lipoli390 wrote:Teague v Schroeder? Teague is the better player in my view. Jeff is a better shooter than Dennis and a better teammate. However, Schroeder is 4 years younger than Teague and is probably just entering his prime as he turns 26 in September. Schroeder also has a nastiness or edge in his game that this team probably needs. And I'm concerned about Teague's ability to stay healthy. So it's a tough call. I'd lean slightly towards Schroeder.
Tyus v. Ricky? As you all know, I'm a big Ricky fan. I like his defense and rebounding as well as his playmaking. But his long track record as a starting PG over many years leaves no doubt that he's a bad shooter. He's never been a good 3-point shooter in season for his entire playing career. In contrast. Tyus was a 38% 3-point shooting in his one college season. And he hasn't had a lot of consistent playing time yet in the NBA. I'll refer again to Lowry and Kemba Walker as two PGs who went from bad to very good 3-point shooters suddenly in their 5th seasons. The ability to at least be a 3-point threat as a guard or wing is so important in today's game that I'd take Tyus over Ricky because I think Tyus will be a decent 3-point shooter whereas Ricky has shown definitively that he won't.
The way you're talking about Tyus, the team should just make him the starter then and throw him in the deep end of the pool.
lipoli390 wrote:Teague v Schroeder? Teague is the better player in my view. Jeff is a better shooter than Dennis and a better teammate. However, Schroeder is 4 years younger than Teague and is probably just entering his prime as he turns 26 in September. Schroeder also has a nastiness or edge in his game that this team probably needs. And I'm concerned about Teague's ability to stay healthy. So it's a tough call. I'd lean slightly towards Schroeder.
Tyus v. Ricky? As you all know, I'm a big Ricky fan. I like his defense and rebounding as well as his playmaking. But his long track record as a starting PG over many years leaves no doubt that he's a bad shooter. He's never been a good 3-point shooter in season for his entire playing career. In contrast. Tyus was a 38% 3-point shooting in his one college season. And he hasn't had a lot of consistent playing time yet in the NBA. I'll refer again to Lowry and Kemba Walker as two PGs who went from bad to very good 3-point shooters suddenly in their 5th seasons. The ability to at least be a 3-point threat as a guard or wing is so important in today's game that I'd take Tyus over Ricky because I think Tyus will be a decent 3-point shooter whereas Ricky has shown definitively that he won't.
The way you're talking about Tyus, the team should just make him the starter then and throw him in the deep end of the pool.
The team probably should have done that last year. At this point, I'm just explaining why I'd choose Tyus over Ricky if that were my choice and why I'd be inclined to re-sign Tyus depending on the price. He's a smart player and a good defender who protects the ball, runs the offense well makes the team better when he's playing. His main drawback so far is his 3-point shooting, but I'm suggesting there's reason to believe he can and likely will improve in that area based on his college 3-point percentage and examples of really good 3-point shooters in the NBA who were no better than Tyus from behind the arc in their first four years in the NBA. It's definitely not a sure thing by any stretch, which is why I wouldn't break the bank to keep him. But I'd do everything within reason to persuade him to return and I'd give him a legitimate shot at starting. At a minimum, I'd make him a regular part of the rotation with a predictable and consistent 25-30 minutes per game.
lipoli390 wrote:Teague v Schroeder? Teague is the better player in my view. Jeff is a better shooter than Dennis and a better teammate. However, Schroeder is 4 years younger than Teague and is probably just entering his prime as he turns 26 in September. Schroeder also has a nastiness or edge in his game that this team probably needs. And I'm concerned about Teague's ability to stay healthy. So it's a tough call. I'd lean slightly towards Schroeder.
Tyus v. Ricky? As you all know, I'm a big Ricky fan. I like his defense and rebounding as well as his playmaking. But his long track record as a starting PG over many years leaves no doubt that he's a bad shooter. He's never been a good 3-point shooter in season for his entire playing career. In contrast. Tyus was a 38% 3-point shooting in his one college season. And he hasn't had a lot of consistent playing time yet in the NBA. I'll refer again to Lowry and Kemba Walker as two PGs who went from bad to very good 3-point shooters suddenly in their 5th seasons. The ability to at least be a 3-point threat as a guard or wing is so important in today's game that I'd take Tyus over Ricky because I think Tyus will be a decent 3-point shooter whereas Ricky has shown definitively that he won't.
The way you're talking about Tyus, the team should just make him the starter then and throw him in the deep end of the pool.
The team probably should have done that last year. At this point, I'm just explaining why I'd choose Tyus over Ricky if that were my choice and why I'd be inclined to re-sign Tyus depending on the price. He's a smart player and a good defender who protects the ball, runs the offense well makes the team better when he's playing. His main drawback so far is his 3-point shooting, but I'm suggesting there's reason to believe he can and likely will improve in that area based on his college 3-point percentage and examples of really good 3-point shooters in the NBA who were no better than Tyus from behind the arc in their first four years in the NBA. It's definitely not a sure thing by any stretch, which is why I wouldn't break the bank to keep him. But I'd do everything within reason to persuade him to return and I'd give him a legitimate shot at starting. At a minimum, I'd make him a regular part of the rotation with a predictable and consistent 25-30 minutes per game.
