OT - City of Minneapolis

[Coolbreeze44]

Just want to clarify some remarks I've made in this thread. Upon reflection, I think I've been misunderstood by some. That can easily happen when people are so passionate about an issue like this. But the clarification I want to make is that I believe Chauvin committed a serious crime during the events of that day. I in no way have tried to argue otherwise. What I don't have an opinion on is whether that crime was 2nd degree murder, 3rd degree murder, manslaughter or all of the above. I'm simply not educated enough on crime law to have a worthwhile opinion. The opinion I HAVE tried to share is that the trial in the hands of 12 jurors was only going to end this way. I suppose they could have acquitted on one charge and convicted on another. But he was going to be a loser yesterday. This isn't just my opinion or something I created. The Jason Whitlock's of the world had the same opinion, and Q alluded to the pressure these jurors were under. The existing factors put an enormous amount of stress on our judicial system, and the jury system is an imperfect one under that stress.

So I hope this clears up any confusion resulting from the high emotions yesterday. One point I want to add is this: I'm extremely frustrated with the state of the union today. The main reason for that is the tens of thousands of people who lost their livelihood due to the events of that tragic day. Good, honest, hardworking Americans who did nothing wrong but had their businesses destroyed. The riots and property destruction that was allowed to transpire, largely for political purposes, is an enormous tragedy. We have a right to peaceful protest in this country, what happened last summer was far different. With government not stepping up to control these wrongs, my fear is they are going to become more prevalent. If something happens you disagree with, what's going to stop you from burning a building down? Chances are 1) you will get away with it, and 2) it will work to achieve your goal. People are going to make mistakes, honest or otherwise. We simply can't tear our cities apart every time they occur. I don't have a crystal ball, but a box has been opened and I'm more than worried about the consequences

I appreciate this post Cool. I think today is as good of a day as any for people to move toward reconciliation and I hope it happens. I have a great deal of pessimism as many do because we seem to be trapped in a negative cycle that includes deplorable behavior regardless of political views. Personal responsibility does matter in all of this, vandalism and violence is not an appropriate response to injustice, although it is understandable that some may respond that way. If everyone individually took a portion of responsibility in the dysfunctions that exist in Western society I believe everyone would be further along. Whether we feel responsible or not, its becoming our collective problem. It is worrisome, and hopefully not insurmountable.

What do you think about the theory that globalist elites are pitting us against each other to tear down the current societies so they can implement the new world order? If that is what is happening, it seems to be working.

[thedoper]

Just want to clarify some remarks I've made in this thread. Upon reflection, I think I've been misunderstood by some. That can easily happen when people are so passionate about an issue like this. But the clarification I want to make is that I believe Chauvin committed a serious crime during the events of that day. I in no way have tried to argue otherwise. What I don't have an opinion on is whether that crime was 2nd degree murder, 3rd degree murder, manslaughter or all of the above. I'm simply not educated enough on crime law to have a worthwhile opinion. The opinion I HAVE tried to share is that the trial in the hands of 12 jurors was only going to end this way. I suppose they could have acquitted on one charge and convicted on another. But he was going to be a loser yesterday. This isn't just my opinion or something I created. The Jason Whitlock's of the world had the same opinion, and Q alluded to the pressure these jurors were under. The existing factors put an enormous amount of stress on our judicial system, and the jury system is an imperfect one under that stress.

So I hope this clears up any confusion resulting from the high emotions yesterday. One point I want to add is this: I'm extremely frustrated with the state of the union today. The main reason for that is the tens of thousands of people who lost their livelihood due to the events of that tragic day. Good, honest, hardworking Americans who did nothing wrong but had their businesses destroyed. The riots and property destruction that was allowed to transpire, largely for political purposes, is an enormous tragedy. We have a right to peaceful protest in this country, what happened last summer was far different. With government not stepping up to control these wrongs, my fear is they are going to become more prevalent. If something happens you disagree with, what's going to stop you from burning a building down? Chances are 1) you will get away with it, and 2) it will work to achieve your goal. People are going to make mistakes, honest or otherwise. We simply can't tear our cities apart every time they occur. I don't have a crystal ball, but a box has been opened and I'm more than worried about the consequences

I appreciate this post Cool. I think today is as good of a day as any for people to move toward reconciliation and I hope it happens. I have a great deal of pessimism as many do because we seem to be trapped in a negative cycle that includes deplorable behavior regardless of political views. Personal responsibility does matter in all of this, vandalism and violence is not an appropriate response to injustice, although it is understandable that some may respond that way. If everyone individually took a portion of responsibility in the dysfunctions that exist in Western society I believe everyone would be further along. Whether we feel responsible or not, its becoming our collective problem. It is worrisome, and hopefully not insurmountable.

