Q12543 wrote:Yeah, much respect for Kek's spirited defense of DLO. The numbers don't lie and Kek is backing his arguments up with sound data. He's not spinning a narrative and cherry-picking stats.
Having said that, this is a relatively short stretch of games in the big scheme of things. Let's see how the Wolves finish the year and how these guys look through the first 20 or 25 games of next season, as I'm assuming KAT and DLO will be back next season for sure.
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I'm not convinced this is a playoff-caliber roster in the West yet, but I'm also pretty sure some of the recent good play is tangible improvement and a step forward. It still feels like a team whose ceiling is 7th or 8th seed at best heading into next season.
Okay, fair enough. I won't spin anything either. Just facts. The Wolves have won 2 of their last 3 games. In those games, DLO is shooting 16-50 from the floor and 3-25 from 3 point range. I could go back further, but time doesn't allow it today. Every time we win a game, Kek reminds us of the team's record with KAT and DLO on the court. When we lose we don't hear about that so much. But now I understand that when we win it's simply because KAT and DLO played together. Nothing else matters. Okay, I'm on board now.
In no way do i think Dlo is the sole contributing factor to wins. Think it's a team effort for sure. I do think he is a big part to it though and taking him out the Wolves would not be have won 5 of their last 7 (they should be on a 7 game win streak and them not is partly because of Dlo).
Also yes I'm going to point out when the Wolves win when Dlo and Kat play together. Rosas made a big trade last year to have our core be Dlo and Kat and now add Ant and probably McDaniels to that core. So yes in a year where the Wolves have not been good. I'm going to look at the positives of when the 2 guys rosas wants to build around are are playing they are winning at a pretty darn good rate. I'm going to be excited about that. When you take with Dlo or Kat out of the lineup the Wolves are only winning 1 in every 4.5 games. So the mesh of Dlo and Kat with the roster has been successful.
Now Q is right sample size is still decently small but after tonight Dlo and Kat together will have played 18 games together meaning a quarter of a 72 game season. So the record is getting closer to legit then small sample size blip.
I'll just remind you of a couple things. Please don't take this wrong, you are one of my favorite guys. First, availability is a real attribute. They haven't played many games together because they haven't been durable. That's all part of being a good player. And durability issues tend to repeat themselves. And secondly, the general attitude of this board at the time of the trade was that this was going to be a complete game changer for us. We wouldn't just make the playoffs, we would be looking at home court in the first round. And finally, the end of the NBA season is a joke. Players are sitting out because they feel like it or because any number of teams are trying to lose. Drawing conclusions from games played right now is subject to massive error. Remember last season when the board made a big deal about how Culver played at the end? As a fan of the NBA, and especially the Wolves, you should know games next November are what really are going to tell the story. Just like they did this year.
I dont know that playoffs or even home court was the consensus about the trade. The only consensus seemed to be good riddance Wiggins for the most part. Just look at the wins prediction thread this year. I think even the DLo optimists we quite cautious about the positive impacts.
Q12543 wrote:Yeah, much respect for Kek's spirited defense of DLO. The numbers don't lie and Kek is backing his arguments up with sound data. He's not spinning a narrative and cherry-picking stats.
Having said that, this is a relatively short stretch of games in the big scheme of things. Let's see how the Wolves finish the year and how these guys look through the first 20 or 25 games of next season, as I'm assuming KAT and DLO will be back next season for sure.
.
I'm not convinced this is a playoff-caliber roster in the West yet, but I'm also pretty sure some of the recent good play is tangible improvement and a step forward. It still feels like a team whose ceiling is 7th or 8th seed at best heading into next season.
Okay, fair enough. I won't spin anything either. Just facts. The Wolves have won 2 of their last 3 games. In those games, DLO is shooting 16-50 from the floor and 3-25 from 3 point range. I could go back further, but time doesn't allow it today. Every time we win a game, Kek reminds us of the team's record with KAT and DLO on the court. When we lose we don't hear about that so much. But now I understand that when we win it's simply because KAT and DLO played together. Nothing else matters. Okay, I'm on board now.
In no way do i think Dlo is the sole contributing factor to wins. Think it's a team effort for sure. I do think he is a big part to it though and taking him out the Wolves would not be have won 5 of their last 7 (they should be on a 7 game win streak and them not is partly because of Dlo).
Also yes I'm going to point out when the Wolves win when Dlo and Kat play together. Rosas made a big trade last year to have our core be Dlo and Kat and now add Ant and probably McDaniels to that core. So yes in a year where the Wolves have not been good. I'm going to look at the positives of when the 2 guys rosas wants to build around are are playing they are winning at a pretty darn good rate. I'm going to be excited about that. When you take with Dlo or Kat out of the lineup the Wolves are only winning 1 in every 4.5 games. So the mesh of Dlo and Kat with the roster has been successful.
