Wolves Summer league thread

[Carlos Danger]

Day 6 Grades

http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/17065793/nba-las-vegas-summer-league-grades-day-6

Adreian Payne, Minnesota Timberwolves: B-minus

This is summer league No. 3 for Payne, who has yet to live up to the expectations for him as the No. 15 pick in the 2014 draft. Before Wednesday, it had been a disappointing week for Payne, who was shooting 31.7 percent from the field. This time, he found his touch from midrange to score 20 points on 16 attempts and six free throws despite struggling at times to finish inside. With the Timberwolves adding to their frontcourt by signing Jordan Hill, Payne needs to step up to have a chance at regular minutes.

Tyus Jones, Minnesota Timberwolves: B-plus

Scouts in Las Vegas are torn on Jones. There's a lot of skepticism that he has enough size and athleticism to be a starting point guard in the NBA. Jones is always likely to struggle defensively for those reasons, and he has a tough time finishing around the hoop. But Jones' skills and decision-making give him a chance. Playing point guard full time with Kris Dunn missing a second game with a concussion, Jones had nine assists and just one turnover and made three of his six 3-point attempts (he was a less accurate 2-of-7 inside the arc).

If there was a way to transplant Tyus Jones' head/brain onto Adreian Payne's body....we'd really have something.

Personally I'm done with Payne. I feel like he had his shot last year. I still hold out hope for Tyus. Not so much as a starter or star. But I think he can find a way to stay in the NBA for a nice career as back up. He's still so friggin' young - he could surprise some doubters.

[Volans19]

Day 6 Grades

http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/17065793/nba-las-vegas-summer-league-grades-day-6

Adreian Payne, Minnesota Timberwolves: B-minus

This is summer league No. 3 for Payne, who has yet to live up to the expectations for him as the No. 15 pick in the 2014 draft. Before Wednesday, it had been a disappointing week for Payne, who was shooting 31.7 percent from the field. This time, he found his touch from midrange to score 20 points on 16 attempts and six free throws despite struggling at times to finish inside. With the Timberwolves adding to their frontcourt by signing Jordan Hill, Payne needs to step up to have a chance at regular minutes.

Tyus Jones, Minnesota Timberwolves: B-plus

Scouts in Las Vegas are torn on Jones. There's a lot of skepticism that he has enough size and athleticism to be a starting point guard in the NBA. Jones is always likely to struggle defensively for those reasons, and he has a tough time finishing around the hoop. But Jones' skills and decision-making give him a chance. Playing point guard full time with Kris Dunn missing a second game with a concussion, Jones had nine assists and just one turnover and made three of his six 3-point attempts (he was a less accurate 2-of-7 inside the arc).

If there was a way to transplant Tyus Jones' head/brain onto Adreian Payne's body....we'd really have something.

Personally I'm done with Payne. I feel like he had his shot last year. I still hold out hope for Tyus. Not so much as a starter or star. But I think he can find a way to stay in the NBA for a nice career as back up. He's still so friggin' young - he could surprise some doubters.

I agree Carlos. Payne has worn out his welcome, when we needed a big last season he had the opportunity to state his case and he failed miserably. At 25 he is already older than all of the key members of the roster (Ricky is the same age!) and half as skilled. Time for him to hit the road.

I like Tyus and am curious to see how Thibs utilizes him ( D.J. Augustin, Aaron Brooks, and Nate Robinson all had success as tiny PG's under Thibs). He will struggle to see regular minutes but his place on the roster as a third PG should be secure.

[60WinTim]

Yeah, the Wolves have played two straight decent summer league games. I watched most of today's game. Unlike the first three games, the supporting cast has looked okay -- they actually hit some shots!

So does this mean Kris Dunn does not make his teammates better?!?

~

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yeah, the Wolves have played two straight decent summer league games. I watched most of today's game. Unlike the first three games, the supporting cast has looked okay -- they actually hit some shots!

So does this mean Kris Dunn does not make his teammates better?!?