Tyus is just too far along in his NBA career to be using any college metrics at this point. 38% college 3 pt is deep mid-range in the NBA, not 3 pt range so it really shouldn't be an argument for his potential in that regard anymore. He doesn't like shooting the ball and he's not good shooting the ball. He shot 32% from 3 last year with his highest volume and most playing time in his career. His peak was 35-36% which is average, but given it was on 1.5 shots per game it just doesn't matter. He simply has a mentality issue with shooting the ball and it leads to inconsistency and a lack of volume where it really doesn't matter if you shoot 36% from 3 if it's not even 2 shots a game. More minutes isn't going to change his mentality to be more aggressive. He already should be more aggressive on the second unit and he isn't which is why we had to bring in guy's like Crawford and Rose. I just don't think we have the pieces that work with the player he is. Same with Rubio.
lipoli390 wrote:Teague v Schroeder? Teague is the better player in my view. Jeff is a better shooter than Dennis and a better teammate. However, Schroeder is 4 years younger than Teague and is probably just entering his prime as he turns 26 in September. Schroeder also has a nastiness or edge in his game that this team probably needs. And I'm concerned about Teague's ability to stay healthy. So it's a tough call. I'd lean slightly towards Schroeder.
Tyus v. Ricky? As you all know, I'm a big Ricky fan. I like his defense and rebounding as well as his playmaking. But his long track record as a starting PG over many years leaves no doubt that he's a bad shooter. He's never been a good 3-point shooter in season for his entire playing career. In contrast. Tyus was a 38% 3-point shooting in his one college season. And he hasn't had a lot of consistent playing time yet in the NBA. I'll refer again to Lowry and Kemba Walker as two PGs who went from bad to very good 3-point shooters suddenly in their 5th seasons. The ability to at least be a 3-point threat as a guard or wing is so important in today's game that I'd take Tyus over Ricky because I think Tyus will be a decent 3-point shooter whereas Ricky has shown definitively that he won't.
The way you're talking about Tyus, the team should just make him the starter then and throw him in the deep end of the pool.
The team probably should have done that last year. At this point, I'm just explaining why I'd choose Tyus over Ricky if that were my choice and why I'd be inclined to re-sign Tyus depending on the price. He's a smart player and a good defender who protects the ball, runs the offense well makes the team better when he's playing. His main drawback so far is his 3-point shooting, but I'm suggesting there's reason to believe he can and likely will improve in that area based on his college 3-point percentage and examples of really good 3-point shooters in the NBA who were no better than Tyus from behind the arc in their first four years in the NBA. It's definitely not a sure thing by any stretch, which is why I wouldn't break the bank to keep him. But I'd do everything within reason to persuade him to return and I'd give him a legitimate shot at starting. At a minimum, I'd make him a regular part of the rotation with a predictable and consistent 25-30 minutes per game.
Tyus is just too far along in his NBA career to be using any college metrics at this point. 38% college 3 pt is deep mid-range in the NBA, not 3 pt range so it really shouldn't be an argument for his potential in that regard anymore. He doesn't like shooting the ball and he's not good shooting the ball. He shot 32% from 3 last year with his highest volume and most playing time in his career. His peak was 35-36% which is average, but given it was on 1.5 shots per game it just doesn't matter. He simply has a mentality issue with shooting the ball and it leads to inconsistency and a lack of volume where it really doesn't matter if you shoot 36% from 3 if it's not even 2 shots a game. More minutes isn't going to change his mentality to be more aggressive. He already should be more aggressive on the second unit and he isn't which is why we had to bring in guy's like Crawford and Rose. I just don't think we have the pieces that work with the player he is. Same with Rubio.
This is a good post. I agree that's it's a mentality thing. I've also said that playing with guys like Crawford and Rose both help and maybe hurt Tyus. Having a ball handler shot creator helps make up for his weaknesses but it also doesn't give him the opportunity to utilize his strengths and try out or be forced to actually be aggressive. I think the lack of consistent playing time is a worthwhile consideration in terms of volume of shots he takes. It would be interesting to see him play in a system that used him more and he got more consistent minutes. I think Tyus is capable of being more aggressive offensively BUT I also admit it's far from a sure thing. I don't think the door is closed on Tyus being a guy that can actually be a threat to score but if it was my job on the line I wouldn't exactly be betting a whole lot on that. It will be interesting to see what the market is for meh/fringe starting level PG's like Rubio Collison Joseph George Hill etc. I think the numbers they get are gonna be fairly low and someone (or maybe a couple guys) may end up without a starting spot when the music ends.
