Keepers for Next Season
Keepers for Next Season
Finch has settled in with a 10-player rotation of Ricky, DLO, JMac, Ant, Okogie, McDaniels, KAT, Reid, Vando and Juancho. That rotation is playing well and seems to be buIdling some nice chemistry. Meanwhile, Beasley is out with an injury, but he was our best player by far when KAT and DLO were out. Nowell had some good games earlier this season. Of course, Culver's still on the team. All the aforementioned players, except Vando, are under contract next season.
So the question is this. Which players on the current roster do you think the Wolves should definitely keep for next season? I'm not asking who you think the Wolves WILL keep. I'm interested in your opinion on who we should keep. Here's my list:
1. DLO - The talent is there; it's a matter of consistent effort. We won't get adequate return value in trade
2. Beasley - He's the team's best 3-point shooter. He's highly competitive a plays hard.
3. Ant - He's been playing winning basketball since all-star break. Obviously has star potential
4. McDaniels - Probably steal of the draft. Perhaps our best defender already with all-star potential
5. KAT - An elite player who performs at an elite level every night.
6. Okogie - Excellent defender on team desperate for defense. High energy. Bargain contract
7. Reid - Best undrafted FA in Wolves history. Already very good w/bigger upside. Cheap contract
8. Vando - Super high energy disrupter. Sort of player every contender needs. Cheap contract
9. JMac - Teams plays faster & ball moves better than with Ricky. Pesky defender. Cheap.
10. Nowell - Still like his potential. Cheap contract and provides depth in case of injury.
11. Juancho - I'm coming around on this guy. We have a coach who knows how to use him.
I never thought I'd include Juancho on a list of keepers, but while I don't like his contract, I can see his talent and it looks like Finch knows how to use him. I'd be open to trading Beasley, but I wouldn't be eager to deal him and I'd drive a hard bargain in any negotiations.
The odd men out, in my view, are Ed Davis, Ricky Rubio and Culver. Davis is on an expiring deal. So the questions is whether we can get anything of value in return for Ricky and Culver. There might be teams interested in a solid veteran playmaking PG like Rick. And there might be some teams that still see potential in Culver with minimal risk as a one-season trial at $8 million.
So the question is this. Which players on the current roster do you think the Wolves should definitely keep for next season? I'm not asking who you think the Wolves WILL keep. I'm interested in your opinion on who we should keep. Here's my list:
1. DLO - The talent is there; it's a matter of consistent effort. We won't get adequate return value in trade
2. Beasley - He's the team's best 3-point shooter. He's highly competitive a plays hard.
3. Ant - He's been playing winning basketball since all-star break. Obviously has star potential
4. McDaniels - Probably steal of the draft. Perhaps our best defender already with all-star potential
5. KAT - An elite player who performs at an elite level every night.
6. Okogie - Excellent defender on team desperate for defense. High energy. Bargain contract
7. Reid - Best undrafted FA in Wolves history. Already very good w/bigger upside. Cheap contract
8. Vando - Super high energy disrupter. Sort of player every contender needs. Cheap contract
9. JMac - Teams plays faster & ball moves better than with Ricky. Pesky defender. Cheap.
10. Nowell - Still like his potential. Cheap contract and provides depth in case of injury.
11. Juancho - I'm coming around on this guy. We have a coach who knows how to use him.
I never thought I'd include Juancho on a list of keepers, but while I don't like his contract, I can see his talent and it looks like Finch knows how to use him. I'd be open to trading Beasley, but I wouldn't be eager to deal him and I'd drive a hard bargain in any negotiations.
The odd men out, in my view, are Ed Davis, Ricky Rubio and Culver. Davis is on an expiring deal. So the questions is whether we can get anything of value in return for Ricky and Culver. There might be teams interested in a solid veteran playmaking PG like Rick. And there might be some teams that still see potential in Culver with minimal risk as a one-season trial at $8 million.
Re: Keepers for Next Season
I am fine with losing any of Juancho, Ricky, Culver, Vando, Beasley, Nowell. Especially if it means acquiring more talent. Naz could end up being a really attractive trade chip even though it would pain me to see him go.