What do you think about the theory that globalist elites are pitting us against each other to tear down the current societies so they can implement the new world order? If that is what is happening, it seems to be working.

If I knew who they were I would ask why now and how it would actually benefit them. The great thing about that question is that it is almost impossible to answer. I dont personally feel inherently pitted against anyone. I think that disagreements can be a healthy part of the human experience. It doesnt take a global elitist to explain to me that if 50 people cant agree about bad basketball, global politics will be more complicated.

[Porckchop]

Being a drug dealer is an occupation. With that choice of employment comes with it it's own set of risks. Much like choosing to be a cop.
Having said that, Chauvin deserves to be in Jail. He crossed the line of what I see to be proper policing.

I do find it interesting that within the drug game and community the amount of violence and death that takes place and no one seems to bat an eye about it. Just part of doing business. But once law enforcement comes into play than everyone is worried about what's right and wrong. Interesting dichotomy. To bad the moral compass doesn't come in to play until the men in blue do.

[mrhockey89]

Interesting conversation on all sides, and a very heated topic. From the beginning, I didn't care whether Chauvin was found guilty or not guilty, as long as the jury was fair and unbias. I can't say for sure one way or another as to whether the pressure was involved in the verdict, or if they legitimately went through all the facts quickly and happened to all agree it was beyond reasonable doubt.

With that said, this case was not about race even though it's being made about that. Not one suggestion made in the courtroom, from the charges to the testimony and questioning, suggested race was involved. Why? Because it's a completely subjective narrative that is being used. I don't know if Chauvin is racist, but what I do know is that there's a reason it wasn't part of the trial, and that's because there was no evidence to suggest race had anything to do with what happened. For that, I wish the media would stop hyping this up as just that.

Most people, including all on this board I would presume, that people shouldn't be killed for no reason by police, regardless of race of the officer or the civilian.

I don't talk numbers on this board very often, but I am a numbers and logic driven thinker. If you want to solve the issue of black people dying in America, then even if cops are perfect, it won't move the needle statistically. An unarmed black man (or white man) is more likely to be struck by lightning than they are to get killed by a police officer, let that sink in. I know we don't like to talk about racial disparities in this country when it comes to actions, but blacks commit a much higher percentage of violent crime in proportion to their population as well as are more likely to resist arrest, and when you combine those two factors, we're able to pinpoint why things get so dangerous so quick in the interactions. On the flip side, white people are more likely to have suicide by cop.

If you really want to fix what's going on with this country with cops and any citizens, including or maybe even especially blacks, then you can't just look at one side of the issue and point the finger.
1- Better and regular audits of police body cameras (get the cops that aren't able to deescalate off the mean streets, and I'm talking review every interaction).
2- Review police use of force to determine what is necessary vs what they can change or draw back on.
3- Make sure that cops are showing the same respect that they demand. (Treat everyone like a human even on a rough day)
4- The community must start taking accountability for their parts. This starts by treating police with respect, complying, not resisting arrest, and protesting every police involved shooting regardless of legitimacy (i.e. Michael Brown).

On the recent other deaths at the hands of police:
-Brooklyn Center (Potter) was very unfortunate but the system is going to work as it is designed to. It's pretty obvious she shot him and he died of the gunshot wound, it's also obvious he resisted arrest, and the shooting was also clearly accidental (taser). The guy lost his life, the cop has manslaughter charges that are sure to stick, and nobody wins. Had she not shot, he'd be alive today, and had he not resisted, he'd also still be alive today.
-Ohio shooting. This was a clean shooting. The girl was literally in mid-stabbing motion when the cop shot her. Additionally, elsewhere in Ohio, I believe on the same day, a 13 year old was stabbed dead by another teen. The cop very possibly saved the other girl's life. I'm not shedding a tear for the girl who died (the 16 year old with the knife), just as I'm not shedding a tear for the white guy in Burnsville who carjacked and shot at police. I see people protesting this, including LeBron. If this backlash continues, what's going to happen is that cops will stop showing up in underserved communities, and crime will spike until people let cops do their jobs again.

