What About Rosas?

[thedoper]

D'Angelo Russell, Malik Beasley, Juan Hernangomez, and the 16th overall pick in this year's draft for Andrew Wiggins, Robert Covington, and Minnesota's first-round pick in 2021...

If anyone had come up with that trade as a hypothetical before last season, most of us would have responded with glee yet also pointed the finger at that poster for being a homer. And yet that's the takeaway Gersson Rosas got from the trade deadline. That's a pretty damn good haul even without considering the dire position the Wolves were in.

Not only did the current roster get noticeably better, but the future prospective did as well. And while Rosas traded a pick away he also replaced it in another deal. Asset management has been a plus for Rosas. Execution is 50/50 depending on how you feel about Jarrett Culver. More positives than negatives for Rosas, I feel. And if that's what he can consistently provide for the Wolves, then he will at some point bring a successful ball club to the table.

At this point this is a fair assessment as I see. I guess none of us can underestimate the ability of a Minnesota sports executive to implode though. Maybe it's safer to hedge your bets.

[Monster]

That's a very well thought out argument Lip. I have to be honest, the first thing I thought about when I heard Glen had the team for sale, was it might allow us to get out from under Rosas. I think your point #6 is where i really struggle with him. He's so hell bent on committing to a style that never got a very talented Houston team over the top. And then you realize we don't have a Harden or a Chris Paul to facilitate it.

I've said it many times that it's not the copiers, but the innovators who tend to have the greatest success. Much like you, I'm very skeptical about what he's done here.

Cool - I've seen you make that point about innovators versus copiers before and I totally agree. I'd also say that adaptors tend to succeed. The ability to adapt to circumstances is a common characteristic in successful NBA coaches and organizations. The Spurs and Pop are great examples of that. So is Carlisle. In my mind, it's a combination of innovation and adaptation that distinguishes the top NBA franchises and coaches.

I'm reading the book "The Forgotten Half of Change" which so far is pretty interesting and I'll share some thoughts that...may not be completely thought out but hopefully adds to the conversation. The author actually says innovation can copying someone else or another system but if you don't have any creativity you won't have anything new. That's the question. Does Rosas and his group (Especially Gupta) have the insight, desire, creativity to come up with something that's new? Will they be willing to implement it if they find it? Rosas is working with basically one thing that's the same when he took over and that's Towns. He reworked nearly the entire roster had a handful of games and then everything was shut down. He Certainly isn't too adverse to change.To some extent he now has a new reality to work through and come up with something that might look different while to some extent having very little collective info (of the product he put together) of what to do next.

To go even further is Rosas actually willing to listen to the people around him? David Kahn certainly didn't. Some of us worried that to some extent Flip wasn't going to especially after he became coach too. I think Flip was open to lots of ideas though. Thibs secluded himself from others. Rosas has claimed This is a complete group effort with everyone having a say and I feel pretty confident Ryan Saunders operates that way as a coach. Will Rosas actually respond well if people have new ideas or if what he has put together And continues to do so in terms of guys on the floor actually calls for a different approach than what he laid out? Idk but I have more confidence in that than 2 of the other executives I named partly because Rosas learned from one of the best and was part of that Group in Houstonthat came up with something new...but really they have continued to evolve based on Harden's abilities.

Just thinking here...what if Thibs was/is an innovator but doesn't really have the creative aspect?

[KG4Ever]

D'Angelo Russell, Malik Beasley, Juan Hernangomez, and the 16th overall pick in this year's draft for Andrew Wiggins, Robert Covington, and Minnesota's first-round pick in 2021...

If anyone had come up with that trade as a hypothetical before last season, most of us would have responded with glee yet also pointed the finger at that poster for being a homer. And yet that's the takeaway Gersson Rosas got from the trade deadline. That's a pretty damn good haul even without considering the dire position the Wolves were in.

Not only did the current roster get noticeably better, but the future prospective did as well. And while Rosas traded a pick away he also replaced it in another deal. Asset management has been a plus for Rosas. Execution is 50/50 depending on how you feel about Jarrett Culver. More positives than negatives for Rosas, I feel. And if that's what he can consistently provide for the Wolves, then he will at some point bring a successful ball club to the table.