My only absolute keepers at this point are:
1. KAT
2. Ant
3. McDaniels
4. DLo (only because I dont see how they shed him)
Everyone else is fair game, and if McDaniels meant a legit all star I think you have to listen.
My only absolute keepers at this point are:
1. KAT
2. Ant
3. McDaniels
4. DLo (only because I dont see how they shed him)
Everyone else is fair game, and if McDaniels meant a legit all star I think you have to listen.
- Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Keepers for Next Season
Since we aren't talking about what we think the Wolves would do and only offer our opinion, then to me there is only one true keeper on this team and that's Jaden McDaniels. I just don't believe we'd get a fair return on a trade for him based on how I see his long-term value. He has huge upside.
Everyone else is fair game. That doesn't mean I'd advocate literally putting up the whole roster for sale, but basically I'd be open to taking calls on anyone but McDaniels.
Everyone else is fair game. That doesn't mean I'd advocate literally putting up the whole roster for sale, but basically I'd be open to taking calls on anyone but McDaniels.
- AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Keepers for Next Season
Value Rankings
1. Towns. Gifted offensively and a willing playmaker. Even has shown signs on defense, especially in space. Clearcut best player on the team. But after 6 seasons and many losses... is it more style than substance? Both sides of that debate have merit. He's a hollow sentiment quote machine, always saying the right things that don't always translate on the court. But his teammates have been so terrible... that he gets a justified pass. Keep.
2. McDaniels. I'm not as high on him as others... but I'm still sold. He's legit defensively, especially as he gets stronger and bigger. But I'm not seeing the offensive path to All Star status. And that's fine. The team already has too many gunners. His contract is a HUGE plus here. Only $10M through 2024. And then team control? The Wolves cap space makes any sort of even trade with him difficult unless he's added to unload a bad contract (see Russell). Keep.
3. Edwards. He does stuff other players can't do. The rub is that he also does stuff no NBA player should do. How much of it is rookie stuff... and how much of it is ingrained in the kid? No idea. On the plus side... he's improved A LOT as the season has gone on. That's a GREAT sign. On the negative side... he has to become a much smarter, unselfish player to win meaningful basketball games. To play it safe his ultimate value is somewhere in the middle. Keep. But open to trade.
4. Naz Reid. Only making $1.8M and $1.9M the next two seasons. Whoa. That's legit value for a solid offensive big off the bench. And there's no reason to assume he'll suddenly plateau. Keep. But open to trade for a different type of backup.
5. Beasley. If he avoids doing knuckleheaded things... there's value here. A 40% three point shooter making about $15M for the next 3 seasons? Sounds about right. I think it all adds up to him having the most trade juice moving forward. The contract works... his value works... his issues work. Predicting trade.
6. Nowell. A backup gunner who's on the books for Naz Reid money each of the next two seasons? Ok. That's fine. Keep but don't really care.
7. Okogie. $4M next season for a defense-first guy who stays out of the way on offense? Ummm... that's fine. There's a place for him on the team and it's not a cap-destroying deal. Keep but will probably change my mind after a 1 - 27 three point stretch.
8. Layman. Future trade fodder. Like Okogie, only makes about $4M next season. But he's behind Okogie because he's more of a stopgap guy than one who can do one thing better than most. He's serviceable with a serviceable contract. There's so much mehness to everything about Jake Layman. Meh. Obviously.
9. Hernangomez. Signs of life! I don't know if he's all that helpful for a good team. But one season of $7M isn't an albatross either. One very good run by Hernangomez could make that contract look inviting to another team... Only care if he gets traded and then goes 6 - 11 on threes for 31 points in his first game vs the Wolves.
10. Rubio. Hasn't been good enough. Not even close to earning his deal. But it's expiring next season... so that's why he isn't lower. There's value based on the cap sheet if nothing else for some tanking team? Problem is that the Wolves might be stuck with him at $18M for the first half of the season... Prefer it not to end the way it is...
