silly. Love is the guy, by any term, the guy you pick when starting a team, over Rubio. 10 times out of 10. If your trying to win of course

Love's defensive impact is not superior to Rubio's offensive impact. That's the one that I'm baffled by. Actually, I hate your comparison altogether. Should be comparing offense to offense and defense to defense.

Love's a top-10 (top-five in my opinion) player in the NBA. He's the only player in the history of the NBA that has his skillset. Star player and I love his game. Regardless of all this, the Wolves are a better team when Rubio has the ball. Why? He creates off the dribble. He creates for himself (sometimes), but mainly he creates good opportunities for everyone else, including Love. That's the nature of the positions they play. So yeah, Love is a superior offensive weapon, but Rubio's impact is still significantly positive as well. Love > Rubio

These two are on completely different levels defensively, though. Rubio's one of, if not the best, top defenders in the NBA at the point guard position. Love's average on defense, as you said. Rubio's disruptive nature creates easy scoring opportunities for teammates. He's also the best rebounding point guard in the NBA, along with being the best at collecting steals. A really underrated part of his defense is taking charges because he shuffles his feet into great position. All effort with him. Love's P&R defense is awful and so is his help D, though his defensing rebounding ends possessions for opponents. Rubio >>> Love.

Rubio can greatly impact the game on both ends of the floor. He's the team leader. He raises the play of teammates greatly, even more-so than Love. His potential is what keeps hope alive for this franchise. At 23, Rubio will be able to keep improving his scoring ability, as he's shown through three seasons. Love will never be able to impact the game on defense like Rubio, no matter how much he improves.

So back to my initial statements. Love's the best player we have, but Rubio's the most important player we have.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

Rubio isn't a 2 way player. Love's defense is better then rubios offense. Love's offense is also better then Rubio's defense

[Porckchop]

If Rickys considered a good two way player becuz hes a great passer, then Loves a good two way player cuz hes a great defensive rebounder.
If u cant put the ball in the hole I cant consider u anything more than an average overall player.
Plenty of players have been considered great based soley on their ability to score the ball. How many players were ever considered good but couldnt?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"As opposed to what with Love?

Rubios offensive impact. I mean come on, he's on pace to be the worst shooting guard in history. He had like 2 FG in the 4th quarter for like half the seasons. That's not bad offense, that's historic bad offense. If you want to include assists and team offense with Rubio that's ok. But on the other side, you'll have to credit Love's elite rebounding and not fouling to his defensive game.

Let's face it, you replace Rubio with let's say Ty Lawson, a middle of the pack pg, and the Wolves probably don't miss much of a beat. You replace Love with a middle of the pack pf, like a David West, and the Wolves are much much worse. There's PG out there who would make the Wolves better. There isn't a PF in the league that would make the wolves better."

I already gave credit to Love's defensive rebounding. I will not give credit to him for not fouling, though. I believe Love and Adelman shared the belief that Love could not even take a risk of fouling, due to our terrible bench. We needed Love on the court. So, how many times did we see Love watch a player make a layup instead of giving up a hard foul or contesting the shot well? I'd much rather see that instead of a wide open, no effort to contest it, layup. Love watching/allowing layups is not the same positive effect as Rubio's playmaking on offense.

And like most on the board do, we find our way back to Rubio's scoring ability, or lack thereof. He's gotten better. Maybe not at the rate we all hoped for, but it could be argued that Adelman's system didn't give him the freedom he required to be as aggressive as possible as a scorer. Put him in high screen and roll and let him operate. Instead, Adelman had him pass the ball to Brewer or Martin, run to the corner, come get the ball again, only to give it to Love/Pek at the elbow and play off ball. How in the hell is that a good offensive fit for Rubio?

(I'd like to remind you, Alex, that you changed your argument from "Love's defense is better than Rubio's offense" to just another "Rubio sucks and he can't score" debate. Good for you. The all-time Wolves pessimist.)

Ty Lawson's a middle of the pack point guard only because that's the NBA's deepest position. If you're telling me that you don't appreciate 18 PPG and 9 APG, then I really question your basketball intellect. Really weak stance to take.

You also just made my point for me. The Wolves already have the best power forward in the league, and can't make the playoffs. What did I say? Were you even paying attention? Caps lock might help. KEVIN LOVE IS OUR BEST PLAYER. What's it going to take for this team to take the next level? Continued improvement and the play of Ricky Rubio, who IS OUR MOST IMPORTANT PLAYER.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

I guess I don't understand the difference between the best player and more important player.

If there was a draft I'd pick Love first

If there was a draft for one season I'd choose Love

If there was a draft for one game I'd choose Love

If there was a draft for the future I'd choose Love

I thought winning was the most important thing. Isn't Love the guy you choose if you want to win if there was a choice between him and Rubio?

I guess Rubio is the more likable player for sure. If there's a way to show the correlation between likable and wins, i'd like to see it

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Cam's argument is like saying Lebron is the Heat's best player, but Wade/Bosh are more important players because it takes more than one player to win in this league. I just don't agree with that kind of thought process. Without Lebron and without Love the teams do nothing with those "more important" players which should show you just how non-important they are compared to the best player. The team stats show that our team is much worse with both off the floor offensively (11 and 12 points worse when Love and Ricky are off the floor) and our team defense is virtually the same off the floor (0 and 1 point worse with Love and Ricky off the floor). You can say Ricky is a very good defender, but PG defense does next to nothing to impact team defense. We are 1 point per 100 possessions worse with Ricky off the floor than on. That is not enough to say he is a big difference maker on that end of the floor. I agree with the thought process of who would you draft, take, etc. if you had to pick one or the other. That to me tells the story of who is better and more important because it tells you who is more valuable to the team in general in the context of starting a team, building a team and winning with a team. No GM is taking Ricky over Love when starting their team and that should show who is better and more important to the short and long-term outlook of the franchise.