~

Just watched the replay. Tyus Jones pretty much controlled the game the whole time he was out there, at least offensively. It was the second impressive performance in a row from him. There is something about Tyus and tournaments - the dude just turns it on. He made a tough floater and a couple of FTs late to seal the deal tonight.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Yeah, the Wolves have played two straight decent summer league games. I watched most of today's game. Unlike the first three games, the supporting cast has looked okay -- they actually hit some shots!

So does this mean Kris Dunn does not make his teammates better?!?

~

Just watched the replay. Tyus Jones pretty much controlled the game the whole time he was out there, at least offensively. It was the second impressive performance in a row from him. There is something about Tyus and tournaments - the dude just turns it on. He made a tough floater and a couple of FTs late to seal the deal tonight.

Yeah, just watched portions of it myself and Tyus was terrific. He has such great vision, and his passes are invariably on the money. And with his teammates finally making shots, his assist total was good too...10 against only 2 TOs. I wasn't focused on his defense much so I'm interested in what others saw. He's so fluid running the offense, I'd love to see him get a chance this year.

[Lipoli390]

Tyus has that special quality that makes him better than the sum of his parts. It's the Larry Bird thing. The only stand-out observable physical quality Larry had was good length for his position. Looking at his other physical attributes - speed, hops, quickness, althleticism, strength -- nothing stood out or suggested anything close to an all-star much less hall-of-fame career. Yet, Larry is a hall-of-famer. What made Larry a superstar was, of course, his shooting skill, which he developed with a lot of hard work over a period of years, but it was also a host of other attributes that we often refer to as great instincts and intangibles.

I'm not suggesting that Tyus is on the threshold of a hall-of-fame career or that he's likely to be an all-star caliber player. I'm not even suggesting he'll be a perennial starter. All I'm saying is that some players have certain hard-to-discern qualities that make them dramatically better than their obvious physical attributes would otherwise suggest. Watching Tyus after the all-star break last season and watching him the last two Summer League games, I think Tyus is one of those players. He has vision, instincts, intelligence and an iron will to succeed that, I believe, will make him a very good NBA PG. Starter? Maybe.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Tyus has that special quality that makes him better than the sum of his parts. It's the Larry Bird thing. The only stand-out observable physical quality Larry had was good length for his position. Looking at his other physical attributes - speed, hops, quickness, althleticism, strength, nothing stood out or suggested anything close to an all-star much less hall-of-fame career. Yet, Larry is a hall-of-famer. What made Larry an superstar was, of course, his shooting skill, which he developed with a lot of hard work over a period of years coupled with a host of other attributes that we often refer to as great instincts and intangibles.

I'm not suggesting that Tyus is on the threshold of a hall-of-fame career or that he's likely to be an all-star caliber player. I'm even suggesting he'll be a perennial starter. All I'm saying is that some players have certain hard-to-discern qualities that make them dramatically better than their obviously physical attributes would otherwise suggest. Watching Tyus after the all-star break last season and watching him the last two Summer League games, I think Tyus is one of those players. He has vision, instincts, intelligence and an iron will to succeed that, I believe, will make him a very good NBA PG. Starter? Maybe.

Very well said, Lip...I'm in agreement. So, having said that...if you were Thibs, how would you work Tyus into the rotation? Personally, I envision a 4-man guard rotation with Rush pushed into a 3-point specialist role only...something like:

Rubio 35 Jones 13
LaVine 35 Dunn 13

Now, if Thibs determines that Tyus doesn't cut it defensively, perhaps his rotation is more like this:

Rubio 35 Dunn 13
LaVine 35 Rush 13

Much to sort out before opening night, but I'm reasonably comfortable with either of those options.

[Monster]

Tyus has that special quality that makes him better than the sum of his parts. It's the Larry Bird thing. The only stand-out observable physical quality Larry had was good length for his position. Looking at his other physical attributes - speed, hops, quickness, althleticism, strength, nothing stood out or suggested anything close to an all-star much less hall-of-fame career. Yet, Larry is a hall-of-famer. What made Larry an superstar was, of course, his shooting skill, which he developed with a lot of hard work over a period of years coupled with a host of other attributes that we often refer to as great instincts and intangibles.