11. Russell. This is not about talent. This is about value. And even at his best... I don't see him as a $30M+ guy over the next two seasons. He looks brilliant at times. But there are too many mailed-in performances. And the defense issues are inescapable. Can the negatives be masked by those around him? Or does the max contract guy negatively influence everybody else just enough? I'm just not certain how many other teams would consider him worthy of $30M... He's done nothing in his career yet to think that he's a legit marquee foundation for sustainable success. We all are attracted to certain players and styles. And conversely, we don't care for others. Ummm... ahem, ahem.
12. Culver. Due $8M next season. Rarely do top 6 picks not get the rookie extension. But Culver is staring that down right now. I don't see the ceiling for anybody else wasting $8M on him... when they can simply wait a year and get him for $2M or so. What has he done (other than get drafted high) to warrant the Promise of Hope tag? He's not "elite" at anything. He's not even potentially great at anything. He's objectively bad at many things these first two seasons. Seems nice enough. But not nearly good enough.
____
Vanderbilt and McLaughlin. Both offer value and would certainly be favorable on this list with their paltry current salaries. How much will it take to resign them? I think both have things to bring to a team... but I don't think either is irreplaceable in any way.
1. Towns. Gifted offensively and a willing playmaker. Even has shown signs on defense, especially in space. Clearcut best player on the team. But after 6 seasons and many losses... is it more style than substance? Both sides of that debate have merit. He's a hollow sentiment quote machine, always saying the right things that don't always translate on the court. But his teammates have been so terrible... that he gets a justified pass. Keep.
2. McDaniels. I'm not as high on him as others... but I'm still sold. He's legit defensively, especially as he gets stronger and bigger. But I'm not seeing the offensive path to All Star status. And that's fine. The team already has too many gunners. His contract is a HUGE plus here. Only $10M through 2024. And then team control? The Wolves cap space makes any sort of even trade with him difficult unless he's added to unload a bad contract (see Russell). Keep.
3. Edwards. He does stuff other players can't do. The rub is that he also does stuff no NBA player should do. How much of it is rookie stuff... and how much of it is ingrained in the kid? No idea. On the plus side... he's improved A LOT as the season has gone on. That's a GREAT sign. On the negative side... he has to become a much smarter, unselfish player to win meaningful basketball games. To play it safe his ultimate value is somewhere in the middle. Keep. But open to trade.
4. Naz Reid. Only making $1.8M and $1.9M the next two seasons. Whoa. That's legit value for a solid offensive big off the bench. And there's no reason to assume he'll suddenly plateau. Keep. But open to trade for a different type of backup.
5. Beasley. If he avoids doing knuckleheaded things... there's value here. A 40% three point shooter making about $15M for the next 3 seasons? Sounds about right. I think it all adds up to him having the most trade juice moving forward. The contract works... his value works... his issues work. Predicting trade.
6. Nowell. A backup gunner who's on the books for Naz Reid money each of the next two seasons? Ok. That's fine. Keep but don't really care.
7. Okogie. $4M next season for a defense-first guy who stays out of the way on offense? Ummm... that's fine. There's a place for him on the team and it's not a cap-destroying deal. Keep but will probably change my mind after a 1 - 27 three point stretch.
8. Layman. Future trade fodder. Like Okogie, only makes about $4M next season. But he's behind Okogie because he's more of a stopgap guy than one who can do one thing better than most. He's serviceable with a serviceable contract. There's so much mehness to everything about Jake Layman. Meh. Obviously.
9. Hernangomez. Signs of life! I don't know if he's all that helpful for a good team. But one season of $7M isn't an albatross either. One very good run by Hernangomez could make that contract look inviting to another team... Only care if he gets traded and then goes 6 - 11 on threes for 31 points in his first game vs the Wolves.
10. Rubio. Hasn't been good enough. Not even close to earning his deal. But it's expiring next season... so that's why he isn't lower. There's value based on the cap sheet if nothing else for some tanking team? Problem is that the Wolves might be stuck with him at $18M for the first half of the season... Prefer it not to end the way it is...
