AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.
He's probably going to want one more "big" multi-year contract right? The cap is still going to be big next season. I'm not sure about all the guys on the market he'd have to compete with... but wouldn't he garner more from that deal as a soon-to-be 31 year old rather than a soon-to-be-32 year old?
Especially with possible/probable changes to the CBA surely coming...?
The cap may only jump from $94m to $102m.
As far as it pertains to Hetero, I'll put it this way: "Board Favorite" Eric Gordon had a positive PER split at PG, SG, and SF, and was a -72 on a team that was -312. He parlayed that into a $2.25m pay CUT, and that contract has been widely derided as one of the 20 worst contracts handed out in a offseason where the cap jumped 34%.
Now hetero might have a good season, but in '15/'16, he had a positive PER split at two positions (one of which he averaged less than a minute a game), and was a -86 on a team that was -205. Now we have all seen some amazing happen in contract years, but it's not looking good for him to walk away from $14m in a year where the cap might only jump 9%.
And for the Wolves to be stuck with that makes no sense. The Wolves are not a SMALL MARKET team, but they are a LOW REVENUE team, although to be fair, some of that is not their fault.
Eric Gordon just signed a 4 year, $53M contract. I think that's fairly close what Gay (at his current pace) could garner on the open market. So even with a slight paycut, he'd be looking at $40M. Or $50M. Or, $14M.
For a 30/31 year old, he's gonna want to lock in several more years at the highest yearly salary he can get. I imagine that's going to be next offseason. We'll see though.
I'm not saying the Wolves should bring him in.
Yes. Gordon "earned" $15.5m last year, and $53m divided by 4 years is $13.25m. That is a $2.25m pay cut. In a year that the cap jumped from $70m to $94m, or 34%, he took a pay cut. So a older, worse player in a year that the cap only jumps 8%? It shouldn't go well for him.
Don't get me wrong. He has a year to go, and there are still some idiots involved in the NBA, but I don't like his chances. Therefore, I don't like the chances of whomever has him on July 1st, 2017.
I'm not convinced every NBA team is convinced Eric Gordon is the better player.
We can both pick and choose whichever stats we want to try to prove a point... but we know how that goes. Let's just leave the Gordon > Gay discussion up for debate and assume it's not a slam dunk call either way. Gordon, after all, does have a lengthy injury history. And as noted in this thread, there might be a team out there convinced Gay can play the 4. Guys like Harrison Barnes are making about $24M.
Maybe Marvin Williams is a decent comp for Gay? He just signed for 4 year/$54.5M.
All I'm saying is that $14M is nice... but being able to get close to that figure over multiple seasons is a lot better.
Ok, I'll agree with the Gordon/Hetero push. And I think we can both agree that the Gordon benefited greatly from the timing that he IN NO WAY planned for.
But I would argue that I would rather have Williams than Hetero, believing that Williams has had the better career. Yes, ATL screwed up drafting him at #2 that year, but it doesn't make him a Darko/Beasley level bust.
And the timing is the timing, fair or not. A 9% cap jump just isn't the same as a 34% one. I believe he opts in and has a bad '17/'18.
Marvin Williams has had a better career then RUDY GAY?? WOW just WOW.
I would say a different perspective is Marvin Williams is better as a role player than Rudy Gay. Let's be honest for the Wolves right now who would you rather have Marvin Williams or Rudy Gay? Gay is more talented...but that's not always the more valuable player. To be a bit fair to Rudy Gay a lot of his career he has been in situations where the team basically was constructed to have him score. Maybe he is capable of accepting a different role. i just haven't seen that from him. I don't think he is a bad guy he just doesn't have that other gear that you would expect. I don't know how that plays out with him possibly being the 4th banana on this team even if you played him as a starting PF.
I'll add that Wolfson tweeted that the Wolves are looking for a wing or a PG. He said they are looking at bringing in a wing in a trade. I'm not saying That's Gay (doubt it) or maybe Wolfson doesn't have any real good info but I thought it was worth sharing. Some other guys jumped to mind other than Rudy Gay.
Wolfson thinks we need another PG? Seems odd.
