Will Be Painful Watching the Warriors

[thedoper]

Im going to be cheering my ass off for the Warriors to beat the Lakers in that first play in game. I could really care less if the beat us in the trade or not. These Lakers are insufferable.

[Lipoli390]

Im going to be cheering my ass off for the Warriors to beat the Lakers in that first play in game. I could really care less if the beat us in the trade or not. These Lakers are insufferable.

I'm totally with you on that Doper!! I'd love it if last year ends up the only NBA title they'll get with LeBron.

[Lipoli390]

I will just have to ride on the Wiseman is a bust bandwagon alone for now, but many of you will join sooner rather than later.

No idea if he's a bust or not. But I never nearly as high on him being a transformational player on the current Wolves squad as others.

One interesting thing is that I've heard from multiple sources that Evan Mobley is considered a better big man prospect... which shows you that the windows for these guys (perception) is pretty narrow sometimes.

Which is crazy to me. I'd take Wiseman over Mobley any day of the week.


As for the pick, as long as it's not the 4th pick to the Warriors, who cares? If the pick isn't Green/Kuminga/Mobley/Suggs/Cunningham, then the Wolves dodged a bullet. If it all it cost the Wolves was Jalen Johnson or Scottie Barnes or even Davion Mitchell and a 2nd to get rid of Wiggins, assets well spent. Keeping the '22 pick is much more important.

Good point, Wild. That's why I'm happy the Wolves will likely end up 6th from the bottom instead of 4th or 5th.

[Coolbreeze44]

Im going to be cheering my ass off for the Warriors to beat the Lakers in that first play in game. I could really care less if the beat us in the trade or not. These Lakers are insufferable.

I'm totally with you on that Doper!! I'd love it if last year ends up the only NBA title they'll get with LeBron.

I'm with both of you. That would be awesome.

[Lipoli390]

With their 1-point overtime win over the Knicks tonight, it looks like the Lakers will probably avoid the play-in tournament. The Lakers are currently only one game behind the Blazers and Mavs for the 5th and 6th slots in the Western Conference playoffs. The Lakers three remaining games are against Houston, New Orleans and Indiana. Houston is a sure win and the Lakers will likely win at least one of the other two. Meanwhile, Portland's last three games are against Utah, Phoenix and Denver. Unfortunately, I see the Lakers cracking the top six with the Blazers falling into the play-in tournament. But we can still hope the Lakers simply get knocked out in the play-in tournament.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I don't get the animosity toward LeBron and the Lakers. I get criticizing AD a bit more because of how he forced his way out of New Orleans early, but other than that, what's the criticism of the Lakers?

Frankly, I hope they at least make it to the first full round because when healthy, they are clearly one of the best teams in the league. The only reason they're even in danger of having to do the play-in is because of injuries. For the sake of competition, isn't it better to have your best teams going up against each other? That way, whoever comes out on top, you know they really earned it.

As for LeBron, he's pretty clearly one of the best basketball players to ever play the game. It's a legitimate debate whether or not he might actually be as good as or better than Jordan. If the Lakers win out and buy him a bit more time to recover from his ankle, this would give us another chance to gather evidence to answer that question. And it looks like it would be a first-round matchup with the Clippers and then a really tough road from there. Can he still play at an elite level and lead a team to the Finals or even a championship at his age? Or is he going to flame out as age or his own limitations catch up with him? Wouldn't you like the chance to find out?

I regret that I was only a casual fan in the Jordan era. I wish I had taken the opportunity to watch him play more. I would feel the same if he hadn't been able to win that last championship or two because regardless, he was still great. Someday soon, LeBron will retire, and we won't have the opportunity to watch a guy who has certainly been one of the top players to ever play the game. So until then, why wouldn't you want the opportunity to see just how good he really is? Whether you like it or not, our grandkids will seriously ask us what it was like to watch LeBron play. Do you want to be able to answer that and say when he was really challenged this year he either lived up to the hype or that he flamed out and was overrated, or do you actually want to say, "well I was hoping he'd miss the playoffs, and due to injuries, he did?"

[Lipoli390]

Drew -

I've always hated the Lakers because they're the Lakers. They've always been the big gorilla with a Hollywood glitz that, combined with their storied history and LA weather, gives them a huge advantage over every other team (except perhaps Miami) in attracting elite players. And it's not just marque free agents like LeBron, it's also draft prospects like Kobe whose agent maneuvered his client to get drafted by the Lakers and trade prospects like AD. Rooting against the Lakers is the flip side of rooting for the underdog.