Which brings me back to the Teague Schoder question. Like lip I think I would lean towards taking a chance on Schoder. As it was suggested in an earlier post OKC may need to sweeten the deal to take on that 15 million of his last year of his deal. That may be too much for what he is. I have no idea if either team would have any interest at all (I kinda doubt OKC would) I just saw it proposed by a writer in his breakdown of all the teams offseasons. Schoder is an example of maybe taking a bit of a swing on getting a young PG that is a legit threat to score...although an inefficient one. He has played 39 playoff games also.
Do I want Tyus Jones back? Sure
Do I want us to make an effort to sign Rubio? Yes
If contracts are the same would I sign Rubio or Jones? Rubio
What would keep you from resigning Tyus? Us bidding against ourselves and driving his price up. (We do this frequently)
Trading Teague for Schroder would save the Wolves about $3.5 million this season, but the team would be stuck with Schroder's $15.5 million contract the following year. That might be fine if Schroder's game takes a big leap, but it's definitely a financial risk for the Wolves to swap Teague for Schroder. So OKC would have to sweeten the pot to make the deal reasonable for the Wolves. So how about Teague for Schroder and OKC's 20th pick in this year's draft?
I don't want Schroder on this team. Just seems like a bad clubhouse fit. I would take Jones at 5M a year over either. The big thing with Jones for me is he doesn't hurt you when he is on the floor. That might not seem like a ringing endorsement, but as a Wolves fan that is compelling.
lipoli390 wrote:Trading Teague for Schroder would save the Wolves about $3.5 million this season, but the team would be stuck with Schroder's $15.5 million contract the following year. That might be fine if Schroder's game takes a big leap, but it's definitely a financial risk for the Wolves to swap Teague for Schroder. So OKC would have to sweeten the pot to make the deal reasonable for the Wolves. So how about Teague for Schroder and OKC's 20th pick in this year's draft?
I'd do that without hesitation. Other options that might be more realistic IF OKC had any interest in this deal would be:
#21 and Schröder for Teague and #43.
The Bulls 2nd rounder in 2020.
Another 3.5 million this offseason might help you afford another player. With the extra space maybe front load a deal for Tyus.
Bleed has a valid concern about whether Schröder is a good fit here. That would have to be vetted out. Interestingly Teague and him are good friends and it would be kinda funny if they were traded for each other. Ultimately I don't think OKC would want to do the deal. Schröder is a rough approximation of what Westbrook already does. That team is already built that way why not have another guy that can do it. I don't see what teague brings other than a bit more of a PG mentality (and cap relief in a year) but with injury concerns. I think this type of deal is the type of stuff you have to be looking at though if you are Rosas and the Wolves new front office. I still think if healthy (sadly that is a question now) Teague could bounce back and offer much more value than we have seen in his 2 years here. It's a plus we know he is willing to play a lesser role if asked to do so...heck he has actually campaigned for it.
lipoli390 wrote:Trading Teague for Schroder would save the Wolves about $3.5 million this season, but the team would be stuck with Schroder's $15.5 million contract the following year. That might be fine if Schroder's game takes a big leap, but it's definitely a financial risk for the Wolves to swap Teague for Schroder. So OKC would have to sweeten the pot to make the deal reasonable for the Wolves. So how about Teague for Schroder and OKC's 20th pick in this year's draft?
I'd do that without hesitation. Other options that might be more realistic IF OKC had any interest in this deal would be:
#21 and Schröder for Teague and #43.
The Bulls 2nd rounder in 2020.
Another 3.5 million this offseason might help you afford another player. With the extra space maybe front load a deal for Tyus.
Bleed has a valid concern about whether Schröder is a good fit here. That would have to be vetted out. Interestingly Teague and him are good friends and it would be kinda funny if they were traded for each other. Ultimately I don't think OKC would want to do the deal. Schröder is a rough approximation of what Westbrook already does. That team is already built that way why not have another guy that can do it. I don't see what teague brings other than a bit more of a PG mentality (and cap relief in a year) but with injury concerns. I think this type of deal is the type of stuff you have to be looking at though if you are Rosas and the Wolves new front office. I still think if healthy (sadly that is a question now) Teague could bounce back and offer much more value than we have seen in his 2 years here. It's a plus we know he is willing to play a lesser role if asked to do so...heck he has actually campaigned for it.
Good analysis, Monster. I don't know how realistic my suggested deal is, but as you said it's the sort of deal the Wolves should be exploring. I think OKC would like to offload the final year of Schroder's salary. I think that's worth a lot to them. I also think they'd see Teague as an upgrade this season because of his superior outside shooting compared to Schroder. But like you, I'm not totally down on keeping Teague this season either. And his trade value might be higher at the Feb. trade deadline anyway.
