The return of TeamRicky

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I kind of agree that in the bigger picture of roster and current guys under contract, obtaining Ricky is a bit curious even though I love the fact he is back.

To Monster's point though, he does add a ballast to a volume-scoring backcourt that includes Russell, Edwards, and potentially Beasley if he is re-signed. He can co-exist with shooters and scorers - and in fact enables them by getting them the looks they prefer - while also providing some defensive intensity and switch-ability on the other end.

Here are the other vets in Rubio's price range for comparison:

Aaron Gordon - I kind of agree that on paper he's a better fit from a pure roster construction perspective
Eric Gordon - Kind of a one-trick pony. No thanks.
Clint Capela - He'd be great, but Rosas is dead set on not playing two bigs at once in case anyone hasn't noticed.
James Johnson - We saw him last year. He's a decent vet, but I believe Ricky has a more positive team impact and is a career starting PG whereas Johnson is more of a bench player.
Eric Bledoe - I agree with Abe that Bledsoe is a tick above Rubio as a PG.
Terry Rozier - Yuck
Gorgui Dieng - (see Clint Capela comment)
Evan Fournier - He'd fill a need for sure
Bojan Bogdanovich - same as Fournier

Do any of these guys blow Ricky out of the water in terms of overall production? I don't think so. However, some are better positional fits than Ricky based on how the current roster stands.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I kind of agree that in the bigger picture of roster and current guys under contract, obtaining Ricky is a bit curious even though I love the fact he is back.

To Monster's point though, he does add a ballast to a volume-scoring backcourt that includes Russell, Edwards, and potentially Beasley if he is re-signed. He can co-exist with shooters and scorers - and in fact enables them by getting them the looks they prefer - while also providing some defensive intensity and switch-ability on the other end.

Here are the other vets in Rubio's price range for comparison:

Aaron Gordon - I kind of agree that on paper he's a better fit from a pure roster construction perspective
Eric Gordon - Kind of a one-trick pony. No thanks.
Clint Capela - He'd be great, but Rosas is dead set on not playing two bigs at once in case anyone hasn't noticed.
James Johnson - We saw him last year. He's a decent vet, but I believe Ricky has a more positive team impact and is a career starting PG whereas Johnson is more of a bench player.
Eric Bledoe - I agree with Abe that Bledsoe is a tick above Rubio as a PG.
Terry Rozier - Yuck
Gorgui Dieng - (see Clint Capela comment)
Evan Fournier - He'd fill a need for sure
Bojan Bogdanovich - same as Fournier

Do any of these guys blow Ricky out of the water in terms of overall production? I don't think so. However, some are better positional fits than Ricky based on how the current roster stands.

Surprised by your Rozier description. After the mocking of his contract... and a terrible start... Rozier rebounded to have a surprisingly solid season.

18.0 ppg
4.4 reb
4.1 ast
40.7% 3fg
Solid A/TO ratio

Granted, he'd be a bit redundant with Beasley... just wanted to point out that he wasn't terrible... and if that sudden improvement on high-volume threes is more of a trend than an anomaly... Rozier is not a bad NBA player at all.

[Monster]

I kind of agree that in the bigger picture of roster and current guys under contract, obtaining Ricky is a bit curious even though I love the fact he is back.

To Monster's point though, he does add a ballast to a volume-scoring backcourt that includes Russell, Edwards, and potentially Beasley if he is re-signed. He can co-exist with shooters and scorers - and in fact enables them by getting them the looks they prefer - while also providing some defensive intensity and switch-ability on the other end.

Here are the other vets in Rubio's price range for comparison:

Aaron Gordon - I kind of agree that on paper he's a better fit from a pure roster construction perspective
Eric Gordon - Kind of a one-trick pony. No thanks.
Clint Capela - He'd be great, but Rosas is dead set on not playing two bigs at once in case anyone hasn't noticed.
James Johnson - We saw him last year. He's a decent vet, but I believe Ricky has a more positive team impact and is a career starting PG whereas Johnson is more of a bench player.
Eric Bledoe - I agree with Abe that Bledsoe is a tick above Rubio as a PG.
Terry Rozier - Yuck
Gorgui Dieng - (see Clint Capela comment)
Evan Fournier - He'd fill a need for sure
Bojan Bogdanovich - same as Fournier

Do any of these guys blow Ricky out of the water in terms of overall production? I don't think so. However, some are better positional fits than Ricky based on how the current roster stands.