As for LeBron. I appreciate his great talent and achievements. I disliked him when he left Cleveland for Miami. In that instance it was the fact he left but also the way he left. He significantly redeemed himself when he went back to Cleveland, but even then his return was predicated on the Cavs getting players like Kevin Love to join him. Then he ended up seeking the glitz and glory of the Hollywood Lakers to close out his career. Good for him, but his mercenary approach to the game diminishes him in my eyes. And that's why I don't put him on the same plain as MJ, Karl Malone, John Stockton or past Laker players like Kobe and Magic. Those guys stayed with the teams that drafted them, through early lean years in MJ's case, and even as personnel changed around them. Their franchises were loyal to them and they returned that loyalty. They didn't go searching for championships, sunshine or glitz in other places, but instead fought to bring championships to the teams they started with and the fans who supported them.

I like the way LeBron plays the game and respect his incredible talent. But I don't like his mercenary self-centered approach. He's aloof and doesn't bond with organizations, teammates or fans. And now he's with the Lakers. What's not to hate? :)

[AbeVigodaLive]

I grew up a Boston and loyal provincial rube Minnesota fan.

Now Drew knows why some of us have animosity toward the Lakers...

[thedoper]

Yeah I hate the Lakers because that was what Minnesota fans were supposed to do when I was young because that was our team. Loved the Celtics when I really started getting into basketball growing up. Then it was them always being entitled to acquire the best player whether they were available or not. In retrospect, Jerry West's management and the Kobe acquisition was pure genius. They also drafted well around their stars. Unfortunately I can't break my Laker hatred because it has been there my whole life. I tried to cheer for them last year when the playoffs started, but it lasted about a minute in their first playoff game. I hate the Lakers and their quick acquisitions of Lebron and AD seem to fit the narrative that makes me hate them. I am biased absolutely though. Its mental fandom.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I get some of the criticisms of LeBron. The way he left Cleveland was shitty. And I hate the way he has called out teammates at times through the media, especially in that passive aggressive way he's known for.

But beyond that, I think he kind of gets a bad rap.

The decision to go to Miami did set an unfortunate precedent for creating a superteam, but players are free to do that and the decision wasn't only to try to win but also to play with one of his closest friends. Would anybody here criticize a co-worker for taking a job with another company because it would be a better company and they could work with a friend?

When he went back to Cleveland, that was arguably one of the more admirable decisions in the free agency era. Cleveland still sucked, and Miami was easily poised to make another run at the finals. I'm pretty sure there couldn't have been predication on the Cavs getting Love or anybody else because LeBron announced his decision without even talking to Cleveland and before the Love trade. And he chose to return to a team whose owner had insulted him publicly, which shows he was willing to be the bigger person. And the bottom line was he chose to return to a crappy team in order to win a championship for a city that hadn't won one in decades--and he did it. It's pretty tough to question a guy's commitment to fans if they do that. Seriously, it's almost so sappy if you pitched it as a story before it happened, people might not believe it.

Then when he went to the Lakers, the Lakers were a pretty bad team and they didn't acquire any other stars when LeBron joined, and it was widely and credibly reported that he went there because after taking his family back to Cleveland, he'd promised his wife he'd go wherever she wanted next, and she picked L.A. So that's a dude making a career decision that puts his family first. We have a stereotype of the Lakers as an organization, a stereotype fed by the Pat Riley era, but that team was weak when he joined.

As far as we know, LeBron has never requested a trade or told a team he wouldn't re-sign with them to force one, even though that's basically become commonplace during this era.

As for the comparison to MJ, Kobe, and Magic regarding staying with the same franchise--MJ and Magic played in a completely different time in terms of free agency. Basically no stars left their teams in those years, while almost all stars leave their teams these days, so I'm not sure it's fair to view LeBron critically in comparison to MJ and Magic. Also, if we're going to criticize LeBron for his relationships with teammates, uhhhh . . . did you watch The Last Dance?? MJ was a borderline abusive psychopath to his teammates. (Also, Krause showed little loyalty to any of his players, and they returned the favor). As for Kobe's loyalty, he actually did publicly request a trade. Also, if we're going to root against LeBron for his free agency decisions, even though he never forced a trade, why is he drawing the criticism before the Clippers (Kawhi and PG), Dallas (KP), Miami (Butler), or Brooklyn (Irving and Harden). I'm all for criticizing the Lakers for AD, but it's weird that LeBron gets the flak. And before criticizing LeBron, shouldn't we lay into the Sixers for tanking for years?

I'm not some sort of LeBron apologist. He's not my favorite player. I think he's earned criticism with the way he left Cleveland and the way he's called out teammates publicly in the past. But I'm not sure the other reasons people often cite for disliking him are supported by facts as much as they are built around a stereotype of the Lakers, our perspective as fans of a small-market team that has lost stars (we all remember Love forcing his way out), and a general dislike of the free agency era for which LeBron has become a symbol even though he's never really made the kinds of trade demands we associate with the worst cases.

Not trying to start an argument or anything. You guys make fair points and I respect you all. But personally, I don't think LeBron deserves some of the criticism he's getting here.