I disagree and only time will show how bad these moves are. I believe the 2021 pick would have given the Wolves the opportunity to draft players that are better than any player the Wolves got back as that draft is loaded, Covington was very underappreciated and low salaried three and D wings aren't easy to find and if the Warriors can utilize Wiggins better than the Wolves did, it will go down as a very bad trade. Also, KDB who you didn't mention was traded away and he was one of the Wolves more promising young players. Also, the Wolves traded away a 2021 second rounder which probably is a pick in the 31 to 38 range and is valuable in a loaded and deep draft. Hernangomez is a journeyman type, Beasley would have been a free agent that the Wolves could have signed in free agency had they more patience and you know how I feel about DLO.

[kekgeek]

D'Angelo Russell, Malik Beasley, Juan Hernangomez, and the 16th overall pick in this year's draft for Andrew Wiggins, Robert Covington, and Minnesota's first-round pick in 2021...

If anyone had come up with that trade as a hypothetical before last season, most of us would have responded with glee yet also pointed the finger at that poster for being a homer. And yet that's the takeaway Gersson Rosas got from the trade deadline. That's a pretty damn good haul even without considering the dire position the Wolves were in.

Not only did the current roster get noticeably better, but the future prospective did as well. And while Rosas traded a pick away he also replaced it in another deal. Asset management has been a plus for Rosas. Execution is 50/50 depending on how you feel about Jarrett Culver. More positives than negatives for Rosas, I feel. And if that's what he can consistently provide for the Wolves, then he will at some point bring a successful ball club to the table.

I disagree and only time will show how bad these moves are. I believe the 2021 pick would have given the Wolves the opportunity to draft players that are better than any player the Wolves got back as that draft is loaded, Covington was very underappreciated and low salaried three and D wings aren't easy to find and if the Warriors can utilize Wiggins better than the Wolves did, it will go down as a very bad trade. Also, KDB who you didn't mention was traded away and he was one of the Wolves more promising young players. Also, the Wolves traded away a 2021 second rounder which probably is a pick in the 31 to 38 range and is valuable in a loaded and deep draft. Hernangomez is a journeyman type, Beasley would have been a free agent that the Wolves could have signed in free agency had they more patience and you know how I feel about DLO.

You can have this opinion because who knows how these trades will turn out. I do take issues though with 2 points in your post. If Wiggins figures it out with the Warriors it doesn't make the trade any worse. Wiggins was never going to figure it out with the Wolves we had 5.5 seasons with the Wolves, on a good team and some bad teams, with 4 different head coaches and he never figured it out at a consistent level. So if he finally figures it out with championship caliber players doesnt mean it makes the trade worse for the wolves, he was never making it work with the Wolves.

Then signing Beasley, the Wolves didnt have cap space to sign beasley. There is a 0% chance the wolves could of added beasley in free agency. Now you can rip the trade if we let beasley walk (doesn't really create any significant cap space if we let him walk) or if we sign him to a big untradable contract, then you can rip the beasley part of it. Once again though wolves couldn't add Beasley via FA

[Tactical unit]

Rosas gets high marks from me, he didn't have much to entice players via FA and to his credit didn't over pay for Tyus Jones or make a bad FA singing that impacts the team for many years to come. He took small shots, J. Bell's athleticism and not having tons of run in GS, Vonleh showing something with NYN and still young, a free Napier, Graham and Layman via trades. He took small non committal, prove it type of moves. More impressive once he evaluated all of these additions as not really moving the needle he moved on opening up playing time for others. In the past how often would we have made a regretting longer deal with a FA, how often would we have kept our weak additions and not moved on?

The draft he did what he thought was best moved up, made a splash and I think Culver can develop into a serviceable player at the least with some upside for more. Nowell in the 2nd had potential steal written all over it and time will tell either way I like the pick conceptually it's the type of shot you want to take in the 2nd. Naz Ried's talent as an undrafted player isn't the type of player we have seen come to MN in the past give credit for getting him to sign and at a team friendly deal. McLaughlin, Martin nice finds on the cheap.

With the coaching staff he went with the man ownership and the players liked. You can't tell me Ryan doesn't have passion, that his players don't enjoy his presence. So Rosas set out to groom this young coach giving him a influential group with some highly regarded assistant coaches and went with a groom and evaluate approach, I can't hate on that.

Where there's smoke there's fire: The rumor was does Town's want out of MN? I think KAT really wants to play with buddies D. Booker social media like by KAT for example. Rosas was pinned against the wall and only has so much time to get results before getting canned so he had to take risks to keep his star player happy. He evaluated Wiggins and determined him to be expendable and at the cost of a very valuable draft capital had to risk saving his own ass to bring in KAT's PG DLO. At least he gets play making and shooting and if it keeps KAT happy and puts out that fire that the media was trying to start of does KAT want out of MN then what else could Rosas do?