Here is the thing Gordon clearly would have cost at least 17 straight up. Supposedly Orlando turned down a similar package that Houston got for Covington. That's hard to believe but I would guess we would have had to at least give up 17 and johnson. That's a lot more than what we had up for Rubio.

Some of the other guys on that like might cost at least that much too in terms of a draft pick.

Bledsoe better than Rubio? Maybe in general but it depends on what you want out of each guy. The thing is Rubio might be a guy you trade to upgrade to that type of player that's a step above the guy you had for maybe another year of contract. It's still kinda impressive that Rosas turned Dieng into Johnson and then into Rubio.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I kind of agree that in the bigger picture of roster and current guys under contract, obtaining Ricky is a bit curious even though I love the fact he is back.

To Monster's point though, he does add a ballast to a volume-scoring backcourt that includes Russell, Edwards, and potentially Beasley if he is re-signed. He can co-exist with shooters and scorers - and in fact enables them by getting them the looks they prefer - while also providing some defensive intensity and switch-ability on the other end.

Here are the other vets in Rubio's price range for comparison:

Aaron Gordon - I kind of agree that on paper he's a better fit from a pure roster construction perspective
Eric Gordon - Kind of a one-trick pony. No thanks.
Clint Capela - He'd be great, but Rosas is dead set on not playing two bigs at once in case anyone hasn't noticed.
James Johnson - We saw him last year. He's a decent vet, but I believe Ricky has a more positive team impact and is a career starting PG whereas Johnson is more of a bench player.
Eric Bledoe - I agree with Abe that Bledsoe is a tick above Rubio as a PG.
Terry Rozier - Yuck
Gorgui Dieng - (see Clint Capela comment)
Evan Fournier - He'd fill a need for sure
Bojan Bogdanovich - same as Fournier

Do any of these guys blow Ricky out of the water in terms of overall production? I don't think so. However, some are better positional fits than Ricky based on how the current roster stands.

Here is the thing Gordon clearly would have cost at least 17 straight up. Supposedly Orlando turned down a similar package that Houston got for Covington. That's hard to believe but I would guess we would have had to at least give up 17 and johnson. That's a lot more than what we had up for Rubio.

Some of the other guys on that like might cost at least that much too in terms of a draft pick.

Bledsoe better than Rubio? Maybe in general but it depends on what you want out of each guy. The thing is Rubio might be a guy you trade to upgrade to that type of player that's a step above the guy you had for maybe another year of contract. It's still kinda impressive that Rosas turned Dieng into Johnson and then into Rubio.

I think there's a good chance when all is said and done that it pretty much just ended up being Ricky for 17 because the 2 guys actually picked are not gonna make it. McDaniels has some issues that his on court play isn't gonna make up for and Bolmaro's stats have been pretty atrocious in the second best league in the world while getting low playing time which seems to be justified.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I kind of agree that in the bigger picture of roster and current guys under contract, obtaining Ricky is a bit curious even though I love the fact he is back.

To Monster's point though, he does add a ballast to a volume-scoring backcourt that includes Russell, Edwards, and potentially Beasley if he is re-signed. He can co-exist with shooters and scorers - and in fact enables them by getting them the looks they prefer - while also providing some defensive intensity and switch-ability on the other end.

Here are the other vets in Rubio's price range for comparison:

Aaron Gordon - I kind of agree that on paper he's a better fit from a pure roster construction perspective
Eric Gordon - Kind of a one-trick pony. No thanks.
Clint Capela - He'd be great, but Rosas is dead set on not playing two bigs at once in case anyone hasn't noticed.
James Johnson - We saw him last year. He's a decent vet, but I believe Ricky has a more positive team impact and is a career starting PG whereas Johnson is more of a bench player.
Eric Bledoe - I agree with Abe that Bledsoe is a tick above Rubio as a PG.
Terry Rozier - Yuck
Gorgui Dieng - (see Clint Capela comment)
Evan Fournier - He'd fill a need for sure
Bojan Bogdanovich - same as Fournier

Do any of these guys blow Ricky out of the water in terms of overall production? I don't think so. However, some are better positional fits than Ricky based on how the current roster stands.

Surprised by your Rozier description. After the mocking of his contract... and a terrible start... Rozier rebounded to have a surprisingly solid season.

18.0 ppg
4.4 reb
4.1 ast
40.7% 3fg
Solid A/TO ratio

Granted, he'd be a bit redundant with Beasley... just wanted to point out that he wasn't terrible... and if that sudden improvement on high-volume threes is more of a trend than an anomaly... Rozier is not a bad NBA player at all.