I'm not suggesting that Tyus is on the threshold of a hall-of-fame career or that he's likely to be an all-star caliber player. I'm even suggesting he'll be a perennial starter. All I'm saying is that some players have certain hard-to-discern qualities that make them dramatically better than their obviously physical attributes would otherwise suggest. Watching Tyus after the all-star break last season and watching him the last two Summer League games, I think Tyus is one of those players. He has vision, instincts, intelligence and an iron will to succeed that, I believe, will make him a very good NBA PG. Starter? Maybe.

Very well said, Lip...I'm in agreement. So, having said that...if you were Thibs, how would you work Tyus into the rotation? Personally, I envision a 4-man guard rotation with Rush pushed into a 3-point specialist role only...something like:

Rubio 35 Jones 13
LaVine 35 Dunn 13

Now, if Thibs determines that Tyus doesn't cut it defensively, perhaps his rotation is more like this:

Rubio 35 Dunn 13
LaVine 35 Rush 13

Much to sort out before opening night, but I'm reasonably comfortable with either of those options.

There are ways to get Tyus some minutes, but lets remember he is 20. You can still consider him a developmental player. Its possible Thibs brings in a vet that can play some PG yet. That would actually make some sense because of the youth at that spot and whoever comes in would be able to play SG as well.

When I watch Tyus break down a guy off the dribble he reminds me a little of Andre Miller. Miller was old last year never was a top level athlete and even though he looks pretty big he isn't really all that big. There are certain guys that are hard to guard because they don't beat you with flash. They may not be easy to read what they are going to do because they are not predictable and their moves are very good. Guys that can lull you to sleep because they aren't just going to blow past you can be pretty effective. Miller is probably a more fair upside hope but Tyus reminds me a little of Steve Nash also. Don't get me wrong I don't see Tyus reaching that level of player, bu he has the feel of the game and he also has the feel of when to pass and also seems plenty willing to score on you if thats available. Nash could score 10 points drop 15+ assists, but if you weren't going to guard him he would happily drop 25+ points on you. Tyus looks like he can hit 3's at least and he seems to be able to find ways to get off his jump shot. I think its completely fair to have people questioning whether he can make it in this league because of the obvious physical limitations, but at some point I'd rather watch a guy that knows how to play than just some athlete with some decent skills. I found it interesting reading about Ryan Saunders talking about the relationship between him and Tyus. From the insider info Lip has shared it sounds like Ryan has some legit pull in the organization so I think Tyus will get some sort of shot. It feels like anyone that spends any time around Tyus says plenty of positive things about him. I'm interested to see how his career unfolds.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Fair point about Tyus' age and readiness level, monster. It's not inconceivable that Thibs decides during pre-season that neither Dunn nor Jones are ready foe significant backup PG minutes, and finds a vet to back up Ricky and lets Tyus develop in the D League.

I might argue that Tyus is an "old" 20 though. His experience in high-exposure championship games in high school, AAU and college have accelerated his development, and he seems to display much more maturity than the typical 20-year-old. If Thibs finds a very good vet option to back up Ricky, I would not be opposed to Tyus getting some more D League experience. But I am intrigued by the possibility of him starting the season as our backup PG.

At any rate, the extra visibility in SL (primarily due to his efforts) can't be hurting how Thibs perceives him. He gets another shot against Powell, Wright and Toronto Saturday, and I'm looking forward to seeing if he can continue his good play.

[GymRat [enjin:6592663]]

I wanted to bring up a comparison for Tyus that might grow more appropriate over time; Sam Cassell.

The guy just had that clutch factor at the end of games. He had the brass, the game control, the poise. He got better as games went on. He was never a defensive stalwart, and often as he aged he looked more like a detriment, but he had guys like Hakeem and KG backstopping him. Tyus has KAT... and KG! Their measurables are also relatively similar in terms of height and weight, and neither ever was considered a great athlete.

I can't find anything else really about other measurables, but Houston was my favorite team outside of the Wolves/Bulls when I was a kid, so I watched Cassell a lot and I don't think this comp is too outlandish.