Now Q is right sample size is still decently small but after tonight Dlo and Kat together will have played 18 games together meaning a quarter of a 72 game season. So the record is getting closer to legit then small sample size blip.
I'll just remind you of a couple things. Please don't take this wrong, you are one of my favorite guys. First, availability is a real attribute. They haven't played many games together because they haven't been durable. That's all part of being a good player. And durability issues tend to repeat themselves. And secondly, the general attitude of this board at the time of the trade was that this was going to be a complete game changer for us. We wouldn't just make the playoffs, we would be looking at home court in the first round. And finally, the end of the NBA season is a joke. Players are sitting out because they feel like it or because any number of teams are trying to lose. Drawing conclusions from games played right now is subject to massive error. Remember last season when the board made a big deal about how Culver played at the end? As a fan of the NBA, and especially the Wolves, you should know games next November are what really are going to tell the story. Just like they did this year.
I dont know that playoffs or even home court was the consensus about the trade. The only consensus seemed to be good riddance Wiggins for the most part. Just look at the wins prediction thread this year. I think even the DLo optimists we quite cautious about the positive impacts.
The two players have the same VORP and Wiggins has the higher win shares. So how's that working out for us?
Q12543 wrote:Yeah, much respect for Kek's spirited defense of DLO. The numbers don't lie and Kek is backing his arguments up with sound data. He's not spinning a narrative and cherry-picking stats.
Having said that, this is a relatively short stretch of games in the big scheme of things. Let's see how the Wolves finish the year and how these guys look through the first 20 or 25 games of next season, as I'm assuming KAT and DLO will be back next season for sure.
.
I'm not convinced this is a playoff-caliber roster in the West yet, but I'm also pretty sure some of the recent good play is tangible improvement and a step forward. It still feels like a team whose ceiling is 7th or 8th seed at best heading into next season.
Okay, fair enough. I won't spin anything either. Just facts. The Wolves have won 2 of their last 3 games. In those games, DLO is shooting 16-50 from the floor and 3-25 from 3 point range. I could go back further, but time doesn't allow it today. Every time we win a game, Kek reminds us of the team's record with KAT and DLO on the court. When we lose we don't hear about that so much. But now I understand that when we win it's simply because KAT and DLO played together. Nothing else matters. Okay, I'm on board now.
In no way do i think Dlo is the sole contributing factor to wins. Think it's a team effort for sure. I do think he is a big part to it though and taking him out the Wolves would not be have won 5 of their last 7 (they should be on a 7 game win streak and them not is partly because of Dlo).
Also yes I'm going to point out when the Wolves win when Dlo and Kat play together. Rosas made a big trade last year to have our core be Dlo and Kat and now add Ant and probably McDaniels to that core. So yes in a year where the Wolves have not been good. I'm going to look at the positives of when the 2 guys rosas wants to build around are are playing they are winning at a pretty darn good rate. I'm going to be excited about that. When you take with Dlo or Kat out of the lineup the Wolves are only winning 1 in every 4.5 games. So the mesh of Dlo and Kat with the roster has been successful.
Now Q is right sample size is still decently small but after tonight Dlo and Kat together will have played 18 games together meaning a quarter of a 72 game season. So the record is getting closer to legit then small sample size blip.
I'll just remind you of a couple things. Please don't take this wrong, you are one of my favorite guys. First, availability is a real attribute. They haven't played many games together because they haven't been durable. That's all part of being a good player. And durability issues tend to repeat themselves. And secondly, the general attitude of this board at the time of the trade was that this was going to be a complete game changer for us. We wouldn't just make the playoffs, we would be looking at home court in the first round. And finally, the end of the NBA season is a joke. Players are sitting out because they feel like it or because any number of teams are trying to lose. Drawing conclusions from games played right now is subject to massive error. Remember last season when the board made a big deal about how Culver played at the end? As a fan of the NBA, and especially the Wolves, you should know games next November are what really are going to tell the story. Just like they did this year.
I dont know that playoffs or even home court was the consensus about the trade. The only consensus seemed to be good riddance Wiggins for the most part. Just look at the wins prediction thread this year. I think even the DLo optimists we quite cautious about the positive impacts.
The two players have the same VORP and Wiggins has the higher win shares. So how's that working out for us?
Wiggins has stayed healthy so that helps is case as much as anything. One issue that was a big deal at the time as that we had a ton of wings and no PG. McLaughlin was the only PG on on the roster. Maybe people would have been more OK with drafting ball since there would have been more of a need but this board was so down on him at the draft. I think drafting Ball instead of Edwards was a very likely outcome. The trade had a lot to do with fit and still does. The Warriors needed a bigger wing and the Wolves needed a PG and more dynamic play making guard. I'll be honest if I thought the Wolves would have been in a real position to draft Ball at the time we were considering trading for Russell I would have been 100% against trading for Russell and I liked Russell while recognizing his flaws. I wasn't as bullish on Ball at the time of the draft but I would have been more so if Russell wasn't on the roster. It would have made a lot of sense especially if we had Wiggins and all the other guys like Beasley who were scorers.