Rosas made up for the risk with better moves, shedding Dieng for a use-able and more influential player in J. Johnson. He got massive value from Covington and added lots of shooting to put around KAT. Considering the cards Rosas was dealt he did what he had too and showed me he deserves more time to build a strong roster.

[Lipoli390]

Rosas gets high marks from me, he didn't have much to entice players via FA and to his credit didn't over pay for Tyus Jones or make a bad FA singing that impacts the team for many years to come. He took small shots, J. Bell's athleticism and not having tons of run in GS, Vonleh showing something with NYN and still young, a free Napier, Graham and Layman via trades. He took small non committal, prove it type of moves. More impressive once he evaluated all of these additions as not really moving the needle he moved on opening up playing time for others. In the past how often would we have made a regretting longer deal with a FA, how often would we have kept our weak additions and not moved on?

The draft he did what he thought was best moved up, made a splash and I think Culver can develop into a serviceable player at the least with some upside for more. Nowell in the 2nd had potential steal written all over it and time will tell either way I like the pick conceptually it's the type of shot you want to take in the 2nd. Naz Ried's talent as an undrafted player isn't the type of player we have seen come to MN in the past give credit for getting him to sign and at a team friendly deal. McLaughlin, Martin nice finds on the cheap.

With the coaching staff he went with the man ownership and the players liked. You can't tell me Ryan doesn't have passion, that his players don't enjoy his presence. So Rosas set out to groom this young coach giving him a influential group with some highly regarded assistant coaches and went with a groom and evaluate approach, I can't hate on that.

Where there's smoke there's fire: The rumor was does Town's want out of MN? I think KAT really wants to play with buddies D. Booker social media like by KAT for example. Rosas was pinned against the wall and only has so much time to get results before getting canned so he had to take risks to keep his star player happy. He evaluated Wiggins and determined him to be expendable and at the cost of a very valuable draft capital had to risk saving his own ass to bring in KAT's PG DLO. At least he gets play making and shooting and if it keeps KAT happy and puts out that fire that the media was trying to start of does KAT want out of MN then what else could Rosas do?

Rosas made up for the risk with better moves, shedding Dieng for a use-able and more influential player in J. Johnson. He got massive value from Covington and added lots of shooting to put around KAT. Considering the cards Rosas was dealt he did what he had too and showed me he deserves more time to build a strong roster.

I didn't like the trade up for Culver. When you trade up like that it had better be for a player who becomes more than serviceable at the NBA level. Jon K has reported that Rosas traded up for Garland and miscalculated. That was bad enough, but he compounded his mistake by standing pat and taking Culver - who simply duplicates Okogie.

Having said that, I agree with you that Rosas deserves high marks for the Covington deal. He also deserves high marks for the undrafted free agents he signed - JMac, Reid and Martin. The Layman deal was also very good - high upside with no real downside.

I'm not a fan of the Russell deal because we gave up what will probably be a lottery pick and a high 2nd round pick in what is expected to be a very good, deep draft. However, I understand the deal and it could pay off. I would feel much better if the deal had been for Booker rather than Russell. I think Russell slows the offense down and I also think he's a bit of a flake - not the sort of guy you build a team around as one of your core two.

I think you're right that KAT was really pushing to have the Wolves acquire at least one of his two buddies. Having decided to build around KAT, Rosas had to be sensitive to KAT's interests. Again, I just wish the deal had been for Booker rather that Russell.

And you are right about the bad hand that Rosas was dealt.

So in the end, I definitely agree with you that Rosas deserves more time to build a strong roster. I've seen enough good from him so far to give cause for optimism. But I'm still unsure.

[Monster]

Rosas gets high marks from me, he didn't have much to entice players via FA and to his credit didn't over pay for Tyus Jones or make a bad FA singing that impacts the team for many years to come. He took small shots, J. Bell's athleticism and not having tons of run in GS, Vonleh showing something with NYN and still young, a free Napier, Graham and Layman via trades. He took small non committal, prove it type of moves. More impressive once he evaluated all of these additions as not really moving the needle he moved on opening up playing time for others. In the past how often would we have made a regretting longer deal with a FA, how often would we have kept our weak additions and not moved on?