Go look at his On/Off numbers. He has literally never had a season where his team isn't markedly better when he's on the bench. He's the anti-Rubio in that regard.

[Monster]

I kind of agree that in the bigger picture of roster and current guys under contract, obtaining Ricky is a bit curious even though I love the fact he is back.

To Monster's point though, he does add a ballast to a volume-scoring backcourt that includes Russell, Edwards, and potentially Beasley if he is re-signed. He can co-exist with shooters and scorers - and in fact enables them by getting them the looks they prefer - while also providing some defensive intensity and switch-ability on the other end.

Here are the other vets in Rubio's price range for comparison:

Aaron Gordon - I kind of agree that on paper he's a better fit from a pure roster construction perspective
Eric Gordon - Kind of a one-trick pony. No thanks.
Clint Capela - He'd be great, but Rosas is dead set on not playing two bigs at once in case anyone hasn't noticed.
James Johnson - We saw him last year. He's a decent vet, but I believe Ricky has a more positive team impact and is a career starting PG whereas Johnson is more of a bench player.
Eric Bledoe - I agree with Abe that Bledsoe is a tick above Rubio as a PG.
Terry Rozier - Yuck
Gorgui Dieng - (see Clint Capela comment)
Evan Fournier - He'd fill a need for sure
Bojan Bogdanovich - same as Fournier

Do any of these guys blow Ricky out of the water in terms of overall production? I don't think so. However, some are better positional fits than Ricky based on how the current roster stands.

Here is the thing Gordon clearly would have cost at least 17 straight up. Supposedly Orlando turned down a similar package that Houston got for Covington. That's hard to believe but I would guess we would have had to at least give up 17 and johnson. That's a lot more than what we had up for Rubio.

Some of the other guys on that like might cost at least that much too in terms of a draft pick.

Bledsoe better than Rubio? Maybe in general but it depends on what you want out of each guy. The thing is Rubio might be a guy you trade to upgrade to that type of player that's a step above the guy you had for maybe another year of contract. It's still kinda impressive that Rosas turned Dieng into Johnson and then into Rubio.

I think there's a good chance when all is said and done that it pretty much just ended up being Ricky for 17 because the 2 guys actually picked are not gonna make it. McDaniels has some issues that his on court play isn't gonna make up for and Bolmaro's stats have been pretty atrocious in the second best league in the world while getting low playing time which seems to be justified.

Again the players the Wolves selected there doesn't really mean the initial trade for Rubio was a bad one. The Wolves could have selected good players (or maybe they did! Lol) but the draft value seems pretty close in this draft to #17.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I kind of agree that in the bigger picture of roster and current guys under contract, obtaining Ricky is a bit curious even though I love the fact he is back.

To Monster's point though, he does add a ballast to a volume-scoring backcourt that includes Russell, Edwards, and potentially Beasley if he is re-signed. He can co-exist with shooters and scorers - and in fact enables them by getting them the looks they prefer - while also providing some defensive intensity and switch-ability on the other end.

Here are the other vets in Rubio's price range for comparison:

Aaron Gordon - I kind of agree that on paper he's a better fit from a pure roster construction perspective
Eric Gordon - Kind of a one-trick pony. No thanks.
Clint Capela - He'd be great, but Rosas is dead set on not playing two bigs at once in case anyone hasn't noticed.
James Johnson - We saw him last year. He's a decent vet, but I believe Ricky has a more positive team impact and is a career starting PG whereas Johnson is more of a bench player.
Eric Bledoe - I agree with Abe that Bledsoe is a tick above Rubio as a PG.
Terry Rozier - Yuck
Gorgui Dieng - (see Clint Capela comment)
Evan Fournier - He'd fill a need for sure
Bojan Bogdanovich - same as Fournier

Do any of these guys blow Ricky out of the water in terms of overall production? I don't think so. However, some are better positional fits than Ricky based on how the current roster stands.

Surprised by your Rozier description. After the mocking of his contract... and a terrible start... Rozier rebounded to have a surprisingly solid season.

18.0 ppg
4.4 reb
4.1 ast
40.7% 3fg
Solid A/TO ratio

Granted, he'd be a bit redundant with Beasley... just wanted to point out that he wasn't terrible... and if that sudden improvement on high-volume threes is more of a trend than an anomaly... Rozier is not a bad NBA player at all.

Go look at his On/Off numbers. He has literally never had a season where his team isn't markedly better when he's on the bench. He's the anti-Rubio in that regard.

Is that uncommon for a young guy coming off the bench?