Having said that I'm pretty excited about Edwards I think he has the potential to be THE guy at least offensively and that could be a big deal. It's a star league. I'm not sure whether Ball will actually be a star yet but I'm not certain about Edwards either. I would say Ball has a much better floor especially in terms of general positive impact on a team.
Q12543 wrote:Yeah, much respect for Kek's spirited defense of DLO. The numbers don't lie and Kek is backing his arguments up with sound data. He's not spinning a narrative and cherry-picking stats.
Having said that, this is a relatively short stretch of games in the big scheme of things. Let's see how the Wolves finish the year and how these guys look through the first 20 or 25 games of next season, as I'm assuming KAT and DLO will be back next season for sure.
.
I'm not convinced this is a playoff-caliber roster in the West yet, but I'm also pretty sure some of the recent good play is tangible improvement and a step forward. It still feels like a team whose ceiling is 7th or 8th seed at best heading into next season.
Okay, fair enough. I won't spin anything either. Just facts. The Wolves have won 2 of their last 3 games. In those games, DLO is shooting 16-50 from the floor and 3-25 from 3 point range. I could go back further, but time doesn't allow it today. Every time we win a game, Kek reminds us of the team's record with KAT and DLO on the court. When we lose we don't hear about that so much. But now I understand that when we win it's simply because KAT and DLO played together. Nothing else matters. Okay, I'm on board now.
In no way do i think Dlo is the sole contributing factor to wins. Think it's a team effort for sure. I do think he is a big part to it though and taking him out the Wolves would not be have won 5 of their last 7 (they should be on a 7 game win streak and them not is partly because of Dlo).
Also yes I'm going to point out when the Wolves win when Dlo and Kat play together. Rosas made a big trade last year to have our core be Dlo and Kat and now add Ant and probably McDaniels to that core. So yes in a year where the Wolves have not been good. I'm going to look at the positives of when the 2 guys rosas wants to build around are are playing they are winning at a pretty darn good rate. I'm going to be excited about that. When you take with Dlo or Kat out of the lineup the Wolves are only winning 1 in every 4.5 games. So the mesh of Dlo and Kat with the roster has been successful.
Now Q is right sample size is still decently small but after tonight Dlo and Kat together will have played 18 games together meaning a quarter of a 72 game season. So the record is getting closer to legit then small sample size blip.
I'll just remind you of a couple things. Please don't take this wrong, you are one of my favorite guys. First, availability is a real attribute. They haven't played many games together because they haven't been durable. That's all part of being a good player. And durability issues tend to repeat themselves. And secondly, the general attitude of this board at the time of the trade was that this was going to be a complete game changer for us. We wouldn't just make the playoffs, we would be looking at home court in the first round. And finally, the end of the NBA season is a joke. Players are sitting out because they feel like it or because any number of teams are trying to lose. Drawing conclusions from games played right now is subject to massive error. Remember last season when the board made a big deal about how Culver played at the end? As a fan of the NBA, and especially the Wolves, you should know games next November are what really are going to tell the story. Just like they did this year.
I dont know that playoffs or even home court was the consensus about the trade. The only consensus seemed to be good riddance Wiggins for the most part. Just look at the wins prediction thread this year. I think even the DLo optimists we quite cautious about the positive impacts.
The two players have the same VORP and Wiggins has the higher win shares. So how's that working out for us?
Yeah I am still undecided but it sure seems like advantage GS right now. I was more commenting on the idea that at the time of the trade there was overwhelming optimism on the board to the positive effects of DLo. I remember some excitement but even then it was pretty tempered. At the time I thought we were getting the better player, I still do think DLo will be the better asset, but Wiggins has had another level of mirco improvement that seems to bring his value up a bit.
Keep Russell. Not because he's an All-Star, but because we are stuck with his contract and have to cross our fingers he'll get better.
Keep Edwards. He's showed some flashes. I want to give that guy another year to see where this goes.
Keep Naz Reed. He's showed significant improvement and is dirt cheap. He's not a starter, but he can find a role.
Keep Beasley. I like him as a 6th man.
Trade KAT. He's our best player. But you have to give - to get. We need better players. Specifically some guys who can play defense. And I'm not talking about guys like Okogie and Culver. I mean guys who can actually be productive on offense while still playing solid defense. They don't need guys to score 20 points/game. But they have to be able to knock down open shots. Is that too much to ask?
Russell has averaged 20 points/game the last three seasons.
Edwards will be 20+/game next year.
Reed can probably be a 15 points/game guy.
Beasley averaged about 20/game this year and I'm sure he'd do similar next.
That's 75 points/game. So if we surround those guys with defenders who can chip in 25 points a game. Maybe KAT brings back a defensive C, a solid PF and a draft pick?