The draft he did what he thought was best moved up, made a splash and I think Culver can develop into a serviceable player at the least with some upside for more. Nowell in the 2nd had potential steal written all over it and time will tell either way I like the pick conceptually it's the type of shot you want to take in the 2nd. Naz Ried's talent as an undrafted player isn't the type of player we have seen come to MN in the past give credit for getting him to sign and at a team friendly deal. McLaughlin, Martin nice finds on the cheap.

With the coaching staff he went with the man ownership and the players liked. You can't tell me Ryan doesn't have passion, that his players don't enjoy his presence. So Rosas set out to groom this young coach giving him a influential group with some highly regarded assistant coaches and went with a groom and evaluate approach, I can't hate on that.

Where there's smoke there's fire: The rumor was does Town's want out of MN? I think KAT really wants to play with buddies D. Booker social media like by KAT for example. Rosas was pinned against the wall and only has so much time to get results before getting canned so he had to take risks to keep his star player happy. He evaluated Wiggins and determined him to be expendable and at the cost of a very valuable draft capital had to risk saving his own ass to bring in KAT's PG DLO. At least he gets play making and shooting and if it keeps KAT happy and puts out that fire that the media was trying to start of does KAT want out of MN then what else could Rosas do?

Rosas made up for the risk with better moves, shedding Dieng for a use-able and more influential player in J. Johnson. He got massive value from Covington and added lots of shooting to put around KAT. Considering the cards Rosas was dealt he did what he had too and showed me he deserves more time to build a strong roster.

I didn't like the trade up for Culver. When you trade up like that it had better be for a player who becomes more than serviceable at the NBA level. Jon K has reported that Rosas traded up for Garland and miscalculated. That was bad enough, but he compounded his mistake by standing pat and taking Culver - who simply duplicates Okogie.

Having said that, I agree with you that Rosas deserves high marks for the Covington deal. He also deserves high marks for the undrafted free agents he signed - JMac, Reid and Martin. The Layman deal was also very good - high upside with no real downside.

I'm not a fan of the Russell deal because we gave up what will probably be a lottery pick and a high 2nd round pick in what is expected to be a very good, deep draft. However, I understand the deal and it could pay off. I would feel much better if the deal had been for Booker rather than Russell. I think Russell slows the offense down and I also think he's a bit of a flake - not the sort of guy you build a team around as one of your core two.

I think you're right that KAT was really pushing to have the Wolves acquire at least one of his two buddies. Having decided to build around KAT, Rosas had to be sensitive to KAT's interests. Again, I just wish the deal had been for Booker rather that Russell.

And you are right about the bad hand that Rosas was dealt.

So in the end, I definitely agree with you that Rosas deserves more time to build a strong roster. I've seen enough good from him so far to give cause for optimism. But I'm still unsure.

To me Booker the last couple years was a guy that was going To cost legit assets to get asking to get him instead of Russell for what the wolves gave up (and got rid of) seems like asking a little much. :) I think we can agree that one thing Rosas has done is add 2 guys in Russell and Beasley that have SOME sort of chance to be a dynamic backcourt together and grow along with Towns. Is Beasley turns into a legit starting NBA SG (On a reasonable contract whatever that could be) even if Russell isn't THE answer at PG Rosas Will look like he knew what he is doing Making his deals this season. I read part of a story/article that made a point that Towns Clock probably would have been ticking right now but...with Russell in the fold Towns is gonna stick for a while to see this through. I think that is worth considering. If Towns isn't really even a #2 player then that isn't even a correct calculation but we will see. I think it's Pretty hard to fault Rosas for trying to build around Towns. Meanwhile the Suns and Booker are feeing awesome right now. He is probably locked in till next season whenever that starts.

Lip when did Jon K report that about the trade up? Maybe it's been since the pandemic I hadn't heard him report that before.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Lip, I feel as if you're not accounting for -- or putting enough weight into -- the fact that Andrew Wiggins and his absurd contract was a clear negative asset in that trade for D'Angelo Russell. We had all but come to the conclusion here that it would take at least one first-round pick in any deal to unload Wiggins from Minnesota. Well, Gersson Rosas did exactly that, but instead of a Nic Batum or other practically useless player with high salary coming in return he acquired a 23-year old playmaking guard with an All-Star nod under his belt. That's impressive value to me regardless of what happens with Russell on this team going forward. I called it a steal then and I stand firm by that assessment. It's only a cherry on top that Russell also happens to be our most important player's best friend. The trade made sense on all levels.

