Wig signed

[Duke13]

I don't know if anyone read the ESPN article on the warriors and on they became the warriors. Very good article. Talked about how Kerr changed the culture of the team, implementing ball movement and player movement. Not saying that the only way to win but it's working well for them.

Wiggins is the anti-warriors player, he's a ball stopper, and iso player. I don't think teams worry about him beating them. He looks the part but his game is so one dimensional it's crazy. And I think he has the worst hands in the league.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I don't know if anyone read the ESPN article on the warriors and on they became the warriors. Very good article. Talked about how Kerr changed the culture of the team, implementing ball movement and player movement. Not saying that the only way to win but it's working well for them.

Wiggins is the anti-warriors player, he's a ball stopper, and iso player. I don't think teams worry about him beating them. He looks the part but his game is so one dimensional it's crazy. And I think he has the worst hands in the league.

Mmmm, not sure I'd call him a ball stopper. He doesn't dribble endlessly out on the perimeter or hold the ball for a long time sizing up his opponent. He's also a pretty good cutter. He's one dimensional in the sense that right now he's just a scorer, but the way he scores is actually quite versatile. It's just that he's never been able to put together one or two areas that has lifted his efficiency to above league average. Hopefully his 3-ball and FT% improve.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

It was only a matter of time - no surprise. He is now officially overpaid. Hopefully after this season I no longer feel that way.

Well actually he isn't making that big money till the extension kicks in next year so is he overpaid at 7.5 million this year? :)

Good point, but since the money is guaranteed, I think of it as basically kicking in now even though the cash flow doesn't begin until next year. So yeah, he's still overpaid! For the money coming his way, I'd love to see him take his first career charge this year or actually get a floor burn diving after a loose ball.....nah, I won't get my hopes up.

I think you knew I was kidding around. Your point still stands when you look at him next year will you say he is overpaid? In a league of a lot of shorter contracts it feels like having a guy like Wiggins locked up for 6 years.

A couple things that I hold onto even if Wiggins ends up being just a scorer.

He has legit length and high level athletic ability. This isn't 't a Monte Ellis type who is undersized.

He has shown ability to hit 3's. It's not certain he will be league average but his progression is positive.

So it feels likely that Wiggins will be a scorer and has the size and athletic ability to at least be an average defender. That would make a 2 way wing who can really score. Maybe he isn't a star player but that's worth quite a bit. In 3 years he would be 25 with 3 years left on his contract. If a team like the Nets were willing to take on a guy like Crabbe there will be a team happy to acquire Wiggins. How happy (meaning what you could get for him if that's the direction you needed to go?) idk but my most significant concern for these long term contracts is health. If he stays healthy he will be worth a large chunk of his contract.

He deserves your high expectations Q. :)

Yes, DeRozan with a 3-point shot and better defense would be well worth the contract. We'll see.....

[worldK]

I said Wiggins will win the rookie of the year award once he was traded to us.

I said wiggins will be our number 1 scoring option in his 2nd season with us. ( I distinctly remember a poster arguing that kevin martin and not 2nd year wig will be our primary perimeter option that year.)

I will say this now. Wiggins will be worth the contract after the deal is done and he will be a multiple all star by then.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

I wouldn't have offered Wig the max either. Yes he's been durable so far, and I think we're overrating his ppg. Handle, rebounds, overall hustle and leadership isn't there to warrant this offer. But i guess after Embiid got his, it was a little easier for Glen to stomach.

[Lipoli390]

I totally support giving Wiggins the max. His scoring and durability, coupled with his still enormous potential, make him worth it. As a lower-key, humble "get-along" guys, he's also a perfect fit next to two big egos like Butler and KAT. He fits well as our 3rd piece of our core. I've been as vocal as any about concerns that Wiggins might lack the competitive edge and intensity to achieve his potential. But I can't overlook the fact the Thibs continues to rave about Wiggins' competitiveness and drive. He raved again at the press conference announcing the contract, saying that he has witnesses Wiggins competitiveness both coaching him and coaching against him. Thibs isn't the sort to praise players -- publicly or privately. So in spite of what I've seen, I have to give some weight to what Thibs says about Wiggins.

If Wiggins comes anywhere close to his potential while Butler is still in his prime over the next 4 years, then this team will truly be elite.

[Monster]

I totally support giving Wiggins the max. His scoring and durability, coupled with his still enormous potential, make him worth it. As a lower-key, humble "get-along" guys, he's also a perfect fit next to two big egos like Butler and KAT. He fits well as our 3rd piece of our core. I've been as vocal as any about concerns that Wiggins might lack the competitive edge and intensity to achieve his potential. But I can't overlook the fact the Thibs continues to rave about Wiggins' competitiveness and drive. He raved again at the press conference announcing the contract, saying that he has witnesses Wiggins competitiveness both coaching him and coaching against him. Thibs isn't the sort to praise players -- publicly or privately. So in spite of what I've seen, I have to give some weight to what Thibs says about Wiggins.