Boston trusted him enough to put him out there for 50 playoff games in 4 seasons.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I kind of agree that in the bigger picture of roster and current guys under contract, obtaining Ricky is a bit curious even though I love the fact he is back.

To Monster's point though, he does add a ballast to a volume-scoring backcourt that includes Russell, Edwards, and potentially Beasley if he is re-signed. He can co-exist with shooters and scorers - and in fact enables them by getting them the looks they prefer - while also providing some defensive intensity and switch-ability on the other end.

Here are the other vets in Rubio's price range for comparison:

Aaron Gordon - I kind of agree that on paper he's a better fit from a pure roster construction perspective
Eric Gordon - Kind of a one-trick pony. No thanks.
Clint Capela - He'd be great, but Rosas is dead set on not playing two bigs at once in case anyone hasn't noticed.
James Johnson - We saw him last year. He's a decent vet, but I believe Ricky has a more positive team impact and is a career starting PG whereas Johnson is more of a bench player.
Eric Bledoe - I agree with Abe that Bledsoe is a tick above Rubio as a PG.
Terry Rozier - Yuck
Gorgui Dieng - (see Clint Capela comment)
Evan Fournier - He'd fill a need for sure
Bojan Bogdanovich - same as Fournier

Do any of these guys blow Ricky out of the water in terms of overall production? I don't think so. However, some are better positional fits than Ricky based on how the current roster stands.

Surprised by your Rozier description. After the mocking of his contract... and a terrible start... Rozier rebounded to have a surprisingly solid season.

18.0 ppg
4.4 reb
4.1 ast
40.7% 3fg
Solid A/TO ratio

Granted, he'd be a bit redundant with Beasley... just wanted to point out that he wasn't terrible... and if that sudden improvement on high-volume threes is more of a trend than an anomaly... Rozier is not a bad NBA player at all.

Go look at his On/Off numbers. He has literally never had a season where his team isn't markedly better when he's on the bench. He's the anti-Rubio in that regard.

Is that uncommon for a young guy coming off the bench?

Boston trusted him enough to put him out there for 50 playoff games in 4 seasons.

Yes, it is unusual. Look at Tyus Jones, Dante Exum, or Jevon Carter. They are more of what you'd expect in terms of a mixed bag of On/Off seasons. Rozier is a negative every. single. season. And not just with Boston, but with a poor team like Charlotte too.

And we can't have it both ways when talking about bench players (not necessarily implying you are saying this, but....). We often excuse net positive bench guys we don't really like with, "well, he's coming off the bench and playing against weaker second units". We can't then turn around and say when it's a guy we like who has a negative rating, "well, he's coming off the bench and playing with his team's 2nd unit".

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I kind of agree that in the bigger picture of roster and current guys under contract, obtaining Ricky is a bit curious even though I love the fact he is back.

To Monster's point though, he does add a ballast to a volume-scoring backcourt that includes Russell, Edwards, and potentially Beasley if he is re-signed. He can co-exist with shooters and scorers - and in fact enables them by getting them the looks they prefer - while also providing some defensive intensity and switch-ability on the other end.

Here are the other vets in Rubio's price range for comparison:

Aaron Gordon - I kind of agree that on paper he's a better fit from a pure roster construction perspective
Eric Gordon - Kind of a one-trick pony. No thanks.
Clint Capela - He'd be great, but Rosas is dead set on not playing two bigs at once in case anyone hasn't noticed.
James Johnson - We saw him last year. He's a decent vet, but I believe Ricky has a more positive team impact and is a career starting PG whereas Johnson is more of a bench player.
Eric Bledoe - I agree with Abe that Bledsoe is a tick above Rubio as a PG.
Terry Rozier - Yuck
Gorgui Dieng - (see Clint Capela comment)
Evan Fournier - He'd fill a need for sure
Bojan Bogdanovich - same as Fournier

Do any of these guys blow Ricky out of the water in terms of overall production? I don't think so. However, some are better positional fits than Ricky based on how the current roster stands.

Here is the thing Gordon clearly would have cost at least 17 straight up. Supposedly Orlando turned down a similar package that Houston got for Covington. That's hard to believe but I would guess we would have had to at least give up 17 and johnson. That's a lot more than what we had up for Rubio.

Some of the other guys on that like might cost at least that much too in terms of a draft pick.

Bledsoe better than Rubio? Maybe in general but it depends on what you want out of each guy. The thing is Rubio might be a guy you trade to upgrade to that type of player that's a step above the guy you had for maybe another year of contract. It's still kinda impressive that Rosas turned Dieng into Johnson and then into Rubio.