No my apologies. To clarify that what he is hearing from his sources that priority is wing and then vet PG. Now a vet Pg does make some sense. Why? Dunn and Tyus are the backups and yeah they have talent but they also have 1 year of experience between them. I would assume the vet PG would be on a 1 year deal and probably be a 3 point shooter and therefore probably being a scoring PG type or combo guard so he could also play SG.
Sorry Monster, I can't see how a vet PG makes any sense.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.
.
.
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To be honest i would take rudy over Marv any day.
Why? Not a challenge just would like to hear your thoughts.
Something else to ponder. Rudy (going PC in light of Jason's amusing story which I remember back then) is turning 30 in August.
Also Rudy has played in 7 playoff games. Marvin has played in 49...of course he was also in the east for those appearances but it's something right? :)
More about those playoff performances...
Williams has averaged 7 ppg / 4 reb / 1 ast / 37% fg in those 49 games. He hasn't reached 40% in any of the past 5 playoff trips.
Heck, he shot 28% this past season as his team lost in 7 games. He was a combined 1 - 10 fg for 5 points in losses in Games 6 and 7. Rudy Gay didn't set the world on fire in his only trip... but he did lead his team in scoring for whatever that's worth.
The Grizzlies lost in 7 games to the Clippers as Conley, Randolph and OJ Mayo combined to shoot 6 - 36 fg in Game 7. That was the series I declared OJ Mayo a bum for life.
I'm not advocating for Gay. I think he's flawed. But I also think he's become a convenient scapegoat. He's not a bad player.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.
.
.
.
To be honest i would take rudy over Marv any day.
Why? Not a challenge just would like to hear your thoughts.
Something else to ponder. Rudy (going PC in light of Jason's amusing story which I remember back then) is turning 30 in August.
Also Rudy has played in 7 playoff games. Marvin has played in 49...of course he was also in the east for those appearances but it's something right? :)
More about those playoff performances...
Williams has averaged 7 ppg / 4 reb / 1 ast / 37% fg in those 49 games. He hasn't reached 40% in any of the past 5 playoff trips.
Heck, he shot 28% this past season as his team lost in 7 games. He was a combined 1 - 10 fg for 5 points in losses in Games 6 and 7. Rudy Gay didn't set the world on fire in his only trip... but he did lead his team in scoring for whatever that's worth.
The Grizzlies lost in 7 games to the Clippers as Conley, Randolph and OJ Mayo combined to shoot 6 - 36 fg in Game 7. That was the series I declared OJ Mayo a bum for life.
I'm not advocating for Gay. I think he's flawed. But I also think he's become a convenient scapegoat. He's not a bad player.
Yep that's part of why I added the smoky face at the end. I was hoping someone would bring up Marvins playoff stats.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.
He's probably going to want one more "big" multi-year contract right? The cap is still going to be big next season. I'm not sure about all the guys on the market he'd have to compete with... but wouldn't he garner more from that deal as a soon-to-be 31 year old rather than a soon-to-be-32 year old?
Especially with possible/probable changes to the CBA surely coming...?
The cap may only jump from $94m to $102m.
As far as it pertains to Hetero, I'll put it this way: "Board Favorite" Eric Gordon had a positive PER split at PG, SG, and SF, and was a -72 on a team that was -312. He parlayed that into a $2.25m pay CUT, and that contract has been widely derided as one of the 20 worst contracts handed out in a offseason where the cap jumped 34%.
Now hetero might have a good season, but in '15/'16, he had a positive PER split at two positions (one of which he averaged less than a minute a game), and was a -86 on a team that was -205. Now we have all seen some amazing happen in contract years, but it's not looking good for him to walk away from $14m in a year where the cap might only jump 9%.
And for the Wolves to be stuck with that makes no sense. The Wolves are not a SMALL MARKET team, but they are a LOW REVENUE team, although to be fair, some of that is not their fault.
Eric Gordon just signed a 4 year, $53M contract. I think that's fairly close what Gay (at his current pace) could garner on the open market. So even with a slight paycut, he'd be looking at $40M. Or $50M. Or, $14M.