[Lipoli390]

Lip, I feel as if you're not accounting for -- or putting enough weight into -- the fact that Andrew Wiggins and his absurd contract was a clear negative asset in that trade for D'Angelo Russell. We had all but come to the conclusion here that it would take at least one first-round pick in any deal to unload Wiggins from Minnesota. Well, Gersson Rosas did exactly that, but instead of a Nic Batum or other practically useless player with high salary coming in return he acquired a 23-year old playmaking guard with an All-Star nod under his belt. That's impressive value to me regardless of what happens with Russell on this team going forward. I called it a steal then and I stand firm by that assessment. It's only a cherry on top that Russell also happens to be our most important player's best friend. The trade made sense on all levels.

Fair point, Cam. And we'll never know what other deals for Wiggins, if any, were possible. If the Hornets were interested in swapping Batum for Wiggins, I wonder what additional assets we could have gotten along with Batum. Again, we'll never know.

I just have doubts about whether Russell was the right max player to add as part of a core duo with KAT. But in spite of my doubts, I'm not putting this deal in the pantheon of poor Wolves deals over the years. It was a calculated risk - adding a one-time all-star who's the same age as KAT and has the potential to improve. And as you noted, moving Wiggins was a plus.

[Monster]

Lip, I feel as if you're not accounting for -- or putting enough weight into -- the fact that Andrew Wiggins and his absurd contract was a clear negative asset in that trade for D'Angelo Russell. We had all but come to the conclusion here that it would take at least one first-round pick in any deal to unload Wiggins from Minnesota. Well, Gersson Rosas did exactly that, but instead of a Nic Batum or other practically useless player with high salary coming in return he acquired a 23-year old playmaking guard with an All-Star nod under his belt. That's impressive value to me regardless of what happens with Russell on this team going forward. I called it a steal then and I stand firm by that assessment. It's only a cherry on top that Russell also happens to be our most important player's best friend. The trade made sense on all levels.

Fair point, Cam. And we'll never know what other deals for Wiggins, if any, were possible. If the Hornets were interested in swapping Batum for Wiggins, I wonder what additional assets we could have gotten along with Batum. Again, we'll never know.

I just have doubts about whether Russell was the right max player to add as part of a core duo with KAT. But in spite of my doubts, I'm not putting this deal in the pantheon of poor Wolves deals over the years. It was a calculated risk - adding a one-time all-star who's the same age as KAT and has the potential to improve. And as you noted, moving Wiggins was a plus.

I'll add that at the very least Rosas sold high on Wiggins a bit and the Wolves should get some credit for getting him there to some extent. Some might say Rosas even bought low on Russell although Russell was on pace for a career year in a number of categories playing on a bad team. His shooting percentages dropped as a Wolf but his TS% was still much higher than his previous season in Brooklyn because he was as taking more 3's and getting to the line at nearly double the rate what he had the previous year. It was an uneven season for a bunch of reasons some not within Russell's control and he missed some games due to injury (wonder if he could have played more for either team more if he had to) but Russell did some things statistically that show possibility of making further progress in his game. If Russell somehow can continue to progress as a guy that can get fouled and become someone going to the line 6 to 7 times a game...especially if he becomes a better FT shooter (which I think is possible) that's gonna be pretty big for his game. That's still a big if as some guys can't really take that type of a jump but I don't think it's insane to consider as a possibility though.

It's a lower level transaction but it will be interesting to see what happens with the KBD for Vanderbilt swap. I see KBD has played minutes in the bubble with mixed results. Meanwhile Vanderbilt is over 3 years younger. I mentioned seeing some pics that looked like he had added some muscle. Below are some Instagram posts and I'd say he looks stronger. Look up all the guys that were on his AAU team everyone is in the NBA. I'm still a fan of KBD and to some extent I think he might have been a good fit as a true big SF for this current team but they also have a bunch of wings And really no real answer next to Towns. I don't think KBD would have worked as a small ball PF even though it seemed like he would have that ability he played more like a big wing. Rosas has done some work on the margins of this roster not all of them have worked out but he has done things that have made sense and have cost very little or basically nothing in terms of salary/commitment long term. It's worth remembering that KBD didn't really figure out his game in college till his last year. What if Vanderbilt starts to put it together at a similar age? It's fun to think about for a few moments at least. Lol

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBoivtwHIDs/?igshid=nbm90jchwc6o

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBRXNXUHju2/?igshid=hhops8ybtcb7