AbeVigodaLive wrote:If the Wolves are building toward the future with Tyus Jones and Josh Okogie as two of the most important "building blocks"... we're fucked.
Now don't get me wrong, I like both of them for various reasons.
But look around the league and find me another team with any sort of promise whatsoever that's pointing to players like Tyus Jones and Josh Okogie as key building blocks.
PER 36:
12.0 ppg / 36.4% fg
9.6 ppg / 38.0% fg
Don't disagree, but we've talked often about team defense being a bit of a wildcard that can lift a seemingly "meh" roster to relevancy (e.g. Indiana). Tyus is a plus team defender and Okogie looks to be on his way. For that reason alone, they can contribute to a winning organization without putting up a bunch of sexy numbers. But yeah.....you need to squint REALLY hard to see any two-way stars in the offing.
I don't see Tyus or Saric becoming stars or elite 2-way players. But both can be very good and important building blocks for the Wolves going forward. I don't have a hard time seeing Okogie becoming a star. His athleticism, freakish length and competitive drive give him the basic tools to become great. He's actually a good ballhandler and good passer as well. And what gets overlooked sometimes is appears to be a high basketball IQ. Yes, he makes rookie mistakes that sometimes flow from his high-octane motor. But he has a good feel for the game. His Achilles so far is his shooting. But I just harken back to his college shooting stats, which are nearly identical to Donovan Mitchell's college shooting stats, except that Okogie was a better 3-point shooter. Don't get me wrong. I'm not predicting Okogie will become a star. Based on his stats this season, I wouldn't bet a lot of money on him becoming a star. But I can still envision him becoming one and I don't think that's too much of a stretch.
Bottom line is this. The Wolves will go nowhere and KAT will be pushing for a trade in 3-4 years if the Wolves don't pair him with another star. Wiggins will NEVER be that second star. If Okogie doesn't develop into a star, then the Wolves will have to draft one because we'll never land one in a trade or free agency. As much as I think Okogie CAN become a star, I wouldn't put all my marbles in that bucket. That's why it's imperative that the Wolves stop striving to make the playoffs this season and focus on playing the young guys, including Okogie, Tyus, Saric and even KDB. Not only will that give us a better sense of what we have in our young guys, it will likely improve our draft position.
Lip you mentioned Saric as a guy that can be a building block and I think he has a chance to be something of a Covington type guy that is pretty valueable. We don't know if he will actually be that guy but there is a lot there. On a recent Wolves podcast someone mentioned they asked Taj about how Mirotic Belly and Saric compared as stretch bigs. He said Saric does compare to those guys being able to stretch the floor but Saric is more of a dog meaning a guybthat really gets after it. I thought that was pretty interesting. Also I just finally read Jon K's story on the Athletic about Taj and Saric and he reported the Wolves actually made an effort to find a contender that wanted Taj so he could be a part of a long playoff run.
Monster - I saw Taj interviewed after tonight's game. He said Saric is very talented. He went on to say that Saric is a player who can score 40 points in a game - "he's that talented." That's high praise from a vet who doesn't tend to speak in hyperbolic terms. Saunders, in his post-game interview tonight, referred to Saric as one of the team's building blocks going forward.
Duke13 wrote:I listened to quite a few national NBA podcasts regularly, a lot of focus on the deadline. Not once did I hear Taj's name. Deductive reasoning I guess.
That's fair. I also think it's fair to assume that teams would be very interested in a guy like Taj who arguably is putting up maybe the best statistical season or one of the best of his career. I think the contract/money held back a deal more than whether or not teams were interested. Jon K and Wolfson both said Taj is valued pretty highly around the league. I believe Bobby Marks said so as well.
Regardless...it leads to the same end he is here for the rest of the year and that's not a bad thing. I think it will be really interesting to see what kind of market there is for him this summer. It's gonna be a weird one. I think some guys should jump at a decent deal if it's offered...and IMO Taj is in that group.
I agree, Monster. I think Taj is highly valued around the League. I suspect he'll get a decent contract offer from a contending team -- but not $14 million per year. Some team will offer their MLE or a portion thereof on a 2-3 year deal and he'll leave. My problem is that the Wolves are going to continue to win games like tonight's because of solid vets like Taj, Tolliver and Rose -- all guys likely to leave after this season. Teague will probably be around one more season, then he's likely to leave. Winning based on the play of guys likely to leave is a bad long-term strategy. But I'll admit, it's fun to watch the team win and maybe make a run at that 8th seed. It's just not in the long-term best interest of the franchise and that's what frustrates me.
Starting to hitch the wagon to Darius Garland as THE guy I want for the Wolves this summer. There's a group of players I'd be happy with, but Garland looks like he could be special. Best handle in the class and one of the better shot-makers to boot. Shifty, quick, and creative; has plenty of wiggle in his game. Not an explosive athlete or imposing physically, but you watch him and get the sense that he's vastly superior to his peers. Season-ending injury has left him slept on and perhaps might allow him to fall to a spot where the Wolves can snag him.