11. Russell. This is not about talent. This is about value. And even at his best... I don't see him as a $30M+ guy over the next two seasons. He looks brilliant at times. But there are too many mailed-in performances. And the defense issues are inescapable. Can the negatives be masked by those around him? Or does the max contract guy negatively influence everybody else just enough? I'm just not certain how many other teams would consider him worthy of $30M... He's done nothing in his career yet to think that he's a legit marquee foundation for sustainable success. We all are attracted to certain players and styles. And conversely, we don't care for others. Ummm... ahem, ahem.
12. Culver. Due $8M next season. Rarely do top 6 picks not get the rookie extension. But Culver is staring that down right now. I don't see the ceiling for anybody else wasting $8M on him... when they can simply wait a year and get him for $2M or so. What has he done (other than get drafted high) to warrant the Promise of Hope tag? He's not "elite" at anything. He's not even potentially great at anything. He's objectively bad at many things these first two seasons. Seems nice enough. But not nearly good enough.
____
Vanderbilt and McLaughlin. Both offer value and would certainly be favorable on this list with their paltry current salaries. How much will it take to resign them? I think both have things to bring to a team... but I don't think either is irreplaceable in any way.
- Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
- Posts: 13844
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Keepers for Next Season
Good assessment Abe. I largely agree with everything here. I'd be willing to trade KAT for another established player, but not sure if there is anything out there that works. His defense will always be a problem for this team. He has a deadly combination of poor technique and foul avoidance because he's the #1 offensive option. He's better than DLO for sure, but defense matters a lot more for a big than a PG.
I think McDaniels could benefit from a summer league of being a top offensive option. I think he's just going to keep getting better and better on that end, but I could be wrong.
I think McDaniels could benefit from a summer league of being a top offensive option. I think he's just going to keep getting better and better on that end, but I could be wrong.
- Coolbreeze44
- Posts: 13192
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Keepers for Next Season
Q12543 wrote:Good assessment Abe. I largely agree with everything here. I'd be willing to trade KAT for another established player, but not sure if there is anything out there that works. His defense will always be a problem for this team. He has a deadly combination of poor technique and foul avoidance because he's the #1 offensive option. He's better than DLO for sure, but defense matters a lot more for a big than a PG.
I think McDaniels could benefit from a summer league of being a top offensive option. I think he's just going to keep getting better and better on that end, but I could be wrong.
He's got to be developed on offense and standing in the weakside corner while Ant, DLO, and KAT trade shots isn't going to get it done. It would be fun to see him get a lot of run in the summer league.
Re: Keepers for Next Season
I generally agree with Abe's analysis.
But I wouldn't consider trading KAT. The Nuggets do fine built around a center who's not good defensively. Meanwhile KAT has improved defensively this season. It's up to Rosas to put enough and the right kind of talent around KAT to make this work. This team was headed for a 4th or 5th seed when KAT was paired with Butler, Gibson and Teague. If the Wolves can't make it work with KAT in the next two seasons, then they can and should trade him right before or during the last season of his contract. Until then, it's all about acquiring and developing talent around KAT. We have talent in DLO, Beasley, Ant and McDaniels. Whether that talent plus KAT translates into a playoff seed next season and an even better playoff seed the following season remains to be seen.
I agree with Abe that Beasley will probably be traded before next season. I'll go a step further and predict that Beasley will be swapped for John Collins in a sign-and-trade. Rosas never stops pursuing the guys he wants until he gets them. He wined and dined DLO in an effort to land him as a free agent. Rosas waited a year and then threw himself at the feet of the Warriors front office executives in an effort to bring DLO here on a max salary. That meant giving up both draft picks this year, taking on contracts that put the Wolves over the luxury tax line, and taking on another max contract. Of course, Rosas was obviously prepared to pay anything to keep Beasley and Juancho, his two other signature. Rosas apparently coveted John Collins leading up to this year's in-season trade deadline. We've seen enough of Rosas to know that he must still covet Collins. Beasley is the key to Rosas getting the guy he covets. Not sure what else we'll need to give up to get him.