If Wiggins comes anywhere close to his potential while Butler is still in his prime over the next 4 years, then this team will truly be elite.

Sam Mitchell was on Wolfson's last podcast and It almost sounded like Mitchell wanted to come over the phone and have it out with Wolfson when Doogie kept bringing up Wiggins work ethic etc. Sam said Wiggins KAT and Lavine all put in the work when he was coaching them. Sam has a lot of good things to say but half the time he makes sense and another times he gets so far off on tangents...

[thedoper]

I totally support giving Wiggins the max. His scoring and durability, coupled with his still enormous potential, make him worth it. As a lower-key, humble "get-along" guys, he's also a perfect fit next to two big egos like Butler and KAT. He fits well as our 3rd piece of our core. I've been as vocal as any about concerns that Wiggins might lack the competitive edge and intensity to achieve his potential. But I can't overlook the fact the Thibs continues to rave about Wiggins' competitiveness and drive. He raved again at the press conference announcing the contract, saying that he has witnesses Wiggins competitiveness both coaching him and coaching against him. Thibs isn't the sort to praise players -- publicly or privately. So in spite of what I've seen, I have to give some weight to what Thibs says about Wiggins.

If Wiggins comes anywhere close to his potential while Butler is still in his prime over the next 4 years, then this team will truly be elite.

I heard Doris Burke make a comment about Wiggins saying it's not work ethic but then she brought up motor ;), interpreting the difference more like mental focus and being separate from him being lazy. Personally I do think his lapses on team D have been about mental focus, which to me is to be expected with a young player. As one of the biggest advocates of Wiggins on the board I can concede as much as the next guy we need to see more, even though I agree with Mitchell and Thibs that he has a great work ethic. Obviously I'm glad he's locked up for these next pivotal years. Go wolves.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I totally support giving Wiggins the max. His scoring and durability, coupled with his still enormous potential, make him worth it. As a lower-key, humble "get-along" guys, he's also a perfect fit next to two big egos like Butler and KAT. He fits well as our 3rd piece of our core. I've been as vocal as any about concerns that Wiggins might lack the competitive edge and intensity to achieve his potential. But I can't overlook the fact the Thibs continues to rave about Wiggins' competitiveness and drive. He raved again at the press conference announcing the contract, saying that he has witnesses Wiggins competitiveness both coaching him and coaching against him. Thibs isn't the sort to praise players -- publicly or privately. So in spite of what I've seen, I have to give some weight to what Thibs says about Wiggins.

If Wiggins comes anywhere close to his potential while Butler is still in his prime over the next 4 years, then this team will truly be elite.

I heard Doris Burke make a comment about Wiggins saying it's not work ethic but then she brought up motor ;), interpreting the difference more like mental focus and being separate from him being lazy. Personally I do think his lapses on team D have been about mental focus, which to me is to be expected with a young player. As one of the biggest advocates of Wiggins on the board I can concede as much as the next guy we need to see more, even though I agree with Mitchell and Thibs that he has a great work ethic. Obviously I'm glad he's locked up for these next pivotal years. Go wolves.

Absolutely, this is what I've been saying for some time. Lip and others were even pointing to concerns about his motor just coming out of Kansas, and in a thread earlier this summer I think, several of us went though exactly what the "motor" problem is, and it's between his ears. He's just mentally slow to make decisions that don't involve scoring, and he's just not locked in or driven to do those things, playing with no sense of pride--he plays exactly the same way all the time, there is no extra gear for him. That slowness to make non-scoring decisions is not the sort of thing that improves, and it's exactly why I am very skeptical that he will ever be worth this contract. The scoring is really impressive, but he is essentially worse than average for everything else and I don't see that improving. Advanced stat guys call him the absolute worst defender in the league. His value added WARP-type stats are all horrible. That's just not the sort of player you pay the max to.

Edit: bold added on March 2, 2019.

[Lipoli390]

Yes, it's the motor, not his work ethic. Reviews coming out of college, his NBA stats to date and my own eye-test suggest that Wiggins is lacking a degree of mental focus or intensity that any great player has to have. But Thibs has seen a lot more of Wiggins than any of us -- up close -- and he has gone out of his way to praise Andrew's competitiveness. That's why I haven't given up yet on the possibility that Wiggins can eventually come close to achieving his elite potential.

The phase Thibs has used a lot to describe Butler is "multiple-effort." He has referred a lot to Butler as a multiple effort guy. He used the same phrase to describe Taj. I know exactly what Thibs means. It's that competitiveness and intensity that drives a player to go up in a crowd for a rebound, follow up his missed shot by crashing the boards to put up another shot, and chase down loose balls even if it means hitting the floor and losing some skin. Those are the things you see Butler do repeatedly. Note that Gorgui and Bazz do those things a lot too. I've seen flashes of those things from Wiggins in the few preseason games this year. Those are the things I'll be looking for from him far more this season. I know that some are convinced we'll never see those things much if at all from Wiggins. I still believe we might.