What I'm concerned with most right now is that there's no context in anything. Biden is actually promoting the 1619 Project to be taught in schools, throwing money at schools to do so. This book isn't even historically accurate. If the intent is to give some extra context about how slavery impacted where we're at now, then you better get some better and more balanced context, because it's not in that reading and it's dangerous to teach kids based on principles that will divide us. Packing the Supreme Court, adding DC as it's own state, etc, all power grab attempts. If any of these things happen, then it'll be a boomerang with the Republicans when they take control again. It will be never-ending.

The rhetoric in this country sucks right now. The US is still the destination of choice for everyone in the world, but you wouldn't know it based on the discourse lately. Our politicians are mostly infants with a podium, our companies are getting in the political discussion as are athletes and actors because they can, while their statements further divide everyone. And our media, a media which I actually did trust years ago, no longer can be trusted with presenting a story with journalistic integrity, of which I can cite many many examples.

[Carlos Danger]

Reform has already started:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/manhattan-stop-prosecuting-prostitution-part-185325536.html

Welcome to the New America. Happy Endings everyone.

[bleedspeed]

Reform has already started:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/manhattan-stop-prosecuting-prostitution-part-185325536.html

Welcome to the New America. Happy Endings everyone.

I wonder if Jennifer Love Hewitt will bring back "The Client List". The dialogue and storyline were fantastic.

[Carlos Danger]

I wonder if Jennifer Love Hewitt will bring back "The Client List". The dialogue and storyline were fantastic.

How did I ever miss that show? I dig me some JLH. YouTube fed me this clip - have you seen the CNN crew attack? I never saw it on the regular/nightly news shows. But it's an example of how well de-escalation works in the real world (ouch!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCM34m_gQ74

[AbeVigodaLive]

I wonder if Jennifer Love Hewitt will bring back "The Client List". The dialogue and storyline were fantastic.

How did I ever miss that show? I dig me some JLH. YouTube fed me this clip - have you seen the CNN crew attack? I never saw it on the regular/nightly news shows. But it's an example of how well de-escalation works in the real world (ouch!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCM34m_gQ74

I watched.

And I chuckled at the guy who got hit in the head with the bottle later walking into an open car door (0:32).

I do feel slightly bad about laughing at that... but c'mon... physical comedy is funny!

[FNG]

I wonder if Jennifer Love Hewitt will bring back "The Client List". The dialogue and storyline were fantastic.

How did I ever miss that show? I dig me some JLH. YouTube fed me this clip - have you seen the CNN crew attack? I never saw it on the regular/nightly news shows. But it's an example of how well de-escalation works in the real world (ouch!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCM34m_gQ74

I watched.

And I chuckled at the guy who got hit in the head with the bottle later walking into an open car door (0:32).

I do feel slightly bad about laughing at that... but c'mon... physical comedy is funny!

Wow, Armen Terzian looks terrific for his age! He must be over 100 now, don't you think?

[Carlos Danger]

I watched.

And I chuckled at the guy who got hit in the head with the bottle later walking into an open car door (0:32).

I do feel slightly bad about laughing at that... but c'mon... physical comedy is funny!

I'm also guilty of laughing at him running into the door. I think the poor bastard might have had a concussion.

But to the serious point of it all....I'm just not sure how police de-escalation will look/work. I grew up getting the belt from my old man when I was out of line (or at least when he thought I was). My mom would whack us with a wooden spoon. Usually these hits were on the backside, but an occasional knot to the head wasn't unusual either. I don't have kids. But none of my brothers or sisters spanked their children. As an outsider, I am not impressed with the results of the "time out/take away the iphone" approach. My nieces/nephews misbehave off the scale compared to how I grew up. I think some fear/force is ok to maintain order. But to be clear - in the George Floyd instance, there is a point where enough is enough.