But I wouldn't consider trading KAT. The Nuggets do fine built around a center who's not good defensively. Meanwhile KAT has improved defensively this season. It's up to Rosas to put enough and the right kind of talent around KAT to make this work. This team was headed for a 4th or 5th seed when KAT was paired with Butler, Gibson and Teague. If the Wolves can't make it work with KAT in the next two seasons, then they can and should trade him right before or during the last season of his contract. Until then, it's all about acquiring and developing talent around KAT. We have talent in DLO, Beasley, Ant and McDaniels. Whether that talent plus KAT translates into a playoff seed next season and an even better playoff seed the following season remains to be seen.
I agree with Abe that Beasley will probably be traded before next season. I'll go a step further and predict that Beasley will be swapped for John Collins in a sign-and-trade. Rosas never stops pursuing the guys he wants until he gets them. He wined and dined DLO in an effort to land him as a free agent. Rosas waited a year and then threw himself at the feet of the Warriors front office executives in an effort to bring DLO here on a max salary. That meant giving up both draft picks this year, taking on contracts that put the Wolves over the luxury tax line, and taking on another max contract. Of course, Rosas was obviously prepared to pay anything to keep Beasley and Juancho, his two other signature. Rosas apparently coveted John Collins leading up to this year's in-season trade deadline. We've seen enough of Rosas to know that he must still covet Collins. Beasley is the key to Rosas getting the guy he covets. Not sure what else we'll need to give up to get him.
- Wolvesfan21
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Re: Keepers for Next Season
I thought Culver was the teams best defender at times during his rookie season. He however has been as poor as JO on the offensive end (not good!). He could be a good role player if he was able to get minutes for a team with weak wing depth and start to make progress especially offensively. His upside is a solid 3/D player if he can start to knock down corner 3's with good efficiency.
Dude needs to wake up shoot 3's, eat breakfast, shoot 3's, eat lunch, shoot 3's, eat dinner, shoot 3's.
Dude needs to wake up shoot 3's, eat breakfast, shoot 3's, eat lunch, shoot 3's, eat dinner, shoot 3's.
- AbeVigodaLive
- Posts: 10272
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Keepers for Next Season
lipoli390 wrote:I generally agree with Abe's analysis.
But I wouldn't consider trading KAT.
I have him in the KEEP column. I think the addition/potential of Edwards helps immensely with any concerns around building around a center instead of a wing. IF he meets his potential, he's the guy you can give the ball too when they're fronting/doubling the post guy.
It's not entirely unlike the frustration so many people had during the Garnett years. It seemed so obvious what Garnett needed -- a brash, shot taking guard to relieve some of the pressure. Ironically, they had it immediately with Marbury... then we had to wait almost a decade for Cassell.
We'll see about the Collins stuff. I also wonder what else would be required in such a trade... Beasley won't be enough.
Re: Keepers for Next Season
AbeVigodaLive wrote:lipoli390 wrote:I generally agree with Abe's analysis.
But I wouldn't consider trading KAT.
I have him in the KEEP column. I think the addition/potential of Edwards helps immensely with any concerns around building around a center instead of a wing. IF he meets his potential, he's the guy you can give the ball too when they're fronting/doubling the post guy.
It's not entirely unlike the frustration so many people had during the Garnett years. It seemed so obvious what Garnett needed -- a brash, shot taking guard to relieve some of the pressure. Ironically, they had it immediately with Marbury... then we had to wait almost a decade for Cassell.
We'll see about the Collins stuff. I also wonder what else would be required in such a trade... Beasley won't be enough.
I think you're right that it would take more than Beasley to get Collins. The question is, how much more? As we all read, Atlanta was apparently demanding a future first in addition to Beasley and Rosas declined. I think he was right to decline and should reject that deal again if proposed. I'd give up Beasley, Culver and a future 2nd round pick (assuming we have any future 2nd round picks left). If that's not enough, then so be it. I like the front-court players we have in Naz, Vando and McDaniels. And now Juancho is starting to come around. All three of those guys still have lots of untapped upside and appear to have the drive to get better. So the Rosas shouldn't feel desperate to deal for another big. In fact, he shouldn't feel desperate to do any deals.