For a 30/31 year old, he's gonna want to lock in several more years at the highest yearly salary he can get. I imagine that's going to be next offseason. We'll see though.
I'm not saying the Wolves should bring him in.
Yes. Gordon "earned" $15.5m last year, and $53m divided by 4 years is $13.25m. That is a $2.25m pay cut. In a year that the cap jumped from $70m to $94m, or 34%, he took a pay cut. So a older, worse player in a year that the cap only jumps 8%? It shouldn't go well for him.
Don't get me wrong. He has a year to go, and there are still some idiots involved in the NBA, but I don't like his chances. Therefore, I don't like the chances of whomever has him on July 1st, 2017.
I'm not convinced every NBA team is convinced Eric Gordon is the better player.
We can both pick and choose whichever stats we want to try to prove a point... but we know how that goes. Let's just leave the Gordon > Gay discussion up for debate and assume it's not a slam dunk call either way. Gordon, after all, does have a lengthy injury history. And as noted in this thread, there might be a team out there convinced Gay can play the 4. Guys like Harrison Barnes are making about $24M.
Maybe Marvin Williams is a decent comp for Gay? He just signed for 4 year/$54.5M.
All I'm saying is that $14M is nice... but being able to get close to that figure over multiple seasons is a lot better.
Ok, I'll agree with the Gordon/Hetero push. And I think we can both agree that the Gordon benefited greatly from the timing that he IN NO WAY planned for.
But I would argue that I would rather have Williams than Hetero, believing that Williams has had the better career. Yes, ATL screwed up drafting him at #2 that year, but it doesn't make him a Darko/Beasley level bust.
And the timing is the timing, fair or not. A 9% cap jump just isn't the same as a 34% one. I believe he opts in and has a bad '17/'18.
Marvin Williams has had a better career then RUDY GAY?? WOW just WOW.
I would say a different perspective is Marvin Williams is better as a role player than Rudy Gay. Let's be honest for the Wolves right now who would you rather have Marvin Williams or Rudy Gay? Gay is more talented...but that's not always the more valuable player. To be a bit fair to Rudy Gay a lot of his career he has been in situations where the team basically was constructed to have him score. Maybe he is capable of accepting a different role. i just haven't seen that from him. I don't think he is a bad guy he just doesn't have that other gear that you would expect. I don't know how that plays out with him possibly being the 4th banana on this team even if you played him as a starting PF.
I'll add that Wolfson tweeted that the Wolves are looking for a wing or a PG. He said they are looking at bringing in a wing in a trade. I'm not saying That's Gay (doubt it) or maybe Wolfson doesn't have any real good info but I thought it was worth sharing. Some other guys jumped to mind other than Rudy Gay.
Wolfson thinks we need another PG? Seems odd.
No my apologies. To clarify that what he is hearing from his sources that priority is wing and then vet PG. Now a vet Pg does make some sense. Why? Dunn and Tyus are the backups and yeah they have talent but they also have 1 year of experience between them. I would assume the vet PG would be on a 1 year deal and probably be a 3 point shooter and therefore probably being a scoring PG type or combo guard so he could also play SG.
Sorry Monster, I can't see how a vet PG makes any sense.
I'm not saying I would but I can see the logic in it to some extent. I know you are all in on Dunn being a PG and he needs to play there right away so I get where you are coming from. I'd personally rather have a wing. The vet PG market has some guys but nobody that blows me away...that would come here. I spent a bit of time just now reading about Norris Cole. I hadn't heard about how hard he works etc. It seems like with the right role and the right team he could be pretty solid as a backup of some kind. The opportunity doesn't seem good here though with all the guards here and he is still youngish so probably wants some sort of decent shot at some playing time which he should. I wonder if the Cavs have contacted him.
Anywho like I said I'd rather add a wing or at least a guy that's more SG than PG like a Gary Neal that can actually at least handle the ball not just shoot.
Gay is a good player, I just don't see us having anything good to offer. I think the Thunder would be a nice partner for the Kings, provided they decide to give it a go with Westbrook as well.