Camden wrote:Starting to hitch the wagon to Darius Garland as THE guy I want for the Wolves this summer. There's a group of players I'd be happy with, but Garland looks like he could be special. Best handle in the class and one of the better shot-makers to boot. Shifty, quick, and creative; has plenty of wiggle in his game. Not an explosive athlete or imposing physically, but you watch him and get the sense that he's vastly superior to his peers. Season-ending injury has left him slept on and perhaps might allow him to fall to a spot where the Wolves can snag him.
I looked up his basic stats and watched highlights of a game where he scored 33. If you don't mind I want to ask some questions that hopefully are meant to add to you giving more info on what you like about him. A shot crating very good shooting PG sounds so good.
Is he a scorer or can he actually play PG?
Is he a guy that can actually help Towns Or just do his thing? We need another really good shot creator but I would hope for a guy that can play with Towns...I mean that should be easy but I think you know what I mean.
What kind of a shooter is? I saw him take and make some pretty deep 3's.
Defense?
Does he smile or take the game serious? That one is for Lip. =)
Duke13 wrote:I listened to quite a few national NBA podcasts regularly, a lot of focus on the deadline. Not once did I hear Taj's name. Deductive reasoning I guess.
That's fair. I also think it's fair to assume that teams would be very interested in a guy like Taj who arguably is putting up maybe the best statistical season or one of the best of his career. I think the contract/money held back a deal more than whether or not teams were interested. Jon K and Wolfson both said Taj is valued pretty highly around the league. I believe Bobby Marks said so as well.
Regardless...it leads to the same end he is here for the rest of the year and that's not a bad thing. I think it will be really interesting to see what kind of market there is for him this summer. It's gonna be a weird one. I think some guys should jump at a decent deal if it's offered...and IMO Taj is in that group.
I agree, Monster. I think Taj is highly valued around the League. I suspect he'll get a decent contract offer from a contending team -- but not $14 million per year. Some team will offer their MLE or a portion thereof on a 2-3 year deal and he'll leave. My problem is that the Wolves are going to continue to win games like tonight's because of solid vets like Taj, Tolliver and Rose -- all guys likely to leave after this season. Teague will probably be around one more season, then he's likely to leave. Winning based on the play of guys likely to leave is a bad long-term strategy. But I'll admit, it's fun to watch the team win and maybe make a run at that 8th seed. It's just not in the long-term best interest of the franchise and that's what frustrates me.
I think if some team offers Taj like 7 million a year he should take it. Its kinda weird to say but I don't think there is a space on this roster for Taj next year...If we didn't have Dieng then sure but I wouldn't mind paying him say 6 million a year or even less. I think he might be open to something like that depending on what over offers are out there. It only takes one team...
As for the vets and winning games...Lets be real. The wolves botched a couple games with the vets and then won a couple games that we weren't exactly expecting to win. We just beat a Knicks team that kinda sucks and would really suck if they didn't have D. Jordon playing us especially without Towns and Dieng. I finally looked up the 2nd round picks Dallas had available for a Tolliver deal. They have 2019 and 2020 picks dealt already. That means the pick likely would have been the best of the Warriors and Rockets. Ok that's better than nothing. Its easy to sit here and say yeah lets do that deal we aren't going to the playoffs anyway. Meanwhile Layden and the Wolves are doing a job they want to win game and the owner probably doesn't just want to suck either. Dallas is a team you are still fighting for a spot in the playoffs...I think its a more difficult conversation than we sometimes make it out to be. I wanted to move Tolliver too and if that deal was on the table Tolliver and expiring/s sure but we don't know all the factors they considered either.
To me the more missed opportunity of not doing a Tolliver deal is more about they could have brought in a guy they thought could help beyond this season even a guy more of 26-28 year old guy that could maybe be a decent rotation player if they didn't want to go with a more young guy. If we see KBD and Terrell get some run here and there it would help ease some of this. Meanwhile I think a guy like Deng being on the team and contributing now could help the team for a couple years down the road both as an actual player and as a guy to help younger players. I do think having some trusted vets still matters and likely a couple of the vets on this team will be gone. IF Ryan is retained it will be interesting if both Deng and Rose (MAYBE even Taj) come back (and not for break the bank deals) because of Ryan. It may end up not meaning much but I think it could be a positive for assessing Ryan going forward. I also continue to think Ryan can get a more enjoyable version of Teague since we are likely stuck with him anyway. I'm stupidly looking forward to how it turns out...sorta... lol
Doesn't Cassius Winston need to be in the debate? He reminds me of a crafty, throw-back player. Not terribly athletic....but man, the dude just makes plays and can absolutely shoot the lights out. I think he will certainly be exposed on defense in the NBA, but he also checks the box for play maker and shooter for Wolves.