I think there's a good chance when all is said and done that it pretty much just ended up being Ricky for 17 because the 2 guys actually picked are not gonna make it. McDaniels has some issues that his on court play isn't gonna make up for and Bolmaro's stats have been pretty atrocious in the second best league in the world while getting low playing time which seems to be justified.

Again the players the Wolves selected there doesn't really mean the initial trade for Rubio was a bad one. The Wolves could have selected good players (or maybe they did! Lol) but the draft value seems pretty close in this draft to #17.

Who we took absolutely plays a factor in evaluating the trade. You can't just ignore who we picked to make the trade value look better. Once picks are made it's how those guys play that become the real value of those picks when factoring into the trade. If they never play a significant minute for us then we effectively traded 17 and James Johnson for Ricky. Boston acquired a ton of assets the last 5-7 years and a lot of those assets were wasted on the RJ Hunter, James Young, Fab Melo's of the world. Those assets equate to nothing if you don't get guys who can play with them.

[Monster]

I kind of agree that in the bigger picture of roster and current guys under contract, obtaining Ricky is a bit curious even though I love the fact he is back.

To Monster's point though, he does add a ballast to a volume-scoring backcourt that includes Russell, Edwards, and potentially Beasley if he is re-signed. He can co-exist with shooters and scorers - and in fact enables them by getting them the looks they prefer - while also providing some defensive intensity and switch-ability on the other end.

Here are the other vets in Rubio's price range for comparison:

Aaron Gordon - I kind of agree that on paper he's a better fit from a pure roster construction perspective
Eric Gordon - Kind of a one-trick pony. No thanks.
Clint Capela - He'd be great, but Rosas is dead set on not playing two bigs at once in case anyone hasn't noticed.
James Johnson - We saw him last year. He's a decent vet, but I believe Ricky has a more positive team impact and is a career starting PG whereas Johnson is more of a bench player.
Eric Bledoe - I agree with Abe that Bledsoe is a tick above Rubio as a PG.
Terry Rozier - Yuck
Gorgui Dieng - (see Clint Capela comment)
Evan Fournier - He'd fill a need for sure
Bojan Bogdanovich - same as Fournier

Do any of these guys blow Ricky out of the water in terms of overall production? I don't think so. However, some are better positional fits than Ricky based on how the current roster stands.

Here is the thing Gordon clearly would have cost at least 17 straight up. Supposedly Orlando turned down a similar package that Houston got for Covington. That's hard to believe but I would guess we would have had to at least give up 17 and johnson. That's a lot more than what we had up for Rubio.

Some of the other guys on that like might cost at least that much too in terms of a draft pick.

Bledsoe better than Rubio? Maybe in general but it depends on what you want out of each guy. The thing is Rubio might be a guy you trade to upgrade to that type of player that's a step above the guy you had for maybe another year of contract. It's still kinda impressive that Rosas turned Dieng into Johnson and then into Rubio.

I think there's a good chance when all is said and done that it pretty much just ended up being Ricky for 17 because the 2 guys actually picked are not gonna make it. McDaniels has some issues that his on court play isn't gonna make up for and Bolmaro's stats have been pretty atrocious in the second best league in the world while getting low playing time which seems to be justified.

Again the players the Wolves selected there doesn't really mean the initial trade for Rubio was a bad one. The Wolves could have selected good players (or maybe they did! Lol) but the draft value seems pretty close in this draft to #17.

Who we took absolutely plays a factor in evaluating the trade. You can't just ignore who we picked to make the trade value look better. Once picks are made it's how those guys play that become the real value of those picks when factoring into the trade. If they never play a significant minute for us then we effectively traded 17 and James Johnson for Ricky. Boston acquired a ton of assets the last 5-7 years and a lot of those assets were wasted on the RJ Hunter, James Young, Fab Melo's of the world. Those assets equate to nothing if you don't get guys who can play with them.

Personally I don't see it that way wit this trade. I see it as basically Rubio for Johnson and #17 and a small sliver of Rubio value for 23 and 28. What if the players we got turn out to be awesome the the trade is a rounding success? I like to grade in smaller parts. For example the trade of Rubio for a draft pick was good in my opinion and Inwas a pretty big Rubio fan. Signing Teague with that cap space and more money ended up not being a good move over the life of the contract. I see that as a separate thing to grade. It's cool if we see it differently I can see merit in connecting them. If someone wanted to say they feel like the guy they really wanted was at #17 then compared that to the guys we got then that would be a little different too. For me I'm still looking at it as basically a Johnson for Rubio swap.